are social skills playgroups

[Anonymous]

I don't hate Greenspan. I made it pretty clear that I'm actually a booster. And there's nothing "easy" about raising a child with a disability. I do think that the mental health of the parents is not only important in itself, but is an important ingredient in raising that child.

And let me say something in defense of rote learning, even though it will send you around the bend. I have taught both my NT child and my child with an ASD to say please and thank you, greet people, open the door for people. This is rote learning and I could give two hoots if they have any emotion behind these actions. These are the rituals of polite people, and my children will perform them.

After lots and lots of floortime, my son made huge progress (as I said, I;m a booster) but like many kids with ASDs was not making eye contact. Eye contact for kids on the spectrum is a source of controversy but I was persuaded that we receive a lot of information by looking at the person we are speaking to, and that failure to receive that information reenforces the social learning disability. So I began giving him prompts to make eye contact and this is something he has worked on a great deal in his social skills group. I am sure Greenspan would not approve. But the result is not only that his eye contact has improved substantially (though still not where his peers are) but his affect has become much more typical as well. And, the most important piece, I've already said that he is highly socially successful, though still autistic. I must be doing something right.

I am skeptical of pure ideology in all forms, certainly including the raising of my child. I can't imagine raising either of my children based solely on a theory rather than their actual needs. Bow down before Dr. Greenspan all you want. I will continue to take my son to his social skills groups.

[Anonymous]

We, too, used to have problems with eye contact when DC was around 2 years old. RDI and floortime helped with that I think. They both involve a lot of affect and enjoyable game playing. DC was wooed into making eye contact with us because he couldn't resist with the games recommended by RDI and the joy he felt with floortime...Again, I'm not issuing a mandate on you to stop social skills groups so you are free to do as you wish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate Greenspan. I made it pretty clear that I'm actually a booster. And there's nothing "easy" about raising a child with a disability. I do think that the mental health of the parents is not only important in itself, but is an important ingredient in raising that child.

And let me say something in defense of rote learning, even though it will send you around the bend. I have taught both my NT child and my child with an ASD to say please and thank you, greet people, open the door for people. This is rote learning and I could give two hoots if they have any emotion behind these actions. These are the rituals of polite people, and my children will perform them.

After lots and lots of floortime, my son made huge progress (as I said, I;m a booster) but like many kids with ASDs was not making eye contact. Eye contact for kids on the spectrum is a source of controversy but I was persuaded that we receive a lot of information by looking at the person we are speaking to, and that failure to receive that information reenforces the social learning disability. So I began giving him prompts to make eye contact and this is something he has worked on a great deal in his social skills group. I am sure Greenspan would not approve. But the result is not only that his eye contact has improved substantially (though still not where his peers are) but his affect has become much more typical as well. And, the most important piece, I've already said that he is highly socially successful, though still autistic. I must be doing something right.

I am skeptical of pure ideology in all forms, certainly including the raising of my child. I can't imagine raising either of my children based solely on a theory rather than their actual needs. Bow down before Dr. Greenspan all you want. I will continue to take my son to his social skills groups.

I just want to tell you that it sounds like you've really done a fantastic job and it seems you have been able to do it with balance in approach and in your life. I know how hard it is not to let yourself get overwhelmed by the sense of urgency to do all you can for your challenged child - it's hard enough with an NT child! I totally agree that the mental health of the parents - and I would add relationship stability - are incredibly important. Those need to be nurtured as much as a child's. You may be able to neglect them in the short run but not over the long. I hope you're child continues to enjoy the fruits of all your hard work. Thanks for sharing and providing some needed perspective.

[Anonymous]

This thread is now useful to me again. I hope the previous poster is spreading her message elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate Greenspan. I made it pretty clear that I'm actually a booster. And there's nothing "easy" about raising a child with a disability. I do think that the mental health of the parents is not only important in itself, but is an important ingredient in raising that child.

