are social skills playgroups

[Anonymous]

Reminds me of Jehovah's Witnesses - the way they just NEED TO SHARE THEIR NEWS WITH YOU...

Greenspan fan needs a social skills group of her own!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Now, please read this carefully, okay? Parenting Playgroups uses floortime. Lots of places do. But where did they get the idea to use floortime? Greenspan created floortime. So thats who they borrowed it from. But the problem is that Greenspan's floortime can only be taught well if you attend his floortime training through DIR Support Services in Bethesda. Parenting Playgroups or the other places that use floortime would have had to attend training in order to learn Greenspan's floortime. I can assure you it is different. I'm thrilled that people incorporate floortime though, even though it's not accurately copied. Like I've said before,SOME floortime is better than NO floortime or even poorly copied floortime. Now please pay attention to this particular part - Parenting Playgroup teaches floortime or talks about floortime in the parenting lectures. IT DOES NOT INCORPORATE ANY FLOORTIME IN THE SOCIAL SKILLS GROUP. THEIR SOCIAL SKILLS GROUP RELIES ON A FAIR AMOUNT OF DISCRETE BEHAVIOR TRAINING AND ROTE MEMORIZATION. That is their social skills group failure.

So you're problem is that other social skills groups don't teach Floortime the way Greenspan does. The heresy!

You also don't know much about their social skills groups. Oh, you may have seen a class but just because you were present doesn't mean you were really there. You're mind is so closed to anything other the Greenspan. I'd try Parenting Playgroups just because you don't think they're any good. Hey - how do you feel about their Positive Discipline Class? Did I mention that Parenting Playgroups had one of the most affordable social skills groups in the area? Hey - how do you feel about their Positive Discipline Class? What does the Greenspan say about that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a new poster on this thread.

I don't really understand why so many people are harping on the Greenspan booster. OK, she comes across as very in your face and sure of herself, and that can be annoying. But the OP asked if social skills groups were any good/effective (I can't remember the exact words) , and the poster has some pretty useful opinions and information, IMO. If I had been the OP I would have found her comments and links informative. Maybe I wouldn't have agreed with them (I actually do find them useful and interesting but that is beside the point.) But the poster you are criticizing has a right to post her opinions on this topic.

I think we all agree that she certainly has the right to post her opinions. Have you read the entire thread? She becomes abusive and mean-spirited. I also think people are responding to her thread in the Website Feedback forum and other threads she has contributed to.

Yes, I've read the entire thread. I gotta tell you, I post and read a lot on internet discussion forums, and she really doesn't seem all that abusive and mean spirited. She's opinionated, sure, but I judge posters by the quality of their information, not their social niceties.

When people engage her about the "quality of her information," she becomes unhinged. I don't care about social niceties as much as I care about honest, deliberate discussion. OP is incapbale of this.

Honestly I think people know that I have provided quite a bit of quality information...studies, quotes from the foremost expert on autism and developmental issues. What have you provided to support you points? Nothing. Where is your quote from my previous posts on this topic of social skills that show I "become unhinged" when people debate me about the 'quality of my information'? Every second post is vicious and lowly because it makes personal attacks. Every now and then, on here as well as the WebFeedback forum, somebody does write in to say it's clear that I'm being lambasted because you folks have 'run out of intellectual steam' and now need to resort to insults and get ugly. I think DCUMers generally recognize what's happening here. You folks are just a vocal minority who probably feel hurt because if what I say is true, or rather if what Greenspan says is true, then it probably makes you feel you haven't been doing the right thing for your kids in terms of helping them with socializing. So you're out for my blood in retaliation. Why feel bad about anything? Even if Greenspan is correct and you haven't been doing the right thing for your kids socially, you didn't know that. Whose going to blame you for not knowing? We all started off not knowing anything and then going through the process of learning. It's all a learning process. I'm not saying you are bad parents. I'm not saying 'I feel sorry for your kids' (though you have certainly said that to me). I'm simply saying that you needn't feel guilty or like a bad parent because you didn't know.

In a few years I think social skills groups will eventually incorporate Greenspan's view, realizing this shortcoming.

NP here. Are you for real? You think THIS is why you annoy and anger people? Because if we actually looked deep inside we would realize that we weren't doing right by our kids. In your view, the ONLY way is Greenspan's. You pretty much say this. And you say you won't blame us for what we didn't know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Jehovah's Witnesses - the way they just NEED TO SHARE THEIR NEWS WITH YOU...

Greenspan fan needs a social skills group of her own!

She acts as if it is her moral duty to save us sinners and show us the light. Greenspan is her savior. He could be ours as well if we would only repent and admit we have been doing it all wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reminds me of Jehovah's Witnesses - the way they just NEED TO SHARE THEIR NEWS WITH YOU...

