Our school only had one child accepted into AAP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in that area but just mathematically--how can 5 schools worth of second grade kids (600 kids at least?) only have 34 kids total accepted into AAP, but some of these other schools have 30-40 accepted PER SCHOOL? I am not a math person, but the system FCPS is using is not producing equitable results. That's what, 5% eligible vs. 40% eligible?

Since all the files are reviewed centrally and they are actually looking for URM kids (supposedly), what's up with the disparity?

Excellent question. I'm not sure, but I don't think any of the feeder schools in question has a full-time AART. Even the greatest part-time AART is not going to have time to help find the gifted kids if he or she is assigned to 2-3 schools. I also think this leads to issues especially with parents of URM kids not getting enough information about the program, and that those kids' files are probably not as strong as they could be.

In addition, while the AAP centers are obviously trying to diversify, schools that don't have any Level IV services have a vested interest in retaining their highest performing URM kids. There's a weird tension.

My coworker's wife was an AART who just worked at one school and he would always talk about how busy she was. I can't imagine one resource teacher being responsible for two schools (thats like, 1600+ kids for one teacher?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in that area but just mathematically--how can 5 schools worth of second grade kids (600 kids at least?) only have 34 kids total accepted into AAP, but some of these other schools have 30-40 accepted PER SCHOOL? I am not a math person, but the system FCPS is using is not producing equitable results. That's what, 5% eligible vs. 40% eligible?

Since all the files are reviewed centrally and they are actually looking for URM kids (supposedly), what's up with the disparity?

The answer may be, in part, prepping. But I also think that posters underestimate how smart/gifted some families are and overestimate how smart/gifted other families are.

A WISC of 132+ is really unusually bright. Reading this forum may skew perceptions.

I don't get what this means.

It means that gifted kids are not evenly distributed in elementary schools.

Undoubtedly true but not enough for a 40% point spread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it seem like center schools have a lot more of their second graders going into AAP than regular old schools?

Yes. Louise Archer past few years has about 30%-35% of second graders go on to AAP for third. I don’t know if more people refer at center schools, more people prep or what?

I really would love to see some stats on applications. I suspect that more parents refer from Centers because more parents are aware of the program. I suspect that more higher income families parent refer because they want their child in the "best" program or see AAP as a status symbol.

Break out by school, what percent of kids are in-pool based on test scores.
Break out by school, what percent of kids are parent referred.
Break out by school, what percent of kids appeal the decision.

I doubt that we will see those stats because it would more likely point to the fact that higher SES families are engaged and active with AAP and schools associated with high FARM and ESOL rates are not engaged.

Yes, this would be fascinating and eye-opening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it seem like center schools have a lot more of their second graders going into AAP than regular old schools?

Yes. Louise Archer past few years has about 30%-35% of second graders go on to AAP for third. I don’t know if more people refer at center schools, more people prep or what?

I really would love to see some stats on applications. I suspect that more parents refer from Centers because more parents are aware of the program. I suspect that more higher income families parent refer because they want their child in the "best" program or see AAP as a status symbol.

Break out by school, what percent of kids are in-pool based on test scores.
Break out by school, what percent of kids are parent referred.
Break out by school, what percent of kids appeal the decision.

I doubt that we will see those stats because it would more likely point to the fact that higher SES families are engaged and active with AAP and schools associated with high FARM and ESOL rates are not engaged.

Yes, this would be fascinating and eye-opening.

Agree. Is there a way to do a FOIA about this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it seem like center schools have a lot more of their second graders going into AAP than regular old schools?

Yes. Louise Archer past few years has about 30%-35% of second graders go on to AAP for third. I don’t know if more people refer at center schools, more people prep or what?

It’s not like kids at center schools are 40% more likely to be gifted than kids at schools where only one or two kids get in! It makes no sense logically. I had no idea there was such a huge imbalance in numbers of admitted second graders.