And let me say something in defense of rote learning, even though it will send you around the bend. I have taught both my NT child and my child with an ASD to say please and thank you, greet people, open the door for people. This is rote learning and I could give two hoots if they have any emotion behind these actions. These are the rituals of polite people, and my children will perform them.

After lots and lots of floortime, my son made huge progress (as I said, I;m a booster) but like many kids with ASDs was not making eye contact. Eye contact for kids on the spectrum is a source of controversy but I was persuaded that we receive a lot of information by looking at the person we are speaking to, and that failure to receive that information reenforces the social learning disability. So I began giving him prompts to make eye contact and this is something he has worked on a great deal in his social skills group. I am sure Greenspan would not approve. But the result is not only that his eye contact has improved substantially (though still not where his peers are) but his affect has become much more typical as well. And, the most important piece, I've already said that he is highly socially successful, though still autistic. I must be doing something right.

I am skeptical of pure ideology in all forms, certainly including the raising of my child. I can't imagine raising either of my children based solely on a theory rather than their actual needs. Bow down before Dr. Greenspan all you want. I will continue to take my son to his social skills groups.

I think you rock. Both of your children are so lucky to have a mom like you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate Greenspan. I made it pretty clear that I'm actually a booster. And there's nothing "easy" about raising a child with a disability. I do think that the mental health of the parents is not only important in itself, but is an important ingredient in raising that child.

And let me say something in defense of rote learning, even though it will send you around the bend. I have taught both my NT child and my child with an ASD to say please and thank you, greet people, open the door for people. This is rote learning and I could give two hoots if they have any emotion behind these actions. These are the rituals of polite people, and my children will perform them.

After lots and lots of floortime, my son made huge progress (as I said, I;m a booster) but like many kids with ASDs was not making eye contact. Eye contact for kids on the spectrum is a source of controversy but I was persuaded that we receive a lot of information by looking at the person we are speaking to, and that failure to receive that information reenforces the social learning disability. So I began giving him prompts to make eye contact and this is something he has worked on a great deal in his social skills group. I am sure Greenspan would not approve. But the result is not only that his eye contact has improved substantially (though still not where his peers are) but his affect has become much more typical as well. And, the most important piece, I've already said that he is highly socially successful, though still autistic. I must be doing something right.

I am skeptical of pure ideology in all forms, certainly including the raising of my child. I can't imagine raising either of my children based solely on a theory rather than their actual needs. Bow down before Dr. Greenspan all you want. I will continue to take my son to his social skills groups.

PP, you said Dr. Greenspan did not dx your child with ASD. Who did dx your child with ASD then? Where did your child receive therapy? Also, you didn't say where your child had social skills groups that involved no rote memorization or discrete behavior training? When eye contact is established for regulatory kids, they start picking up social skills naturally at the speed of lightening. This is because they begin to immediately pick up massive amounts of information through the power of simple observation, information about facial expressions, social cues, reactions, feelings, etc...DH works with plenty of kids with ASD that he said quirks are not the defining trait of ASD children. It's a social disconnect, an inability to pick up the subtleties of communication and in language, a rigidity, a tendency to be literal. Very hard to be 'socially successful' with these issues.

[Anonymous]

My child has been diagnosed with an ASD by both a psychologist and a developmental pediatrician. Every therapist who works with him would confirm the diagnosis, it isn't even close. It runs in my family and I have other family members with ASDs as well. On the one hand, you quote Greenspan as saying that kids with ASDs can make tremendous progress through floortime while on the other questioning that my child has an ASD because he's made tremendous progress. My son's progress was made before the eye contact phase, though it continues. He is absolutely literal, and communicates differently from the other kids, has obsessions and "gets stuck" in certain patterns of thinking (the rigidity you refer to). He is also charming and funny and different in ways that appeal to other children. I realize it is unusual for a child with an ASD to be socially successful, but he is. We have also been very selective about the mainstream programs (schools, camps) we put him in so that he won't be the object of bullying.

You don't have to lecture me on what an ASD is -- I live with it.

