Very young moms and their “research”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are a health practitioner, and need to get over your judgment and generalities, or get out of your profession.

You were once a young, inexperienced person. Maybe you didn’t have the internet and media at your fingertips, which is a game changer for how ANYONE gains information.

Seems to me you and your husband aren’t good health educators, or very good with communicating with your clientele on their level. Of course, based on your dripping with judgement and disdain post, I’m not surprised that you’re that way in real life. They’re not listening and communicating with you honestly because they KNOW you think you’re better than them. Sooner or later, they’ll find other practices, which, the universe willing, they should.

I’ve found the anti-vaxer.

OP doesn’t sound any more judgmental than anyone else who has to deal with people with no education who think they know all.

Yes, even doctors are allowed to be frustrated with their clients. I’m
A teacher and I’m constantly annoyed with parents. It’s frustrating ing when people think they know best, as if my education and experience means nothing.

Can’t imagine how frustrated I’d be if I was a doctor and spent twice as long in school only to have some 22-year-old tell me I was wrong.

Nope. I’m a MUCH older mom, and children are vaccinated for even stuff that many people delay. I got boosters during pregnancy. I follow antibiotics to the T. I understand science. But then again, I was a nurse for years, and now work in a completely unrelated STEM field.

Here’s the thing. Your, and OP’s b is primarily to cOmmunicate and to EDUCATE. You both sound like you’re in the wrong field. No one is telling you you’re wrong, so you need to get TF over your ego, and figure out how to take these people to a higher level of wellness and understanding. It’s your JOB. FWIW, the age discrimination is just annoying, because any client (or patient or student or whatever) falls into the same category of now having the years of education that you do. You ask leading questions, yiu address their concerns, you educate based on that.

This is why med school (and entrance into other professions) should be based on other things purely than just grades. You’re dealing with real people, in real circumstance, at their weakest and most afraid. The fact that you can diagnose and prescribe does not make yiu a good practitioner. A better role may be research.

I think the problem is communication and education from medical personnel can't compete against Dr. Google and social media.

Sure it can. The problem / reality is many doctors fall on to “I am older, come from a better social class, and am more educated than you are, ” and never actually choose to discuss the WHY with their clients.

Why do people keep saying clients? I have never heard a doctor refer to a patient as a client.

And maybe that’s part of the problem with doctor responses on here.

“Patient” is a term that suggests that person should defer to the doctor.

Client puts them on a more equal level, which doctors like the OP don’t prefer. A client is paying you, and can question your expertise, and is involved in their choices.

I know MANY doctors who don’t refer to people as “patients” any more.

Well, I haven’t read this whole thread, and I don’t think it was professional of the OP to post it, but count me in with the paternalistic doctors.

Frankly, I would have done a complete physical exam on that child not treated for strep looking for any bruises or other signs of abuse, then I would have called CPS. I also would have started the paperwork for temporary guardianship in case mom tried to take him out of the hospital and let the poor child get more and more ill at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

The parents of this 14month old would disagree
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kxan.com/amp/news/local/austin/family-of-toddler-who-died-after-dental-visit-files-wrongful-death-lawsuit/994713937

There was no evidence of decay in that poor kids mouth. That dentist was obviously negligent - does not mean no kid should go under anesthesia to be treated.

[Anonymous]

I think people who get worked up about vaccines must not have enough to worry about. I adopted my two kids from a developing nation and, you know what, when they came here, they had a huge amount of vaccinations to get caught up on. You know how I felt about it? Relieved. Relieved that they were finally getting up-to-date, Western, medical care.

I had bigger fish to fry, addressing their other special needs, arranging surgeries, etc. Vaccinations? Must be nice to worry about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You know whats more obnoxious, people like you who criticize everything someone else does. So, you expect people to come in, do as you command and not question or think it through.. hmm... sounds like far worse parenting and neglectful.

False dichotomy.

There's compliant, quiet, and asking no questions, which isn't good for anybody. Things get missed, important questions aren't asked, and nobody can do good work.

There's disruptive, abrasive, and challenging for the sake of being challenging -- not questioning to come to common understanding, but asserting ignorance that people often don't even understand they have. It's challenge for the sake of challenge, debate because it seems to feed something in them to disagree. That can be dealt with, but it's a lot of work and very unpleasant. (If you are just a client in this case, many wouldn't be agreeing to work with you, by the way.)

Then there is a whole range in between, from people with soft-spoken questions, to people who ask for extra time to bring in research material to go over because they really want to understand the why and why not of it. And people who listen to recommendations, and decide otherwise -- but tell you so, and work with you on ways you can agree to make it as safe as possible for the child. And people who bring in a family member who is, say, a retired surgeon, or a midwife, or a physical therapist, or just an advocate, because they want to understand and be understood as clearly as possible. And all of those, and more? That's fine. Really, that's the work. It's a mutual exercise. It goes good places together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

[Anonymous]

Well the one thing I've learned as a RN is not to be afraid to question the doctor. A lot of times they give good rationale for their opinion. Which is exactly what it is, an opinion. That's why when you consult with a second doctor over the topic, it's called a second opinion. Often times they agree but not always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning. Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Making statements like “anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists” DOES NOT invite rational discussion. As a dentist, I am happy to explain treatment options to my patient and discuss what they entail. But when someone comes at me with a statement like that, they are not looking for rational conversation. They are just being an asshole. And I have no patience for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

Got anything to back that up, or is this just you going out on a limb here?

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning.

Can't say I ever saw anyone here or else who purported this. Again, care to point to what you are talking about, or are we going with straw man?

Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

My word, you bring a lot to the table. I do wish you well in finding the people you need to work with you in whatever endeavors arise. I also hope your respect other people's choices as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning. Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

[Anonymous]

I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

OP isn’t a doctor.

And are you even sure the people you saw when you were pregnant were doctors? If you were 25 with a normal pregnancy, you probably saw a nurse with additional training

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

OP isn’t a doctor.

And are you even sure the people you saw when you were pregnant were doctors? If you were 25 with a normal pregnancy, you probably saw a nurse with additional training

I love irony. Way to demonstrate PP's point.