Before we moved, we were zoned for a center where there were 3-4 AAP classrooms and just 1-2 GE. If we had stayed, I would have pushed and prepped like hell to get my DC in so they weren’t in the “dumb” classes. That atmosphere was toxic.

Whoa, is this common? AAP shouldn't outnumber gen ed. That is horrible.

At SEES, yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in that area but just mathematically--how can 5 schools worth of second grade kids (600 kids at least?) only have 34 kids total accepted into AAP, but some of these other schools have 30-40 accepted PER SCHOOL? I am not a math person, but the system FCPS is using is not producing equitable results. That's what, 5% eligible vs. 40% eligible?

Since all the files are reviewed centrally and they are actually looking for URM kids (supposedly), what's up with the disparity?

The answer may be, in part, prepping. But I also think that posters underestimate how smart/gifted some families are and overestimate how smart/gifted other families are.

A WISC of 132+ is really unusually bright. Reading this forum may skew perceptions.

Our center school has kids from 4 schools at it (Keene Mill Elementary) and they only have one class per grade. It is the least desirable of the schools that feed to AAP in terms of the principal and general school atmosphere/communication/etc. I don't see any families trying hard to get in there and in fact know several families who chose not to send kids there but to stay in their home school instead.

I think there are a couple things at play, but I do think that parent striving is the biggest factor. I don't know very many families who chose to submit a referral packet after being on the border for test scores. And yes, our AART is not full time at our school AND has been out on maternity leave and has a long-term sub. And I know zero families who paid for outside testing. I bet this is the biggest factor. I have a kid who is very bright but not particularly into schoolwork (like his father!). I have a very strong feeling that he would test high in terms of IQ - both myself and my husband have IQs in the 140s but honestly we are happy with his school and didn't think that he would be ready for the extra work of AAP despite being smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in that area but just mathematically--how can 5 schools worth of second grade kids (600 kids at least?) only have 34 kids total accepted into AAP, but some of these other schools have 30-40 accepted PER SCHOOL? I am not a math person, but the system FCPS is using is not producing equitable results. That's what, 5% eligible vs. 40% eligible?

Since all the files are reviewed centrally and they are actually looking for URM kids (supposedly), what's up with the disparity?

The answer may be, in part, prepping. But I also think that posters underestimate how smart/gifted some families are and overestimate how smart/gifted other families are.

A WISC of 132+ is really unusually bright. Reading this forum may skew perceptions.

Our center school has kids from 4 schools at it (Keene Mill Elementary) and they only have one class per grade. It is the least desirable of the schools that feed to AAP in terms of the principal and general school atmosphere/communication/etc. I don't see any families trying hard to get in there and in fact know several families who chose not to send kids there but to stay in their home school instead.

I think there are a couple things at play, but I do think that parent striving is the biggest factor. I don't know very many families who chose to submit a referral packet after being on the border for test scores. And yes, our AART is not full time at our school AND has been out on maternity leave and has a long-term sub. And I know zero families who paid for outside testing. I bet this is the biggest factor. I have a kid who is very bright but not particularly into schoolwork (like his father!). I have a very strong feeling that he would test high in terms of IQ - both myself and my husband have IQs in the 140s but honestly we are happy with his school and didn't think that he would be ready for the extra work of AAP despite being smart.

KMES has 5 (or 6) feeder schools and 3 AAP classes and 3 gen ed classes per grade. It is the least desirable center on DCUM, not IRL. It isn't Louise Archer, that's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in that area but just mathematically--how can 5 schools worth of second grade kids (600 kids at least?) only have 34 kids total accepted into AAP, but some of these other schools have 30-40 accepted PER SCHOOL? I am not a math person, but the system FCPS is using is not producing equitable results. That's what, 5% eligible vs. 40% eligible?

Since all the files are reviewed centrally and they are actually looking for URM kids (supposedly), what's up with the disparity?

The answer may be, in part, prepping. But I also think that posters underestimate how smart/gifted some families are and overestimate how smart/gifted other families are.

