Schools simply do not teach writing any more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. Have them read more challenging books and over time it should self correct.

Believing that elementary school kids can induce basic principles of Language Arts from lots of examples is what caused this trend. It will not fix it.

I agree. But some posters on this thread will probably say that failure to induce principles of Language Arts from lots of examples are a sign the child should be tested for special needs.

Well, and that also assumes kids are getting assigned challenging books. My child in a supposedly good public middle school wasn't actually assigned books to read in middle school. It was all short stories and excerpts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach writing and I’m a teacher in my twenties. I was also taught writing from elementary school through college. I attended public school. I don’t know why you don’t think your child hasn’t received any instruction in writing. I think it’s more likely that your child doesn’t enjoy it and doesn’t pay attention. At a fifth grade level he should be able to write a paragraph, yes. It seems like he needs some additional scaffolds, like a graphic organizer. Some kids get overwhelmed and need help organizing their ideas. I would reach out to his teacher with some specific questions about his needs and possible supports (ex I noticed he has trouble coming up with a topic sentence, he doesn’t know how to maintain parallel structure, he doesn’t consistently write full sentences, etc).

With all due respect, I am sick and tired of teachers throwing graphic organizers at him saying that's all he needs. You should know as a teacher that a graphic organizer will do nothing for him if he doesn't know basic sentence structure and spelling. You are right that he doesn't enjoy it, but one reason for that that he is really unsure of himself and doesn't know what to do. Who would enjoy it in that case? He is a hard worker, above-average reader, and great in math. By all means, he should be able to write. The school has failed him.

+1 Former teacher here and PP is spot on. I have seen this so many times. Especially with boys, though not exclusively. Writing teacher in your twenties, when over half the class needs the supports you describe, it's a sign that the curriculum needed to do more explicit teaching in these areas.

I teach special education so of course they need supports-you don’t need to be snarky about it. It does sound like your son has some kind of issue if he’s so unsure that he can’t even write a sentence as a fifth grader. I wasn’t aware it was that much of a problem from your original post. Perhaps you should have him evaluated for dysgraphia. I thought you were saying he has trouble organizing ideas in a longer piece of writing. Writing a single word or sentence should not be such a labor at that age, to be frank.
I gave you honest advice-there’s a reason teachers roll their eyes at you when you ask for something. You should probably teach him to ask for help instead of being rude to other people. A little respect goes a long way.

What are you even talking about? I suggest you listen to the parents when they are telling you things are not working. Do you think this is the first time I'm asking for help for him? I have been offered graphic organizers for him since 2nd grade. Quite frankly, giving him a sheet of paper and saying "good luck" is a lot easier than teaching him. Do you not think I've been brushed off by many 20-year olds who just started to teach and think they have the answers to everything. Let me know when you gain some experience teaching and then we can have a real conversation.

I am stating the facts. Schools are failing our children. I'm not saying it's your fault as a teacher. You do what your district tells you to do. You follow the rules. I get it. I also know what I got as a child at school and what my child is not getting today.

Actually, it isn’t a fact that schools are failing children. Your child should be evaluated if he can’t write a word or a sentence at ten or eleven years old. That is a fact. As someone who works with students with disabilities and has a degree in it, it sounds like you want to blame the school system for a cognitive issue with your child.

Right, half of his class has cognitive issues. Are you always this literal? Because if you are I could totally see how my saying “he can’t write a sentence” would go over your head. Of course what I meant is that he can’t write a sentence that is not a run on sentence without spelling and grammatical mistakes. Of course he can write a sentence. Yes, I will stand by my statements. Apparently many on this thread agree with me. They are not teaching them the basics. There are no spelling tests in DCPS, they are not given any lessons on sentence structure or parts of speech (or at least not nearly enough). So, yes, the school has failed them.

[Anonymous]

Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

Yes. Correct. My parents didn’t teach me to write. My teachers did. I expect the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

No, I want to blame the appropriate people who are in charge of the curriculum.

Come back to me in 20 years when you have something useful to contribute. You are obviously way too green and arrogant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

DP. Wow, this is really obnoxious, and certainly doesn't make you seem credible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

DP. Wow, this is really obnoxious, and certainly doesn't make you seem credible.

Did you read any of the things she said? She has been dismissive and rude to every single suggestion that wasn’t just “teachers are failing my child” hysteria. Her only response to any possible supports for her child was that her own words had been sarcastic. Okay? Then why even post about his difficulties? If you don’t even mean what you’re saying then why even open your mouth?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

DP. Wow, this is really obnoxious, and certainly doesn't make you seem credible.