Greenspan fan needs a social skills group of her own!

She acts as if it is her moral duty to save us sinners and show us the light. Greenspan is her savior. He could be ours as well if we would only repent and admit we have been doing it all wrong.

And we'd have to learn it from Greenspan, otherwise it just would just be a watered down, corrupt version of the original. But, at least would be in going in the direction of redemption.

[Anonymous]

Whoa, I am coming in late but I am completely confused by the Greenspan fanatic poster, and I am a big booster of Greenspan's. First of all, it is absolutely untrue that the therapists have to be trained at DIR in Bethesda to know floortime. My son is older than your kids so when we did floortime there was no DIR services in Bethesda. ALL of his speech therapists and OTs had been trained in floortime in seminars directly by Greenspan. In fact, back then at least, most of the various therapists in this area were using floortime because of Greenspan's influence. They certainly don't need to now schlep over to DIR. So you are simply incorrect there.

Second, I don't understand this idea of social skills groups using rote memorization. We've used several over the years and none of them used rote memorization. I can't imagine why any group would. When DS was younger, his groups specifically used floortime.

So what have we gotten from groups? My ds does have an ASD -- Aspergers (and keep in mind Greenspan is loath to diagnose kids with ASDs for philosophical reasons. We saw his co-author Serena Weidner and she said my ds was not on the spectrum. He most certainly is.). He is ten years old and has been receiving various therapies since he was 20 months old, including social skills groups since he was 4 and lots of floortime. He is now in a mainstream school and is actually very popular. I don't have to arrange playdates for him, he gets called for them all the time. Several parents have told me that he's the most popular kid in the class, my autistic son. He's odd, but he has friends, real friends. And we still go to a social skills group and will as long as he is in my house because as he gets older the social demands will change.

So there's no need to create this false dichotomy between floortime and social skills groups. And, good Lord, those of us who send our children to these groups are not deluded or wrong. My son would not be nearly as successful as he is now without those groups.

[Anonymous]

Bless you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa, I am coming in late but I am completely confused by the Greenspan fanatic poster, and I am a big booster of Greenspan's. First of all, it is absolutely untrue that the therapists have to be trained at DIR in Bethesda to know floortime. My son is older than your kids so when we did floortime there was no DIR services in Bethesda. ALL of his speech therapists and OTs had been trained in floortime in seminars directly by Greenspan. In fact, back then at least, most of the various therapists in this area were using floortime because of Greenspan's influence. They certainly don't need to now schlep over to DIR. So you are simply incorrect there.

Second, I don't understand this idea of social skills groups using rote memorization. We've used several over the years and none of them used rote memorization. I can't imagine why any group would. When DS was younger, his groups specifically used floortime.

So what have we gotten from groups? My ds does have an ASD -- Aspergers (and keep in mind Greenspan is loath to diagnose kids with ASDs for philosophical reasons. We saw his co-author Serena Weidner and she said my ds was not on the spectrum. He most certainly is.). He is ten years old and has been receiving various therapies since he was 20 months old, including social skills groups since he was 4 and lots of floortime. He is now in a mainstream school and is actually very popular. I don't have to arrange playdates for him, he gets called for them all the time. Several parents have told me that he's the most popular kid in the class, my autistic son. He's odd, but he has friends, real friends. And we still go to a social skills group and will as long as he is in my house because as he gets older the social demands will change.

So there's no need to create this false dichotomy between floortime and social skills groups. And, good Lord, those of us who send our children to these groups are not deluded or wrong. My son would not be nearly as successful as he is now without those groups.

Thank you. Your insights are helpful and needed. The Greenspan fanatic confused me, and did in fact make me wonder what our current course of action. Again, I appreciate your post.

[Anonymous]

Either you have some difficulty with reading comprehension or you just not reading my posts at all. Where exactly did I say that my big "problem is that other social skills groups don't teach floortime the way Greenspan does"? That is certainly one problem but that their BIGGEST problem. Didn't I just say in my previous post that any floortime is better than no floortime, even a poorly copied one? So why are you not understanding what I'm saying?


I'll try explaining again: The vast majority of social skills groups do discrete behavior training or involve rote memorization and that is their BIGGEST problem. I explain what discrete behavior training or rote memorization is above. Greenspan says behavior can not become generalized if it isn't attached to FEELINGS.

