Schools simply do not teach writing any more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools also don't teach math, languages or geography. What do they teach?

My kid spend 1-2 hours on math strategies, and an hour in class reading for pleasure and an hour writing (creatively and about the book she’s reading). And that’s her day, plus lunch, recess and PE/specials. No social studies/Geography or science or spelling, grammar, vocabulary.

[Anonymous]

It is tragic how so many schools are teaching writing. There is a popular program that many schools use called Lucy Calkins Writing Workshop. A typical day would be the teacher reads a book to the student or does a 10 minute mini-lesson, then the students "write, write, write" for 30 to 35 minutes, then they share what they have written. Students are told not to worry about spelling, grammar, punctuation when they write. It is more important to just get ideas on the paper. If a teacher walks by and sees a 2nd or 3rd grade student write something like this:

Nowe I am going to tel you about my cat it is the best cat in the werld and my cat is soooooooo ahsome wen it comes and plays with me do you want to see my cat your going to realy like him!!!!!!!!!!!

the teacher will not immediately correct any of the errors. The student will continue to fill the page making mistake after mistake. Then the last five minutes they might do peer editing. Teachers are told not to discourage students or crush their "self-expression". What is important is the student is filling the entire page and writing about an authentic experience. Wow, the student is now an "author".
Now imagine writing like that day after day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is tragic how so many schools are teaching writing. There is a popular program that many schools use called Lucy Calkins Writing Workshop. A typical day would be the teacher reads a book to the student or does a 10 minute mini-lesson, then the students "write, write, write" for 30 to 35 minutes, then they share what they have written. Students are told not to worry about spelling, grammar, punctuation when they write. It is more important to just get ideas on the paper. If a teacher walks by and sees a 2nd or 3rd grade student write something like this:

Nowe I am going to tel you about my cat it is the best cat in the werld and my cat is soooooooo ahsome wen it comes and plays with me do you want to see my cat your going to realy like him!!!!!!!!!!!

the teacher will not immediately correct any of the errors. The student will continue to fill the page making mistake after mistake. Then the last five minutes they might do peer editing. Teachers are told not to discourage students or crush their "self-expression". What is important is the student is filling the entire page and writing about an authentic experience. Wow, the student is now an "author".
Now imagine writing like that day after day.

Yes! I’m the PP above you and my child’s school uses that program. They call it reading writing workshop. And that’s allllllll they do all day long. Every day. It’s the weirdest experience that in education. But the principal and administrators love it. Which confuses me. There just be something good about it?? But, I see zero improvement in my child and she’s hungry to learn about other stuff!

[Anonymous]

I’m so sorry for typos 😬 ^^

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is tragic how so many schools are teaching writing. There is a popular program that many schools use called Lucy Calkins Writing Workshop. A typical day would be the teacher reads a book to the student or does a 10 minute mini-lesson, then the students "write, write, write" for 30 to 35 minutes, then they share what they have written. Students are told not to worry about spelling, grammar, punctuation when they write. It is more important to just get ideas on the paper. If a teacher walks by and sees a 2nd or 3rd grade student write something like this:

Nowe I am going to tel you about my cat it is the best cat in the werld and my cat is soooooooo ahsome wen it comes and plays with me do you want to see my cat your going to realy like him!!!!!!!!!!!

the teacher will not immediately correct any of the errors. The student will continue to fill the page making mistake after mistake. Then the last five minutes they might do peer editing. Teachers are told not to discourage students or crush their "self-expression". What is important is the student is filling the entire page and writing about an authentic experience. Wow, the student is now an "author".
Now imagine writing like that day after day.

Yes! I’m the PP above you and my child’s school uses that program. They call it reading writing workshop. And that’s allllllll they do all day long. Every day. It’s the weirdest experience that in education. But the principal and administrators love it. Which confuses me. There just be something good about it?? But, I see zero improvement in my child and she’s hungry to learn about other stuff!