Did you read any of the things she said? She has been dismissive and rude to every single suggestion that wasn’t just “teachers are failing my child” hysteria. Her only response to any possible supports for her child was that her own words had been sarcastic. Okay? Then why even post about his difficulties? If you don’t even mean what you’re saying then why even open your mouth?

The only suggestion you made was to use a graphic organizer which I repeatedly said doesn’t make difference if your child hasn’t been thought the basics. Graphic organizers are for organizing paragraphs. You, as a teacher should know this. Take this as an opportunity to learn something. BTW just because I’m not agreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m rude. If you are this way with all the parents whose children you teach, I suggest a different profession to you. It’s also the last time I’ll respond to you because it’s taking away from the real discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

DP. Wow, this is really obnoxious, and certainly doesn't make you seem credible.

Did you read any of the things she said? She has been dismissive and rude to every single suggestion that wasn’t just “teachers are failing my child” hysteria. Her only response to any possible supports for her child was that her own words had been sarcastic. Okay? Then why even post about his difficulties? If you don’t even mean what you’re saying then why even open your mouth?

The only suggestion you made was to use a graphic organizer which I repeatedly said doesn’t make difference if your child hasn’t been thought the basics. Graphic organizers are for organizing paragraphs. You, as a teacher should know this. Take this as an opportunity to learn something. BTW just because I’m not agreeing with you doesn’t mean I’m rude. If you are this way with all the parents whose children you teach, I suggest a different profession to you. It’s also the last time I’ll respond to you because it’s taking away from the real discussion.

Oh my god. First the kid can’t write a paragraph, then he struggles to write a single word or sentence. When asked to clarify you get upset and tell me that I shouldn’t take you literally. Maybe your child’s teacher is having a hard time helping your son because you can’t communicate effectively about what your problem is. Work on it. I would assume this has been a problem for years since 11 year olds aren’t just learning to write. You must be well versed in his issues by now, as an attentive and concerned parent, and you’ve been through this with many seasoned professionals.
Have a great night!

[Anonymous]

NP. I agree that schools do not teach writing and grammar. My child also does not read full books; he reads passages. It’s hard to draw conclusions from a single passage without appropriate context that you derive from reading the book from the beginning.

My kid does not benefit from graphic organizers or writing prompts. He just doesn’t know what to do. He is also very literal. He will give you exactly what you ask for. If the prompt is This weekend I.....he will write: slept. If you ask him for more he will and “and ate”. He doesn’t know how to create imagery or ask questions in his head that he should answer for the reader. A graphic organizer helps him sequence his thoughts but that’s about all. He does not learn through reading how to write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh I see! You don’t want help, you want to blame other people for your son’s inability to write. Got it. I’m sure it’s everyone’s fault but your own.

DP. Wow, this is really obnoxious, and certainly doesn't make you seem credible.

Did you read any of the things she said? She has been dismissive and rude to every single suggestion that wasn’t just “teachers are failing my child” hysteria. Her only response to any possible supports for her child was that her own words had been sarcastic. Okay? Then why even post about his difficulties? If you don’t even mean what you’re saying then why even open your mouth?

I have read every single post. She sounds like a worried parent. You sound bizarrely defensive, nasty, and rude. You aren't helping yourself at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. Have them read more challenging books and over time it should self correct.

Believing that elementary school kids can induce basic principles of Language Arts from lots of examples is what caused this trend. It will not fix it.

I agree. But some posters on this thread will probably say that failure to induce principles of Language Arts from lots of examples are a sign the child should be tested for special needs.

Well, and that also assumes kids are getting assigned challenging books. My child in a supposedly good public middle school wasn't actually assigned books to read in middle school. It was all short stories and excerpts.

Writer of the bolded quote above here: I take personal responsibility for getting my kids challenging books. They also listen to and memorize poetry and I read aloud regularly. My oldest was still the worst speller in her class until I started a formal phonics-based spelling program. That assessment isn't just me talking; her teachers brought it up in conferences.

[Anonymous]

+1 for Catholic school. One in Catholic and one in MCPS now. Difference is striking. Wife and I were writing majors (so we feel extremely comfortable with the subject and are assisting the MCPSer.) We can see the difference direct instruction makes with Catholic. If we were to do it all over again Catholic all the way...ah, but we believed the PR from the MCPS when we moved here. My bad - should have done more research on the place - and the importance of curriculum selection.

[Anonymous]

Schools also don't teach math, languages or geography. What do they teach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools also don't teach math, languages or geography. What do they teach?

How to take state tests and use chromebooks.

We are sucking it up and doing private school.