White privilege and asian-bashing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“White parents were accustomed to having their kids shine at everything without working hard. Then, people came along who worked harder and won everything. Rather than developing a work ethic and investing more time into activities, the white parents complain about Asians prepping and "ruining their children's childhood" with too much school. This sentiment is very obvious if you read the AAP forum. There is a huge cultural divide at play, since Asian families are more impressed by work ethic while white ones are more impressed by natural aptitude. ”

White mom here. Yes you are right. I want my kids to have a childhood that does not feel like drill school. I also am not a fan of travel sports teams for most kids as they seem ridiculous over investment of time/money vs enjoying playing the sport for fun.

I do not want to be in an atmosphere where my kid needs to drill for hours to keep up with the top vs doing a normal amount of work and letting aptitude help them along.

I do not think those other parents are bad parents. I just do not want that environment for my kids. We picked a more “normal” (for America) school zone and are happy with the non-extreme level of competitiveness.

I'm with you except for the part where you seem to think your kids are entitled to be at the top?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This must be somewhere in western Fairfax County. That’s where credentialism is is carried to its most bizarre extremes, both by school obsessed Asians and school obsessed whites.

Right? What is with labeling children by degrees of "giftedness"? That is insane and dehumanizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's not that the classes are harder in response to kids doing cram school, it's that teachers then expect that the students already know the material so don't actually teach it. My kid is bright and doesn't need a lot of teaching but he does need some teaching. Teaching, not reminding.

In that case, you should bash the teachers for not doing their jobs rather than bashing Asian parents. The teachers should cover the materials that they're supposed to cover, and if kids are bored because they've pre-taught themselves the material, that's their problem. Teachers shouldn't be catering to that at the expense of everyone else.

Yup and that's the current state of education today. Multiplication is supposed to be taught in third grade. How are you supposed to teach when 1/3 of the class already knows multiplication 1/3 is actually on grade level and the other 1/3 is behind.

lol. well, it's now time for white parents to whine about the need for "differentiation" in the classroom, except for now they will demand that the middle and bottom get special attention. yes, it will be a challenge for moms to say "Larla is an average learner! she needs a teacher who can differentiate and teach the whole class!"

part of the tiny silver lining of my (white) child having an IEP is that I am outside of the "system" already and have dropped all preconceived notions.

[Anonymous]

“I'm with you except for the part where you seem to think your kids are entitled to be at the top?”

If my kids were normal or low end on picking stuff up I would not expect this. But they “get it” pretty quickly so naturally are at the top - what I object to is the notion that I should have to home school them on top of school in order for them to keep up at the appropriate pace/level for their grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I'm with you except for the part where you seem to think your kids are entitled to be at the top?”

If my kids were normal or low end on picking stuff up I would not expect this. But they “get it” pretty quickly so naturally are at the top - what I object to is the notion that I should have to home school them on top of school in order for them to keep up at the appropriate pace/level for their grade.

so again, you see your kids as naturally entitled to be on top, and those who surpass your kids by working harder are doing something wrong?

interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“I'm with you except for the part where you seem to think your kids are entitled to be at the top?”

If my kids were normal or low end on picking stuff up I would not expect this. But they “get it” pretty quickly so naturally are at the top - what I object to is the notion that I should have to home school them on top of school in order for them to keep up at the appropriate pace/level for their grade.

Are they actually falling behind for their grade, or are they simply not the best in the class? Why do you feel that it's more important to reward natural aptitude, which kids can't control, than it is to reward effort, which they can? Do you think the kids who work harder but wouldn't naturally be at the top need to know their place and stop working so hard so that your kids can win?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I take OP’s point that tying things to race or culture is not necessary. A school can say that they are taking steps to help children avoid stress without indicting Asian-American families in the same statement. The phrase “tiger mom” is so loaded and easily avoided.

I can also understand that a school does see shifting norms, for whatever reasons, and find challenges in responding to those. But schools used to deal with different challenges like seniors having legal access to beer and students taking smoke breaks. Then came cultural shifts like elite athletes coming in fatigued from early morning practice or travel teams. There will always be things happening in the world outside of school that schools need to respond to. I wish administrators had greater emotional intelligence and knew what was out of their control.

In much the same way that varsity sports aren’t for everyone, the spelling or geography bees won’t be appropriate for everyone either. Perhaps the solution isn’t trying to exert more control over others but to create more opportunities for fun competition, akin to JV and club sports. It stinks that we guard these opportunities as if they’re limited resources instead of expanding the opportunities (unless perhaps the point is to sneer at and detract from those we fear may be more talented than ourselves).