And by the way, this whole regulatory thing is not a medical diagnosis. I realize that Greenspan uses it but it is really a symptom, not a disorder. Kids with ADHD can have regulatory issues, kids with ASDs can have regulatory issues, kids with shadow symptoms of ASDs can as well. Sometimes these squishy diagnoses (and I would put sensory disorders in the same category) are given as a kind of soft landing to families before they find, years later, that their child has ADHD or an ASD. Not always, of course, but I always caution parents whose child has one of these diagnoses to dig further.

I am reluctant to put the name of the groups out there because you will rip them apart and create disinformation for other parents whose kids could really benefit. I am already concerned that you've dissuaded them from even using social skills groups which, as I've said, have been extremely beneficial for my son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate Greenspan. I made it pretty clear that I'm actually a booster. And there's nothing "easy" about raising a child with a disability. I do think that the mental health of the parents is not only important in itself, but is an important ingredient in raising that child.

And let me say something in defense of rote learning, even though it will send you around the bend. I have taught both my NT child and my child with an ASD to say please and thank you, greet people, open the door for people. This is rote learning and I could give two hoots if they have any emotion behind these actions. These are the rituals of polite people, and my children will perform them.

After lots and lots of floortime, my son made huge progress (as I said, I;m a booster) but like many kids with ASDs was not making eye contact. Eye contact for kids on the spectrum is a source of controversy but I was persuaded that we receive a lot of information by looking at the person we are speaking to, and that failure to receive that information reenforces the social learning disability. So I began giving him prompts to make eye contact and this is something he has worked on a great deal in his social skills group. I am sure Greenspan would not approve. But the result is not only that his eye contact has improved substantially (though still not where his peers are) but his affect has become much more typical as well. And, the most important piece, I've already said that he is highly socially successful, though still autistic. I must be doing something right.

I am skeptical of pure ideology in all forms, certainly including the raising of my child. I can't imagine raising either of my children based solely on a theory rather than their actual needs. Bow down before Dr. Greenspan all you want. I will continue to take my son to his social skills groups.

PP, you said Dr. Greenspan did not dx your child with ASD. Who did dx your child with ASD then? Where did your child receive therapy? Also, you didn't say where your child had social skills groups that involved no rote memorization or discrete behavior training? When eye contact is established for regulatory kids, they start picking up social skills naturally at the speed of lightening. This is because they begin to immediately pick up massive amounts of information through the power of simple observation, information about facial expressions, social cues, reactions, feelings, etc...DH works with plenty of kids with ASD that he said quirks are not the defining trait of ASD children. It's a social disconnect, an inability to pick up the subtleties of communication and in language, a rigidity, a tendency to be literal. Very hard to be 'socially successful' with these issues.

Hey, on the other thread you said you would only post if you could HELP people through information. Why the need to challange successful parents? Why the need to challenge things that don't fit into your understanding? Please stop polluting threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't hate Greenspan. I made it pretty clear that I'm actually a booster. And there's nothing "easy" about raising a child with a disability. I do think that the mental health of the parents is not only important in itself, but is an important ingredient in raising that child.

And let me say something in defense of rote learning, even though it will send you around the bend. I have taught both my NT child and my child with an ASD to say please and thank you, greet people, open the door for people. This is rote learning and I could give two hoots if they have any emotion behind these actions. These are the rituals of polite people, and my children will perform them.

After lots and lots of floortime, my son made huge progress (as I said, I;m a booster) but like many kids with ASDs was not making eye contact. Eye contact for kids on the spectrum is a source of controversy but I was persuaded that we receive a lot of information by looking at the person we are speaking to, and that failure to receive that information reenforces the social learning disability. So I began giving him prompts to make eye contact and this is something he has worked on a great deal in his social skills group. I am sure Greenspan would not approve. But the result is not only that his eye contact has improved substantially (though still not where his peers are) but his affect has become much more typical as well. And, the most important piece, I've already said that he is highly socially successful, though still autistic. I must be doing something right.

