Schools simply do not teach writing any more

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar and parts of speech are pretty easy to supplement with Khan Academy and Bee Star, if you are so inclined.

Yes, I will supplement, but that is not the point. This is the most basic thing that the school should be able to do.

+1

I agree, OP. Too many people are OK with this. Everyone needs to complain because this is the result: it's increases inequity in education.

It's not right! Yes, Catholic schools and private schools still teach parts of speech, grammar and technical aspects of wiring. So those affluent kids are getting a good foundation. Public schools across the country have phased this out, and children who need this foundation most are not getting it.

I can't understand for the life of me, how public schools would let this happen to our kids.

Just wanted to jump in and note that not every Catholic school does this. Just had a major b**** session with my sister and they’re teaching method is exactly the same as our public. I think it depends on the age of the teachers. If their staff is mostly younger and has gotten a degree in Elementary Education, their degree has not taught them how to teach reading or writing. Period. Perhaps some schools force their teachers to learn how to do it the old way, but you need to do due diligence before just switching to a private school expecting a superior experience.

Also agree that the only kids thriving in this environment are the ones getting explicitly taught at home or tutored outside of school. Osmosis doesn’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar and parts of speech are pretty easy to supplement with Khan Academy and Bee Star, if you are so inclined.

Yes, I will supplement, but that is not the point. This is the most basic thing that the school should be able to do.

+1

I agree, OP. Too many people are OK with this. Everyone needs to complain because this is the result: it's increases inequity in education.

It's not right! Yes, Catholic schools and private schools still teach parts of speech, grammar and technical aspects of wiring. So those affluent kids are getting a good foundation. Public schools across the country have phased this out, and children who need this foundation most are not getting it.

I can't understand for the life of me, how public schools would let this happen to our kids.

Just wanted to jump in and note that not every Catholic school does this. Just had a major b**** session with my sister and they’re teaching method is exactly the same as our public. I think it depends on the age of the teachers. If their staff is mostly younger and has gotten a degree in Elementary Education, their degree has not taught them how to teach reading or writing. Period. Perhaps some schools force their teachers to learn how to do it the old way, but you need to do due diligence before just switching to a private school expecting a superior experience.

Also agree that the only kids thriving in this environment are the ones getting explicitly taught at home or tutored outside of school. Osmosis doesn’t work.

Sorry, mean to write “their.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That’s not even writing. That’s grammar. I’m a high school teacher. I do teach writing. The problem is the massive focus on STEM means many parents and kids don’t see the value in teaching writing as a craft. They think “my kid knows how to read and write” and encourage all effort goes into math and science classes . Kids toss off a crappy draft and want to be done.

I work in STEM. Writing skills are still required, including the basics.

The book “The Math Myth” does an excellent job explaining why the STEM focus does a disservice to every area of learning.

Yep, I try telling them that. It falls on deaf ears.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised at the amount of "free independent reading" in my dc FCPS elementary school. A whole hour each morning and another 20 minutes in the afternoon. That's a lot of instructional time.

Yes! Same with my kid and we’re not in DMV. This is happening across the country. It’s absolutely absurd. I’m horrified at what our school districts and principals have done to education in the last few years.

Are there any studies or articles that have been done on this subject raising how this worsens inequity? It’s important it’s framed that way because (1) it’s devastatingly true and (2) that really is an area of concern for school administrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grammar and parts of speech are pretty easy to supplement with Khan Academy and Bee Star, if you are so inclined.

Yes, I will supplement, but that is not the point. This is the most basic thing that the school should be able to do.

The education industry follows whatever trend is fashionable, and the currently the trend is to not explicitly teach most of the basics. The idea is that is better for kids to pick things up naturally, through osmosis. From the school's perspective, this seems to work for many kids. Of course, behind the scenes, the kids for whom this is "working" are generally those whose parents are now either doing the explicit teaching at home or are driving them to one of the many tutoring centers that have opened up since the fad seized hold.

So true!
My son's German teacher spends soooo much time on English grammar. They come into 7th grade with ZERO understanding of parts of speech. She bitched relentlessly about it. Said the trend started about 7 years ago.

Can't learn the rules of a foreign language if you don't know your own.

I spend at least 3hrs a week with my kids on sentence diagramming and critical writing. They hate me.

[Anonymous]

Oh, and "peer editing"! That's my vent. Let's have those who don' know have their papers edited by those who know just as little! Well, at least the teacher doesn't have to do work.

[Anonymous]

Since you now have the opportunity to teach the skills you want them to learn at home, order some workbooks and do it. Don't wait for the teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since you now have the opportunity to teach the skills you want them to learn at home, order some workbooks and do it. Don't wait for the teachers.