NP - Yes, it is unnecessary to tie comments to race, but let's be serious. The comment about immigrants coming from a different system of education is true. It is well documented that many kids suffer from the intense pressure of the educational systems in China, Japan and South Korea (and we could argue about the ultimate educational outcomes of those systems as well.) Parents move here and want to re-create the system that they had at home, and which we as a country have consciously avoided. Those immigrant parents have every right to choose their children's extracurriculars, and to advocate for changes in public school, but the existing population has every right to resist those changes as well. That isn't white privilege (and those resisting may not even be white, they may be second generation Asians, etc.); that is making another judgment about what is valuable for childhood. Not everything is about race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I take OP’s point that tying things to race or culture is not necessary. A school can say that they are taking steps to help children avoid stress without indicting Asian-American families in the same statement. The phrase “tiger mom” is so loaded and easily avoided.

I can also understand that a school does see shifting norms, for whatever reasons, and find challenges in responding to those. But schools used to deal with different challenges like seniors having legal access to beer and students taking smoke breaks. Then came cultural shifts like elite athletes coming in fatigued from early morning practice or travel teams. There will always be things happening in the world outside of school that schools need to respond to. I wish administrators had greater emotional intelligence and knew what was out of their control.

In much the same way that varsity sports aren’t for everyone, the spelling or geography bees won’t be appropriate for everyone either. Perhaps the solution isn’t trying to exert more control over others but to create more opportunities for fun competition, akin to JV and club sports. It stinks that we guard these opportunities as if they’re limited resources instead of expanding the opportunities (unless perhaps the point is to sneer at and detract from those we fear may be more talented than ourselves).

NP - Yes, it is unnecessary to tie comments to race, but let's be serious. The comment about immigrants coming from a different system of education is true. It is well documented that many kids suffer from the intense pressure of the educational systems in China, Japan and South Korea (and we could argue about the ultimate educational outcomes of those systems as well.) Parents move here and want to re-create the system that they had at home, and which we as a country have consciously avoided. Those immigrant parents have every right to choose their children's extracurriculars, and to advocate for changes in public school, but the existing population has every right to resist those changes as well.[b] That isn't white privilege (and those resisting may not even be white, they may be second generation Asians, etc.); that is making another judgment about what is valuable for childhood. Not everything is about race.

Actually, most of these Asian parents have not advocated for change in the public schools. They will not be paid attention to if they do. What they have done is made is also make sure that their children are exposed to better curriculum than what is being offered in the US at home. They are the ones who are doing Singapore Math etc at home, because their kids are bored at school and find it too easy.

There is very little pressure in US schools for academics. This has allowed these students to also excel in extracurriculars, beause they now have lots of time. In sports like swimming, running and golf, those activities that does not require a coach selecting you for the team, but your measurable performance, you will see a lot of Asians participating.

Existing population has resisted any improvement in curriculum or instruction because Larlo and Larla need to have a wonderful American childhood. The beauty of American schools are that most students can do exceedingly well if they have even a little natural talent because the bar is so low. I question why the American students are not doing well if they have natural aptitude. Perhaps there is neither the natural aptitude nor the inclination to work hard. Its a shame because this country is resource rich.

[Anonymous]

Well, there is plenty of advocating for change on DCUM, not to mention lots of nasty comments about "lazy White people" so one can only assume...

[Anonymous]

If you are bothered by what the teachers are saying, you can notify the principal, the PTA and maybe the school board.
It may or may not be well received to criticize the school board but hey, you pointing out what you are hearing/witnessing.

Asians don't spend their time complaining. They may not even know what the heck the comments mean. They know it's a waste of time. They will speak up as a group if necessary but not individually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“White parents were accustomed to having their kids shine at everything without working hard. Then, people came along who worked harder and won everything. Rather than developing a work ethic and investing more time into activities, the white parents complain about Asians prepping and "ruining their children's childhood" with too much school. This sentiment is very obvious if you read the AAP forum. There is a huge cultural divide at play, since Asian families are more impressed by work ethic while white ones are more impressed by natural aptitude. ”

White mom here. Yes you are right. I want my kids to have a childhood that does not feel like drill school. I also am not a fan of travel sports teams for most kids as they seem ridiculous over investment of time/money vs enjoying playing the sport for fun.

I do not want to be in an atmosphere where my kid needs to drill for hours to keep up with the top vs doing a normal amount of work and letting aptitude help them along.

I do not think those other parents are bad parents. I just do not want that environment for my kids. We picked a more “normal” (for America) school zone and are happy with the non-extreme level of competitiveness.

NP here. I agree with you. But, you don't have the right to enforce your standards and your choices on other families. If you want a more relaxed atmosphere, then you should be fine if your child is tracked out of the advanced classes. The advanced classses would be for those children who are advanced. There is room for the advanced classes, the good ahead/at grade level the average and the remedial level. If your atmosphere where children enjoy more of their childhood means that your child is tracked out of the advanced classes, then that is your choice. Those families who want to give their children more tutoring and more educational workouts are no different from the families that want their children to excel at music or sports. There are families who spend a lot of time and money on music instruction to ensure their child makes it into music competitions. There are those who spend time and money on trainers and gym memberships and facilities so that their child can be an advanced skater or track star or football star or gymnastics star.

