Studies on "integrated schools"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Coleman report is considered the definitive study on these factors. Conducted after the civil rights act of 1964 (and published 12 years after Brown) it looked comprehensively at the factors driving student achievement.

Of all the factors, school composition (racial and socioeconomic ) had the highest relationship.

Whole study: https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED012275.pdf
Relevant summary section: 1.4
Relevant data and how they define: 2.4
Impacts of school composition on student achievement: section 3


Here is an even easier to digest more recent summary of studies from Ohio State: http://www.kirwaninstitute.osu.edu/reports/2009/02_2009_EducationIntegrationBenefitsReport.pdf

I don’t know why I’m doing this - this data and this information has been out there for *50* years. Yet parents have been fighting against this data for *50* years with the anecdotal data and verve we’ve seen on all these threads.

Bumping this based on the request for credible studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2015/04/duke_university_poverty_study_when_rich_and_poor_live_side_by_side_poor.html

SES Integration is a farce it just hinds mediocrity or supplements it until it goes away. Even if it did help a couple of individuals I doesn't move the needle about systemic poverty for those left behind and the backfill.

Also every single study takes poor kids in failing schools and puts them in rich successful schools. MoCo schools are similarly resourced and the poor ones actually have more. You would literally taking kids out of tough situations and putting them in tougher spots with less and expecting them to keep up with the best resourced students in the county. Sure a couple of poor kids would rise to the occasion but poor kids rise to the occasion at their home schools too.

The people clamoring the loudest for mixing of the schools seem to be the same silver spring parents demanding more seats of enrichment at their local schools to make sure their middle class kids get everything they need. What could be fueling them to feel so strongly that putting them in class with mostly other middle class kids would be so enriching? The stench of hypocrisy is strong on this board

All the credible studies disagree, but you're certainly entitled to embrace fringe theories.

Show me one that transfers poor kids from one middle class system school to a different school in the same middle class system. Go for it I’ll wait

Dozens have been linked here in the past few weeks repeatedly. If you haven’t seen then it’s only because you intentionally prefer ignorance. In the unlikely event you are sincere you can easily find them by searching.

I have read them and they are not what you think they are. They are either urban studies or cross systems. But it sounds like you have you mind made up so I am not sure why am bothering. Do you really think sending 75 Latinos and 25 AA to BCC is going to help Kennedy? Or sending 100 white kids to Kennedy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. I was aiming for economic diversity and Damascus at 29% FARMs is at the intermediate level where the FARMs students should be helped being in a diverse school. In addition the 30% AA + Hispanic fraction of Damascus makes it more diverse than any of the W schools. (Although the white fraction at Damascus is high, the Asian fraction is low, so the white + Asian fraction is much lower than any of the W schools.)

2. Are you saying that MCPS is not interested in improving academic performance to reduce the achievement gap? That would be news to me, but perhaps you can say why you believe this.

3. All MCPS schools provide the same curriculum. There are people in Bethesda and Potomac who believe that their schools provide better education because the students are with high-performing cohorts.

Right.

When it's an issue that benefits people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "The high schools in Bethesda and Potomac are better!"

When it's an issue that doesn't benefit people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "All of the high schools in MCPS have the same curriculum!"

Some people consider those schools better because of various reasons NOT including BETTER CURRICULUM.

I don't think anyone would really have problems understanding these simple arguments.

So, the schools are better? They're not all the same?

I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes many high achievers. If you exchanged all the students of my W school with those of say, Kennedy HS, then I would prefer my child go to Kennedy HS. MCPS schools all have the same curriculum.

I read this as "I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes few poor people".

Well that is your hangup. Why would you equate low achieving with poor people? I hope people like you will leave MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. I was aiming for economic diversity and Damascus at 29% FARMs is at the intermediate level where the FARMs students should be helped being in a diverse school. In addition the 30% AA + Hispanic fraction of Damascus makes it more diverse than any of the W schools. (Although the white fraction at Damascus is high, the Asian fraction is low, so the white + Asian fraction is much lower than any of the W schools.)

2. Are you saying that MCPS is not interested in improving academic performance to reduce the achievement gap? That would be news to me, but perhaps you can say why you believe this.

3. All MCPS schools provide the same curriculum. There are people in Bethesda and Potomac who believe that their schools provide better education because the students are with high-performing cohorts.

Right.

When it's an issue that benefits people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "The high schools in Bethesda and Potomac are better!"

When it's an issue that doesn't benefit people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "All of the high schools in MCPS have the same curriculum!"

Some people consider those schools better because of various reasons NOT including BETTER CURRICULUM.

I don't think anyone would really have problems understanding these simple arguments.

So, the schools are better? They're not all the same?

I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes many high achievers. If you exchanged all the students of my W school with those of say, Kennedy HS, then I would prefer my child go to Kennedy HS. MCPS schools all have the same curriculum.

I read this as "I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes few poor people".

Well that is your hangup. Why would you equate low achieving with poor people? I hope people like you will leave MCPS.

Why wouldn’t people equate low achieving with poor? Honestly no matter the chicken or the egg they either got their by low achievement or the have exponentially greater probability of failure by being poor. Poor and low achieving are synonymous

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. I was aiming for economic diversity and Damascus at 29% FARMs is at the intermediate level where the FARMs students should be helped being in a diverse school. In addition the 30% AA + Hispanic fraction of Damascus makes it more diverse than any of the W schools. (Although the white fraction at Damascus is high, the Asian fraction is low, so the white + Asian fraction is much lower than any of the W schools.)