A WISC of 132+ is really unusually bright. Reading this forum may skew perceptions.

Our center school has kids from 4 schools at it (Keene Mill Elementary) and they only have one class per grade. It is the least desirable of the schools that feed to AAP in terms of the principal and general school atmosphere/communication/etc. I don't see any families trying hard to get in there and in fact know several families who chose not to send kids there but to stay in their home school instead.

I think there are a couple things at play, but I do think that parent striving is the biggest factor. I don't know very many families who chose to submit a referral packet after being on the border for test scores. And yes, our AART is not full time at our school AND has been out on maternity leave and has a long-term sub. And I know zero families who paid for outside testing. I bet this is the biggest factor. I have a kid who is very bright but not particularly into schoolwork (like his father!). I have a very strong feeling that he would test high in terms of IQ - both myself and my husband have IQs in the 140s but honestly we are happy with his school and didn't think that he would be ready for the extra work of AAP despite being smart.

KMES has 5 (or 6) feeder schools and 3 AAP classes and 3 gen ed classes per grade. It is the least desirable center on DCUM, not IRL. It isn't Louise Archer, that's true.

I don't know anything about either school but it sounds like from this thread that the Bull Run AAP center is pretty undesirable as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't live in that area but just mathematically--how can 5 schools worth of second grade kids (600 kids at least?) only have 34 kids total accepted into AAP, but some of these other schools have 30-40 accepted PER SCHOOL? I am not a math person, but the system FCPS is using is not producing equitable results. That's what, 5% eligible vs. 40% eligible?

Since all the files are reviewed centrally and they are actually looking for URM kids (supposedly), what's up with the disparity?

The answer may be, in part, prepping. But I also think that posters underestimate how smart/gifted some families are and overestimate how smart/gifted other families are.

A WISC of 132+ is really unusually bright. Reading this forum may skew perceptions.

Our center school has kids from 4 schools at it (Keene Mill Elementary) and they only have one class per grade. It is the least desirable of the schools that feed to AAP in terms of the principal and general school atmosphere/communication/etc. I don't see any families trying hard to get in there and in fact know several families who chose not to send kids there but to stay in their home school instead.

I think there are a couple things at play, but I do think that parent striving is the biggest factor. I don't know very many families who chose to submit a referral packet after being on the border for test scores. And yes, our AART is not full time at our school AND has been out on maternity leave and has a long-term sub. And I know zero families who paid for outside testing. I bet this is the biggest factor. I have a kid who is very bright but not particularly into schoolwork (like his father!). I have a very strong feeling that he would test high in terms of IQ - both myself and my husband have IQs in the 140s but honestly we are happy with his school and didn't think that he would be ready for the extra work of AAP despite being smart.

Keene Mill is pretty undesirable. I have one friend whose child went there but she felt very uncomfortable with the whole atmosphere and another friend whose child went for 3rd and 4th grade but disliked it so much the child returned to the home school for 5th and 6th. I think it's more common to apply when your school is a center, even if your child is on the cusp, because you have no big decisions to make and nothing to lose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it seem like center schools have a lot more of their second graders going into AAP than regular old schools?

NP. I'm not sure. My kid is in AAP at Bull Run. Our base school is VRES. I'm pretty sure we send the lion's share of AAP students to that program. It's not a ton of kids, but it's probably 15-20 per grade some years. The kids who are already at Bull Run make up the second-largest chunk. There are some kids wo are found eligible and decide not to go, for various reasons. There are also a lot of kids who live out that way and attend private schools because their parents aren't impressed with the school's offerings for Gen Ed.

It seems kind of dumb that VRES isn't willing to entertain a LLIV center. I'm surprised the people who live in the neighborhood haven't pushed hard for it, since the school's test scores and overall data would definitely look a lot better.