What they love about it is that it is easy for them. So great that the best approach for kids is also the easiest for teachers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re looking for a supplement and don’t mind Mennonite content, Rod and Staff publishes VERY thorough grammar books for grades 2-10. They are cheap (around $10) and really well done, covering things like writing from notes, outlining, poetry as well as diagramming, parts of speech, verb tenses, etc.

You can view samples and purchase at milestonebooks.com.

My kid is similar to yours and having explicit grammar instruction really helped because then I could say, “you need an active verb instead of a participle” and she would get it and make the change, rather than relying on “that doesn’t sound right, does it?” which did not always work for my kid.

Alternatively if you plan for your child to take an inflected language (Latin, Russian, Ancient Greek) in middle and high school, they will learn more than anyone ever wanted to know about grammar because all the words in the sentence change based on their role in the sentence - so that may help too if you want to wait a bit.

OP here. I'm Eastern European and grammar was drilled into us the entire time we were in school. Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitely check it out. I have to bridge the gap somehow.

I am using rod and staff right now with my 4th and 1st graders. It’s very thorough. My 4th Fraser is diagramming sentences. The daily lessons are very efficient and very Mennonite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you’re looking for a supplement and don’t mind Mennonite content, Rod and Staff publishes VERY thorough grammar books for grades 2-10. They are cheap (around $10) and really well done, covering things like writing from notes, outlining, poetry as well as diagramming, parts of speech, verb tenses, etc.

You can view samples and purchase at milestonebooks.com.

My kid is similar to yours and having explicit grammar instruction really helped because then I could say, “you need an active verb instead of a participle” and she would get it and make the change, rather than relying on “that doesn’t sound right, does it?” which did not always work for my kid.

Alternatively if you plan for your child to take an inflected language (Latin, Russian, Ancient Greek) in middle and high school, they will learn more than anyone ever wanted to know about grammar because all the words in the sentence change based on their role in the sentence - so that may help too if you want to wait a bit.

OP here. I'm Eastern European and grammar was drilled into us the entire time we were in school. Thank you for the suggestions. I will definitely check it out. I have to bridge the gap somehow.

I am using rod and staff right now with my 4th and 1st graders. It’s very thorough. My 4th Fraser is diagramming sentences. The daily lessons are very efficient and very Mennonite.

I’m on my phone and used very two too many times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That is not the case in our DCPS school. 4th grade.

Agreed. Quite a lot of grammar in 3rd.

[Anonymous]

I was surprised at the amount of "free independent reading" in my dc FCPS elementary school. A whole hour each morning and another 20 minutes in the afternoon. That's a lot of instructional time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why everyone should read A Well Trained Mind by Susan Wise Bauer - even if your children are in public school. The Romans discovered the Trivium - grammar stage, logic stage and rhetoric stage. It was abandoned during WW1 because the teaching profession didn’t thing immigrant children needed a classical education. Seems things haven’t changed much, eh? Elements of the grammar stage still were in schools in the 1970s public schools (as well as direct instruction). This has all been abandoned for decades and replaced with the latest educational fads - and needs to come back. The latest brain research has proven the Romans correct.

This is fascinating to me. As I mentioned above, I grew up in Eastern Europe during the communist time and received an excellent education. It was very classing in the sense that you had to simply memorize a lot of things. We had to memorize an entire poem every week and recite it in front of the whole class. I still remember my mom drilling me every week to make sure I learned it. I STILL remember some poems. We had to memorize multiplication and division, grammar rules, etc. I learned two alphabets in first grade and cursive. Our children are capable of so much more than the schools are offering them these days.

Catholic schools still use a more classical approach. I taught High school as a special
education teacher and I was an administrator at classical school for 1 year. CE is a game changer for kids—all kids. The language development in the grammar stage is amazing.