If you are going to restrict outside training and tutoring in the academics, then you better be prepared to do the same for athletics and artistic training and tutoring. And while I agree that you shouldn't force children into this stressful training and tutoring, I don't agree that you should restrict other families from making those choices. And if that means that your naturally gifted but untutored child falls into the good but not advanced classes, so be it.

What gets me is that the families complaining are ones who have smart or naturally gifted children who they feel entitled to be at the top and in the best classes, and they feel that the top classes and most advanced classes should be defined by their children, not defined by other children who are more educated than theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are bothered by what the teachers are saying, you can notify the principal, the PTA and maybe the school board.
It may or may not be well received to criticize the school board but hey, you pointing out what you are hearing/witnessing.

Asians don't spend their time complaining. They may not even know what the heck the comments mean. They know it's a waste of time. They will speak up as a group if necessary but not individually.

Thank you for that stunningly racist observation.

-Asian mom who has no problem complaining when necessary

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“White parents were accustomed to having their kids shine at everything without working hard. Then, people came along who worked harder and won everything. Rather than developing a work ethic and investing more time into activities, the white parents complain about Asians prepping and "ruining their children's childhood" with too much school. This sentiment is very obvious if you read the AAP forum. There is a huge cultural divide at play, since Asian families are more impressed by work ethic while white ones are more impressed by natural aptitude. ”

White mom here. Yes you are right. I want my kids to have a childhood that does not feel like drill school. I also am not a fan of travel sports teams for most kids as they seem ridiculous over investment of time/money vs enjoying playing the sport for fun.

I do not want to be in an atmosphere where my kid needs to drill for hours to keep up with the top vs doing a normal amount of work and letting aptitude help them along.

I do not think those other parents are bad parents. I just do not want that environment for my kids. We picked a more “normal” (for America) school zone and are happy with the non-extreme level of competitiveness.

NP here. I agree with you. But, you don't have the right to enforce your standards and your choices on other families. If you want a more relaxed atmosphere, then you should be fine if your child is tracked out of the advanced classes. The advanced classses would be for those children who are advanced. There is room for the advanced classes, the good ahead/at grade level the average and the remedial level. If your atmosphere where children enjoy more of their childhood means that your child is tracked out of the advanced classes, then that is your choice. Those families who want to give their children more tutoring and more educational workouts are no different from the families that want their children to excel at music or sports. There are families who spend a lot of time and money on music instruction to ensure their child makes it into music competitions. There are those who spend time and money on trainers and gym memberships and facilities so that their child can be an advanced skater or track star or football star or gymnastics star.

If you are going to restrict outside training and tutoring in the academics, then you better be prepared to do the same for athletics and artistic training and tutoring. And while I agree that you shouldn't force children into this stressful training and tutoring, I don't agree that you should restrict other families from making those choices. And if that means that your naturally gifted but untutored child falls into the good but not advanced classes, so be it.

What gets me is that the families complaining are ones who have smart or naturally gifted children who they feel entitled to be at the top and in the best classes, and they feel that the top classes and most advanced classes should be defined by their children, not defined by other children who are more educated than theirs.

I am not talking about banning those families from supplementing. But the school should not expect - and set advanced class requirements - to align with kids needing to do ridiculous amounts of cramming. Homework yes, studying of course. But not extra schooling at home to the point the kids have a double shift. If that means the kids who are also “home schooling” or study centering on top of the school day are board,well they can stop spending every blessed hour studying or they can go private.

I also strongly agree with a PP above who said that the parents who dislike the shift in school environment have every right to complain. Now that said,again I am the PO that kept this I mind when house hunting and I a happy with where on the spectrum our schools fall in terms of competitiveness vs kids getting to be kids.

[Anonymous]

Slightly off-topic, but I find it hilarious that “equity” in school systems is now this HUGE nation-wide thing, just now when Asians are dominating. Like, no one really cared during the many decades when whites were at the top. Now they’re not so all of a sudden they have to take away the meritocracies and replace them with “equity”

[Anonymous]

The OP's quoted letter has a lot of coded racism in it: "Our community is changing. While we like the new diversity, we will not tolerate the intense pressure being placed on students to succeed."

"Diversity" here is almost certainly a codeword for race. In context, it doesn't make any sense for it to imply economic diversity.

Also, to say "our" in this context seems to imply that the royal "we" are the people who were in the community before it became "diverse", i.e., the white people.

OP, I'd say something to the administration or the like. As someone who is white, you can almost certainly get away with a complaint that an Asian likely couldn't make.

It would have been entirely possible to make the point without any reference to race at all. A perfectly neutral statement would have been something like, "Our community, like many communities in America, is experiencing heightened anxiety about the future professional success of our children in an increasingly competitive and uncertain world. As a result, many parents are placing intense pressure on students to succeed. As educators, we believe that this is unhealthy and wish to discourage this trend."

That's inclusive of a wide range of family backgrounds and has no racial implications whatsoever.