While I would love to see VRES get LLIV, I am not sure the #s are there. My kid in AAP at BRES has approx a dozen kids from VRES for the whole grade, not per AAP classroom. The classes are like 21 and 17 kids per class, so maybe a third is a lion’s share but not sure it justifies a LLIV. I would say though that more at VRES would likely do a LLIV than the center and likely also there are kids ripe for principal placement as well. I hate our center being a “split feeder” though since it means an inconsistent cohort. If we stick with AAP through MS, the kids split for HS and the social implications for that are pretty unfortunate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it seem like center schools have a lot more of their second graders going into AAP than regular old schools?

Yes. Louise Archer past few years has about 30%-35% of second graders go on to AAP for third. I don’t know if more people refer at center schools, more people prep or what?

It’s not like kids at center schools are 40% more likely to be gifted than kids at schools where only one or two kids get in! It makes no sense logically. I had no idea there was such a huge imbalance in numbers of admitted second graders.

Before we moved, we were zoned for a center where there were 3-4 AAP classrooms and just 1-2 GE. If we had stayed, I would have pushed and prepped like hell to get my DC in so they weren’t in the “dumb” classes. That atmosphere was toxic.

Whoa, is this common? AAP shouldn't outnumber gen ed. That is horrible.

At SEES, yes.

We are at a center and I know many people specifically moved to our district because they suspected/expected their kids to be in AAP, either based on what they were already seeing or the fact that the parents were both identified as gifted, and wanted to be at a center school. So I do think center schools attract really smart families. Conversely average families may specifically avoid center schools because they don’t want their kids to be second class citizens.

[Anonymous]

So I do think center schools attract really smart families

Yes, I think this is true. We sought out a center in part because we were fairly sure at least one of our children would get into AAP (and were correct) and that way if the other ones didn't, we wouldn't have to split or make decisions later on. This also required knowledge of the area/system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does it seem like center schools have a lot more of their second graders going into AAP than regular old schools?

NP. I'm not sure. My kid is in AAP at Bull Run. Our base school is VRES. I'm pretty sure we send the lion's share of AAP students to that program. It's not a ton of kids, but it's probably 15-20 per grade some years. The kids who are already at Bull Run make up the second-largest chunk. There are some kids wo are found eligible and decide not to go, for various reasons. There are also a lot of kids who live out that way and attend private schools because their parents aren't impressed with the school's offerings for Gen Ed.

It seems kind of dumb that VRES isn't willing to entertain a LLIV center. I'm surprised the people who live in the neighborhood haven't pushed hard for it, since the school's test scores and overall data would definitely look a lot better.

While I would love to see VRES get LLIV, I am not sure the #s are there. My kid in AAP at BRES has approx a dozen kids from VRES for the whole grade, not per AAP classroom. The classes are like 21 and 17 kids per class, so maybe a third is a lion’s share but not sure it justifies a LLIV. I would say though that more at VRES would likely do a LLIV than the center and likely also there are kids ripe for principal placement as well. I hate our center being a “split feeder” though since it means an inconsistent cohort. If we stick with AAP through MS, the kids split for HS and the social implications for that are pretty unfortunate.

What grade is your child in? Mine’s in third grade at BRES, and says that there are maybe 8 or so VRES kids in her class. Something else to keep in mind is that a bunch of kids opted out. 13, per my math, but chances are, not all of them didn’t come from VRES anyway, so unlikely that BRES can support a LLIV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So I do think center schools attract really smart families

Yes, I think this is true. We sought out a center in part because we were fairly sure at least one of our children would get into AAP (and were correct) and that way if the other ones didn't, we wouldn't have to split or make decisions later on. This also required knowledge of the area/system.

I don’t blame people for doing this, but it puts families who are new to the area and/ or country, and families who can’t afford to be close to one of the “desirable” centers at a huge disadvantage in terms of getting resources. I suspect this is one reason why AAP has ~10% FRM enrollment.

[Anonymous]

It really doesn't . There are tons of services for esl and n
Low income children.