2. Are you saying that MCPS is not interested in improving academic performance to reduce the achievement gap? That would be news to me, but perhaps you can say why you believe this.

3. All MCPS schools provide the same curriculum. There are people in Bethesda and Potomac who believe that their schools provide better education because the students are with high-performing cohorts.

Right.

When it's an issue that benefits people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "The high schools in Bethesda and Potomac are better!"

When it's an issue that doesn't benefit people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "All of the high schools in MCPS have the same curriculum!"

Some people consider those schools better because of various reasons NOT including BETTER CURRICULUM.

I don't think anyone would really have problems understanding these simple arguments.

So, the schools are better? They're not all the same?

I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes many high achievers. If you exchanged all the students of my W school with those of say, Kennedy HS, then I would prefer my child go to Kennedy HS. MCPS schools all have the same curriculum.

I read this as "I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes few poor people".

Well that is your hangup. Why would you equate low achieving with poor people? I hope people like you will leave MCPS.

Why wouldn’t people equate low achieving with poor? Honestly no matter the chicken or the egg they either got their by low achievement or the have exponentially greater probability of failure by being poor. Poor and low achieving are synonymous

Clearly, the W parent hates poor people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. I was aiming for economic diversity and Damascus at 29% FARMs is at the intermediate level where the FARMs students should be helped being in a diverse school. In addition the 30% AA + Hispanic fraction of Damascus makes it more diverse than any of the W schools. (Although the white fraction at Damascus is high, the Asian fraction is low, so the white + Asian fraction is much lower than any of the W schools.)

2. Are you saying that MCPS is not interested in improving academic performance to reduce the achievement gap? That would be news to me, but perhaps you can say why you believe this.

3. All MCPS schools provide the same curriculum. There are people in Bethesda and Potomac who believe that their schools provide better education because the students are with high-performing cohorts.

Right.

When it's an issue that benefits people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "The high schools in Bethesda and Potomac are better!"

When it's an issue that doesn't benefit people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "All of the high schools in MCPS have the same curriculum!"

Some people consider those schools better because of various reasons NOT including BETTER CURRICULUM.

I don't think anyone would really have problems understanding these simple arguments.

So, the schools are better? They're not all the same?

I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes many high achievers. If you exchanged all the students of my W school with those of say, Kennedy HS, then I would prefer my child go to Kennedy HS. MCPS schools all have the same curriculum.

I read this as "I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes few poor people".

Sure. And I think that indicates you need to revisit your reading classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
1. I was aiming for economic diversity and Damascus at 29% FARMs is at the intermediate level where the FARMs students should be helped being in a diverse school. In addition the 30% AA + Hispanic fraction of Damascus makes it more diverse than any of the W schools. (Although the white fraction at Damascus is high, the Asian fraction is low, so the white + Asian fraction is much lower than any of the W schools.)

2. Are you saying that MCPS is not interested in improving academic performance to reduce the achievement gap? That would be news to me, but perhaps you can say why you believe this.

3. All MCPS schools provide the same curriculum. There are people in Bethesda and Potomac who believe that their schools provide better education because the students are with high-performing cohorts.

Right.

When it's an issue that benefits people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "The high schools in Bethesda and Potomac are better!"

When it's an issue that doesn't benefit people who own property in Bethesda and Potomac, it's, "All of the high schools in MCPS have the same curriculum!"

Some people consider those schools better because of various reasons NOT including BETTER CURRICULUM.

I don't think anyone would really have problems understanding these simple arguments.

So, the schools are better? They're not all the same?

I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes many high achievers. If you exchanged all the students of my W school with those of say, Kennedy HS, then I would prefer my child go to Kennedy HS. MCPS schools all have the same curriculum.

I read this as "I prefer that my child go to a W school because the student body includes few poor people".

Sure. And I think that indicates you need to revisit your reading classes.

The OP's intent was clear. They hate poor people.

[Anonymous]

I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

So, it actually is about demographics, not about test scores.

What about the "low performers" at your kid's school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

So, it actually is about demographics, not about test scores.

What about the "low performers" at your kid's school?

You have a reading comprehension problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

So you'd be fine with poor kids or minorities, if they had top test scores. But they don't, so you're not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

So you'd be fine with poor kids or minorities, if they had top test scores. But they don't, so you're not.

I want my kids surrounded by hard working/high performing kids. I don't want my kids surrounded by kids who aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate when rich educated people pretend that poor performers will magically become top performers by getting bussed to schools with high performers. What a hoot. Where in the world has that ever happened?

I hate when people claim that this is about test scores.

Give me a school with all poor kids or minorities that have top test scores and I'd send my kid there. Unfortunately, it's like a rainbow unicorn. The fact that I want my kid with high performers doesn't make me racist or elitist. I work very hard with my kid.

So you'd be fine with poor kids or minorities, if they had top test scores. But they don't, so you're not.

I want my kids surrounded by hard working/high performing kids. I don't want my kids surrounded by kids who aren't.

But that's not how public schools work here. In the public school you're zoned for, your kids are surrounded by kids who live in the area zoned for the public school you're zoned for. Some of these kids work hard, some of them don't. Some of these kids have high test scores, some of them don't.