I'm beginning to wonder if you understanding some of the terminology I'm using. Perhaps not. So allow me to explain. Generalized behavior means behavior that is learned and then can be applied and tweaked for different situations and differed circumstances. Behavior that is learned with FEELINGS is natural, truly learned, and the child can apply it to all kinds of different circumstances and he can tweak his behavior according to the different situations that arise in life. This is how healthy children learn behavior and how they can generalize behavior. ASD children, AS WELL AS CHILDREN WITH SOME MINOR ISSUES LIKE DEVELOPMENTAL PROBLEMS OR REGULATORY PROBLEMS MAY STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THIS HOWEVER. Behavior that is not learned with FEELINGS is robotic, without any warmth in the gut, it is unnatural, and of course it can not be generalized or applied to different situations.


Also, I have absolutely attended and watched the Parenting Playgroups social skills classes. I have spoken to the psychologists who run that class. They, without a doubt, incorporate lots of class-like, rote memorization in their class.

What does positive disc have to do with this topic we are discussing??? I am very familiar with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Either you have some difficulty with reading comprehension or you just not reading my posts at all. Where exactly did I say that my big "problem is that other social skills groups don't teach floortime the way Greenspan does"? That is certainly one problem but that their BIGGEST problem. Didn't I just say in my previous post that any floortime is better than no floortime, even a poorly copied one? So why are you not understanding what I'm saying?


I'll try explaining again: The vast majority of social skills groups do discrete behavior training or involve rote memorization and that is their BIGGEST problem. I explain what discrete behavior training or rote memorization is above. Greenspan says behavior can not become generalized if it isn't attached to FEELINGS.

I'm beginning to wonder if you understanding some of the terminology I'm using. Perhaps not. So allow me to explain. Generalized behavior means behavior that is learned and then can be applied and tweaked for different situations and differed circumstances. Behavior that is learned with FEELINGS is natural, truly learned, and the child can apply it to all kinds of different circumstances and he can tweak his behavior according to the different situations that arise in life. This is how healthy children learn behavior and how they can generalize behavior. ASD children, AS WELL AS CHILDREN WITH SOME MINOR ISSUES LIKE DEVELOPMENTAL PROBLEMS OR REGULATORY PROBLEMS MAY STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THIS HOWEVER. Behavior that is not learned with FEELINGS is robotic, without any warmth in the gut, it is unnatural, and of course it can not be generalized or applied to different situations.


Also, I have absolutely attended and watched the Parenting Playgroups social skills classes. I have spoken to the psychologists who run that class. They, without a doubt, incorporate lots of class-like, rote memorization in their class.

What does positive disc have to do with this topic we are discussing??? I am very familiar with it.

Meant to say 'that is not their BIGGEST problem."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa, I am coming in late but I am completely confused by the Greenspan fanatic poster, and I am a big booster of Greenspan's. First of all, it is absolutely untrue that the therapists have to be trained at DIR in Bethesda to know floortime. My son is older than your kids so when we did floortime there was no DIR services in Bethesda. ALL of his speech therapists and OTs had been trained in floortime in seminars directly by Greenspan. In fact, back then at least, most of the various therapists in this area were using floortime because of Greenspan's influence. They certainly don't need to now schlep over to DIR. So you are simply incorrect there.

Kindly refrain from the name-calling and stick to just the discussion of the points and things will go more smoothly! DIR NOW trains all patients. Therapists can receive training in a variety of ways. To be certified I think you have to take a floortime exam and a class. It can be completed online. You canalso attend ICDL conferences. You can also get some out of Greenspan's books. Greenspan himself training patients or therapists is the ideal of course. But he's old now and movement is not easy for him. So he's trained others to train people now.Second, I don't understand this idea of social skills groups using rote memorization. We've used several over the years and none of them used rote memorization. I can't imagine why any group would. When DS was younger, his groups specifically used floortime.

So what have we gotten from groups? My ds does have an ASD -- Aspergers (and keep in mind Greenspan is loath to diagnose kids with ASDs for philosophical reasons. We saw his co-author Serena Weidner and she said my ds was not on the spectrum. He most certainly is.). He is ten years old and has been receiving various therapies since he was 20 months old, including social skills groups since he was 4 and lots of floortime. He is now in a mainstream school and is actually very popular. I don't have to arrange playdates for him, he gets called for them all the time. Several parents have told me that he's the most popular kid in the class, my autistic son. He's odd, but he has friends, real friends. And we still go to a social skills group and will as long as he is in my house because as he gets older the social demands will change.

So there's no need to create this false dichotomy between floortime and social skills groups. And, good Lord, those of us who send our children to these groups are not deluded or wrong. My son would not be nearly as successful as he is now without those groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what have we gotten from groups? My ds does have an ASD -- Aspergers (and keep in mind Greenspan is loath to diagnose kids with ASDs for philosophical reasons. We saw his co-author Serena Weidner and she said my ds was not on the spectrum. He most certainly is.). He is ten years old and has been receiving various therapies since he was 20 months old, including social skills groups since he was 4 and lots of floortime. He is now in a mainstream school and is actually very popular. I don't have to arrange playdates for him, he gets called for them all the time. Several parents have told me that he's the most popular kid in the class, my autistic son. He's odd, but he has friends, real friends. And we still go to a social skills group and will as long as he is in my house because as he gets older the social demands will change.So there's no need to create this false dichotomy between floortime and social skills groups. And, good Lord, those of us who send our children to these groups are not deluded or wrong. My son would not be nearly as successful as he is now without those groups.

