Very young moms and their “research”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

OP isn’t a doctor.

And are you even sure the people you saw when you were pregnant were doctors? If you were 25 with a normal pregnancy, you probably saw a nurse with additional training

I love irony. Way to demonstrate PP's point.

PP here. Haha yes, perfect example.

[Anonymous]

DP. It's also a fair question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

OP isn’t a doctor.

And are you even sure the people you saw when you were pregnant were doctors? If you were 25 with a normal pregnancy, you probably saw a nurse with additional training

I love irony. Way to demonstrate PP's point.

PP here. Haha yes, perfect example.

Well, op, a speech therapist isn’t a doctor. That really isn’t something that’s up for debate. Maybe this is all a perfect example of what this thread is about.

[Anonymous]

^^pp, not op.

[Anonymous]

I’m pro vaccination and pro finishing antibiotics. I also mostly listen to my doctors. But I don’t love doctors and think they can be so condescending.

Doctors follow treatments that are best for 90% of people, and if you’re one of the 10% with an odd, hard to diagnose disease, or that doesn’t respond will to the usual treatments, you’re out of luck with most doctors. Some treat you terribly and tell you some bullshit like it’s all psychosomatic symptoms of depression. People look for diagnoses for years before getting one, all the while doctors treating them like crazy people making it up.

Some doctors also won’t tell you the truth because they don’t trust individuals to weigh risks and make decisions themselves. Like some recommendations about what you can eat, sleep, and do during pregnancy or the insane push for breastfeeding above making sure babies don’t starve and moms aren’t going insane.

Or maybe the doctors are too afraid of being sued and so always give the standard advice only even if it’s not working out.

I also think the discussion of vaccines by doctors is condescending. I don’t agree with anti vaxxers and I don’t think they cause autism. But vaccines do cause plenty of rare complications. There’s a whole schedule in the law to compensate people who have those complications. So yeah, probably what is best for each child is to be the only unvaccinated child in the whole universe of people he or she will ever meet. But that’s not possible and it’s a public good. But all I ever hear about is the safety of vaccines and never that hey, it’s your civil duty to do it, the risks are very rare, so weigh that and don’t be the jerk that causes the poor kid with cancer to die of measles. Instead it’s just it’s perfevtly safe like there’s no trust that we can handle the truth.

[Anonymous]

But all I ever hear about is the safety of vaccines and never that hey, it’s your civil duty to do it, the risks are very rare, so weigh that and don’t be the jerk that causes the poor kid with cancer to die of measles. Instead it’s just it’s perfevtly safe like there’s no trust that we can handle the truth.

But this is pointed out in, I think, every DCUM thread about vaccines. It's also covered on the main webpages from the CDC, the WHO, the AAP, the AAFP, and the FDA.

It's on the standard consent paperwork forms from every place I've ever looked. I doubt you can find a standard vaccine consent form online that doesn't go over the risks as well as the benefits -- that's the point of the paperwork.

How could you never hear about this? I honestly can't comprehend.

If you don't hear it discussed

[Anonymous]

I had my kid at 21 with minimal help from her dad. It was tough. I did overcompensate by trying to make basic and very important decisions on my own, and doing a bunch of research. I simply couldn’t only listen to my parents, their style of parenting is so outdated. I delayed her MMR but she has all of her vaccines. I really was trying my best and even now feel guilty that I wasn’t being a good mom by trying to reserarch everything. I also had her in 2007, at what I think was the beginning of the anti vax.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning. Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

haha! Actually, doctors are more "special" and knowledgable because they paid for a specific education. An education whose schools have very stringent admission standards that the vast majority of people can't meet. My husband is a physician, and in medical school he studied for at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. His work ethic and that of his classmates amazed me. Then in residency and fellowship he worked 80 hours a week receiving hands-on training. You can't replicate that education by reading a couple of articles on the internet. In fact, the vast majority of people are not literate in biomedical science and are unable to correctly read and interpret research studies. This is precisely why uneducated moms shouldn't be "doing their own research." They aren't capable of the critical analysis necessary to understand that Natural News, Mercola.com, and the NVIC are garbage websites that spout inaccurate information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

OP isn’t a doctor.