[Anonymous]

I have worked in schools and seen the havoc this benevolent neglect wreaks. In my reading groups, I taught grammar and refused to post any assignment that had not been rewritten to my exacting standards. Having a piece on the wall in my classroom was an achievement, not a reward for breathing and sitting in a chair. I also correct any student who brags about having good writing skills because virtually none of them do. Students today have been victimized by our culture of unearned praise. Many believe that the purpose of school is "to have fun." I disabuse them of that notion on the first day of school. Poetry, philosophy, and history can be understood and discussed by young children as Marva Collins proved when working with students who came from underprivileged backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

That’s not even writing. That’s grammar. I’m a high school teacher. I do teach writing. The problem is the massive focus on STEM means many parents and kids don’t see the value in teaching writing as a craft. They think “my kid knows how to read and write” and encourage all effort goes into math and science classes . Kids toss off a crappy draft and want to be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is tragic how so many schools are teaching writing. There is a popular program that many schools use called Lucy Calkins Writing Workshop. A typical day would be the teacher reads a book to the student or does a 10 minute mini-lesson, then the students "write, write, write" for 30 to 35 minutes, then they share what they have written. Students are told not to worry about spelling, grammar, punctuation when they write. It is more important to just get ideas on the paper. If a teacher walks by and sees a 2nd or 3rd grade student write something like this:

Nowe I am going to tel you about my cat it is the best cat in the werld and my cat is soooooooo ahsome wen it comes and plays with me do you want to see my cat your going to realy like him!!!!!!!!!!!

the teacher will not immediately correct any of the errors. The student will continue to fill the page making mistake after mistake. Then the last five minutes they might do peer editing. Teachers are told not to discourage students or crush their "self-expression". What is important is the student is filling the entire page and writing about an authentic experience. Wow, the student is now an "author".
Now imagine writing like that day after day.

Yes! I’m the PP above you and my child’s school uses that program. They call it reading writing workshop. And that’s allllllll they do all day long. Every day. It’s the weirdest experience that in education. But the principal and administrators love it. Which confuses me. There just be something good about it?? But, I see zero improvement in my child and she’s hungry to learn about other stuff!

What they love about it is that it is easy for them. So great that the best approach for kids is also the easiest for teachers!

NP here. It's probably both easy and hard for teachers. Easy because being so focused on fluency, there's little direct instruction in language mechanics. But the projects are time consuming and hard to fit it in, if it's an add-on to an existing curriculum. Our MCPS elementary flirted with Lucy Calkins while we were still on Curriculum 2.0. Thank goodness that when the new Benchmark Advance curriculum was rolled out, they dropped LC for lack of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked in schools and seen the havoc this benevolent neglect wreaks. In my reading groups, I taught grammar and refused to post any assignment that had not been rewritten to my exacting standards. Having a piece on the wall in my classroom was an achievement, not a reward for breathing and sitting in a chair. I also correct any student who brags about having good writing skills because virtually none of them do. Students today have been victimized by our culture of unearned praise. Many believe that the purpose of school is "to have fun." I disabuse them of that notion on the first day of school. Poetry, philosophy, and history can be understood and discussed by young children as Marva Collins proved when working with students who came from underprivileged backgrounds.

OP here, I completely agree with you. I think the first few years of elementary school should be nothing more than grammar, handwriting, and memorization. There is plenty of time later in middle school to teach them history, social studies, etc. They don't understand that stuff in second grade anyway. Sure, they learn about MLK, but none of them understand the importance of what he did. So teach them how to write properly in elementary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That’s not even writing. That’s grammar. I’m a high school teacher. I do teach writing. The problem is the massive focus on STEM means many parents and kids don’t see the value in teaching writing as a craft. They think “my kid knows how to read and write” and encourage all effort goes into math and science classes . Kids toss off a crappy draft and want to be done.

I work in STEM. Writing skills are still required, including the basics.

The book “The Math Myth” does an excellent job explaining why the STEM focus does a disservice to every area of learning.