All the involved FCPS parents I know already supplement heavily. Our kids will be fine. What about the kids whose parents can’t, won’t, or don’t notice they need to, though? Shouldn’t the teachers and administrators care that what they do doesn’t work?

Having schools closed has allowed me to supplement while working around only 2-3 hours of class instead of 7+bus ride time, and it has been glorious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you now have the opportunity to teach the skills you want them to learn at home, order some workbooks and do it. Don't wait for the teachers.

All the involved FCPS parents I know already supplement heavily. Our kids will be fine. What about the kids whose parents can’t, won’t, or don’t notice they need to, though? Shouldn’t the teachers and administrators care that what they do doesn’t work?

Having schools closed has allowed me to supplement while working around only 2-3 hours of class instead of 7+bus ride time, and it has been glorious.

Why do you assume heavy supplementation by parents can replace a good education in school?

I do not have the confidence that I—as someone who has zero teaching experience—can teach my child the core of what she needs to learn in school. Her education is too important to be left to my own abilities. I would be very scared that I missed something.

We’re paying for private school as a result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and "peer editing"! That's my vent. Let's have those who don' know have their papers edited by those who know just as little! Well, at least the teacher doesn't have to do work.

I’m the teacher who teaches writing and posted last page. Honestly, I gave this a shot but it actually does suck. The kids don’t know how to write which means they don’t know how to instruct others in how to make their writing good. It ends up being a waste of time because they just say useless crap like “I really like it, it’s good.” Nothing meaningful or constructive. I decided halfway through this year I’m cutting peer review next year. MAYBE we can try it in 4th quarter when they’ve gotten my feedback enough to know what to look for but not before then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and "peer editing"! That's my vent. Let's have those who don' know have their papers edited by those who know just as little! Well, at least the teacher doesn't have to do work.

Amen is the worst. The reason for many changes is sociological, the idea being that these methods free up teachers to focus on students who need the most help. Other students are expected to use the resulting "freedom" to develop independence and learn intuitively. Interestingly, many young children are taught the basic elements of organizing a piece -- topic and supporting sentences, etc. -- and different kinds of writing such as persuasive but they are often unable to even shape letters correctly. In many cases they cannot read what they have "written" because it is illegible to everyone. But this is best for everyone. Talking is far more important than listening and learning.

[Anonymous]

To hijack a bit:

I am a non-native speaker, I was never formally trained in English writing, and it shows. I know that writing is essential and I feel helpless in the sense that I can not support my kids. How can I support my child’s writing? Where do I look for tutors, and how do I evaluate their effectiveness?

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since you now have the opportunity to teach the skills you want them to learn at home, order some workbooks and do it. Don't wait for the teachers.

All the involved FCPS parents I know already supplement heavily. Our kids will be fine. What about the kids whose parents can’t, won’t, or don’t notice they need to, though? Shouldn’t the teachers and administrators care that what they do doesn’t work?

Having schools closed has allowed me to supplement while working around only 2-3 hours of class instead of 7+bus ride time, and it has been glorious.

Why do you assume heavy supplementation by parents can replace a good education in school?

I do not have the confidence that I—as someone who has zero teaching experience—can teach my child the core of what she needs to learn in school. Her education is too important to be left to my own abilities. I would be very scared that I missed something.

We’re paying for private school as a result.

Have a look at stats for home schooled kids. I think you will be surprised. I personally would never do it because I think the loss of socialization is too great a price to pay but the academic results can be wonderful. I have said before that this is the way great thinkers were educated for hundreds of years. Governess + music/art/language teachers used to add up to aristocratic education. I consider myself an acolyte of Harold Bloom. The problem is the inferiority of the reading material we give our children these days -- books that do nothing more than reflect their limited understanding of the world and do not challenge them intellectually. It must be easy and contemporary and may not contain any words or phrases they do not already know. Even the language used by characters on Sesame Street 30 years ago would be incomprehensible to most children now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To hijack a bit:

I am a non-native speaker, I was never formally trained in English writing, and it shows. I know that writing is essential and I feel helpless in the sense that I can not support my kids. How can I support my child’s writing? Where do I look for tutors, and how do I evaluate their effectiveness?

Thank you!

I would ask a native speaker for tutor recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To hijack a bit:

I am a non-native speaker, I was never formally trained in English writing, and it shows. I know that writing is essential and I feel helpless in the sense that I can not support my kids. How can I support my child’s writing? Where do I look for tutors, and how do I evaluate their effectiveness?

Thank you!

I am in the same shoes. I get by well enough, but I am not confident about teaching my child.