ALL ASD kids will need social skills help. SOME kids with regulatory issues and some other developmental issues may need some degree of social skills help too. Regulatory kids might have problems with attention and focus so they may not be able to focus on playing a game with a child for an extended period of time. Or regulatory kids might have motor planning issues so playing a game of baseball or soccer or pretend play might be harder for them because they can't keep the order of steps straight in their mind or they maybe won't know what to do next. Or regulatory kids might have auditory processing issues. This could interfere w their ability to respond quickly to sounds around them. Having sensory issues to some degree will affect a child's ability to socialize so social skills are important for them too. Greenspan hates to see parents who are hurt by an ASD diagnosis, because ASD diagnosis used to be the horror diagnosis that parents used to think was totally untreatable. Greenspan wants to change this perception. He's seen remarkable success with treating many ASD patients so they can indeed become warm, related, interactive individuals. BUT make no mistake about it that Greenspan is a blunt fellow. He doesn't mess around with words. If you ask him point blank if your child has ASD, he will point blank tell you. We did ask that question and we feel we got the correct answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Either you have some difficulty with reading comprehension or you just not reading my posts at all. Where exactly did I say that my big "problem is that other social skills groups don't teach floortime the way Greenspan does"? That is certainly one problem but that their BIGGEST problem. Didn't I just say in my previous post that any floortime is better than no floortime, even a poorly copied one? So why are you not understanding what I'm saying?

You said,

Greenspan's floortime can only be taught well if you attend his floortime training through DIR Support Services in Bethesda.

Which means it can't be taught well anywhere else. That's BS.

Perhaps we don't understand you because you're a poor communicator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whoa, I am coming in late but I am completely confused by the Greenspan fanatic poster, and I am a big booster of Greenspan's. First of all, it is absolutely untrue that the therapists have to be trained at DIR in Bethesda to know floortime. My son is older than your kids so when we did floortime there was no DIR services in Bethesda. ALL of his speech therapists and OTs had been trained in floortime in seminars directly by Greenspan. In fact, back then at least, most of the various therapists in this area were using floortime because of Greenspan's influence. They certainly don't need to now schlep over to DIR. So you are simply incorrect there.

Second, I don't understand this idea of social skills groups using rote memorization. We've used several over the years and none of them used rote memorization. I can't imagine why any group would. When DS was younger, his groups specifically used floortime.

So what have we gotten from groups? My ds does have an ASD -- Aspergers (and keep in mind Greenspan is loath to diagnose kids with ASDs for philosophical reasons. We saw his co-author Serena Weidner and she said my ds was not on the spectrum. He most certainly is.). He is ten years old and has been receiving various therapies since he was 20 months old, including social skills groups since he was 4 and lots of floortime. He is now in a mainstream school and is actually very popular. I don't have to arrange playdates for him, he gets called for them all the time. Several parents have told me that he's the most popular kid in the class, my autistic son. He's odd, but he has friends, real friends. And we still go to a social skills group and will as long as he is in my house because as he gets older the social demands will change.

So there's no need to create this false dichotomy between floortime and social skills groups. And, good Lord, those of us who send our children to these groups are not deluded or wrong. My son would not be nearly as successful as he is now without those groups.

Here are two articles that Greensapn wrote on distinguishing ASD from other problems and the misdiagnosis of ASD:


http://www.icdl.com/distance/webRadio/documents/2-26-2004.pdf
http://www.icdl.com/distance/webRadio/documents/10-8-08b.pdf
http://www.icdl.com/distance/webRadio/documents/10-10-2008.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Either you have some difficulty with reading comprehension or you just not reading my posts at all. Where exactly did I say that my big "problem is that other social skills groups don't teach floortime the way Greenspan does"? That is certainly one problem but that their BIGGEST problem. Didn't I just say in my previous post that any floortime is better than no floortime, even a poorly copied one? So why are you not understanding what I'm saying?

You said,

Greenspan's floortime can only be taught well if you attend his floortime training through DIR Support Services in Bethesda.

Which means it can't be taught well anywhere else. That's BS.

Perhaps we don't understand you because you're a poor communicator.

YES, for patients, Greenspan's floortime is taught best IF you attend DIR and see Jake or Tim, this is true.