And are you even sure the people you saw when you were pregnant were doctors? If you were 25 with a normal pregnancy, you probably saw a nurse with additional training

I love irony. Way to demonstrate PP's point.

PP here. Haha yes, perfect example.

Well, op, a speech therapist isn’t a doctor. That really isn’t something that’s up for debate. Maybe this is all a perfect example of what this thread is about.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not appropriate for your DH to discuss patients with you

HIPPA allows for this kind of discussion actually. Assuming names and identifying details are omitted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had my first at 25, by choice (and then #2 at 27). I was married and working on my PhD. I can smell doctors like OP from a mile away, and they're awful. The amount of condescension I got from doctors like her/her husband was incredibly demeaning...I was treated like I was having a baby as a 17 year old high school dropout. OP has no business practicing medicine.

OP isn’t a doctor.

And are you even sure the people you saw when you were pregnant were doctors? If you were 25 with a normal pregnancy, you probably saw a nurse with additional training

I love irony. Way to demonstrate PP's point.

PP here. Haha yes, perfect example.

Well, op, a speech therapist isn’t a doctor. That really isn’t something that’s up for debate. Maybe this is all a perfect example of what this thread is about.

+1

OP identifies herself as not a doctor within the first sentence of the first post of the thread.

Then just six pages later, she's being identified as a doctor, and not just a doctor, but "doctors like [her]"(which would be non-doctors?). And it's getting plus-oned right and left.

Either PP(s) don't understand that speech therapists are not doctors, or they have a rather casual approach to accuracy. Neither should give anyone a lot of confidence in an ability to parse technical information.

[Anonymous]

NP. The funniest thing about OP and her DH's complaint is that doctors are the worst patients. Not young (or old) white mom's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning. Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

haha! Actually, doctors are more "special" and knowledgable because they paid for a specific education. An education whose schools have very stringent admission standards that the vast majority of people can't meet. My husband is a physician, and in medical school he studied for at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. His work ethic and that of his classmates amazed me. Then in residency and fellowship he worked 80 hours a week receiving hands-on training. You can't replicate that education by reading a couple of articles on the internet. In fact, the vast majority of people are not literate in biomedical science and are unable to correctly read and interpret research studies. This is precisely why uneducated moms shouldn't be "doing their own research." They aren't capable of the critical analysis necessary to understand that Natural News, Mercola.com, and the NVIC are garbage websites that spout inaccurate information.

This is it in a nutshell. I absolutely astounds me that people think they actually can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning. Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

haha! Actually, doctors are more "special" and knowledgable because they paid for a specific education. An education whose schools have very stringent admission standards that the vast majority of people can't meet. My husband is a physician, and in medical school he studied for at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. His work ethic and that of his classmates amazed me. Then in residency and fellowship he worked 80 hours a week receiving hands-on training. You can't replicate that education by reading a couple of articles on the internet. In fact, the vast majority of people are not literate in biomedical science and are unable to correctly read and interpret research studies. This is precisely why uneducated moms shouldn't be "doing their own research." They aren't capable of the critical analysis necessary to understand that Natural News, Mercola.com, and the NVIC are garbage websites that spout inaccurate information.

This is it in a nutshell. I absolutely astounds me that people think they actually can.

PP sounds like a deferential SAHM overly impressed by medical school admissions and curricula.

[Anonymous]

I daresay she knows the difference between a doctor and a speech therapist, though.


If you don't have a real concept of how much you don't know, of course you are going to think people who do are overly impressed with actual training and knowledge. You can't see it. Maybe you don't want to, or maybe you are unable.

Doesn't matter. It just means you aren't a good judge of this.