I am skeptical of pure ideology in all forms, certainly including the raising of my child. I can't imagine raising either of my children based solely on a theory rather than their actual needs. Bow down before Dr. Greenspan all you want. I will continue to take my son to his social skills groups.

PP, you said Dr. Greenspan did not dx your child with ASD. Who did dx your child with ASD then? Where did your child receive therapy? Also, you didn't say where your child had social skills groups that involved no rote memorization or discrete behavior training? When eye contact is established for regulatory kids, they start picking up social skills naturally at the speed of lightening. This is because they begin to immediately pick up massive amounts of information through the power of simple observation, information about facial expressions, social cues, reactions, feelings, etc...DH works with plenty of kids with ASD that he said quirks are not the defining trait of ASD children. It's a social disconnect, an inability to pick up the subtleties of communication and in language, a rigidity, a tendency to be literal. Very hard to be 'socially successful' with these issues.

Would you even know? You are socially completed disconnected from what a gigantic turn-off you are. You are doing a disservice to everything you're trying to promote. You actually SUBTRACT value from both Greenspan and this forum EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU POST. You are a typing example of WHAT NOT TO DO. I can't imagine why you think your opinion adds credibility - it does not. For the love of Pete woman, look in the mirror and hear what everyone is trying to tell you: you are a cautionary tale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child has been diagnosed with an ASD by both a psychologist and a developmental pediatrician. Every therapist who works with him would confirm the diagnosis, it isn't even close. It runs in my family and I have other family members with ASDs as well. On the one hand, you quote Greenspan as saying that kids with ASDs can make tremendous progress through floortime while on the other questioning that my child has an ASD because he's made tremendous progress. My son's progress was made before the eye contact phase, though it continues. He is absolutely literal, and communicates differently from the other kids, has obsessions and "gets stuck" in certain patterns of thinking (the rigidity you refer to). He is also charming and funny and different in ways that appeal to other children. I realize it is unusual for a child with an ASD to be socially successful, but he is. We have also been very selective about the mainstream programs (schools, camps) we put him in so that he won't be the object of bullying.

You don't have to lecture me on what an ASD is -- I live with it.

And by the way, this whole regulatory thing is not a medical diagnosis. I realize that Greenspan uses it but it is really a symptom, not a disorder. Kids with ADHD can have regulatory issues, kids with ASDs can have regulatory issues, kids with shadow symptoms of ASDs can as well. Sometimes these squishy diagnoses (and I would put sensory disorders in the same category) are given as a kind of soft landing to families before they find, years later, that their child has ADHD or an ASD. Not always, of course, but I always caution parents whose child has one of these diagnoses to dig further.

I am reluctant to put the name of the groups out there because you will rip them apart and create disinformation for other parents whose kids could really benefit. I am already concerned that you've dissuaded them from even using social skills groups which, as I've said, have been extremely beneficial for my son.

PP I am only communicating with you on this as the other posts don't seem to have a shred of intelligent discussing OR debating in them, just more mean attacks.

When does the sharing of information become 'lecturing' to you? If i speak in absolutes that is an expression of my understanding, it's not a reflection of yours or any indication of a lack of understanding with you.

Sensory regulatory disorder is currently considered by some to be just a set of symptoms. ICDL has diagnosed it as a distinct disorder though and is working hard to get a DSM for it. I think within a few years we will see that it'll have its own DSM, because clearly there are many many children who have it but are not on the autism spectrum. There are many many children who have ADHD/ADD but also have sensory issues. We can't just dx them as having ADHD alone because that would disregard their other set of symptoms. So clearly these set of symptoms need their own dx eventually. This might also be helpful so that people can get insurance coverage for the treatment of children who have this. Greenspan wrote a new book (recently came out) called OVERCOMING ADHD...without a pill. It's has lots and lots of home exercises people can do to alleviate ADHD symtpoms...at home...without a therapist...and for free. By the way, not lecturing you here, but here is an article he wrote also about Sensory Regulatory Disorder:
http://www.icdl.com/distance/webRadio/documents/1-30-2008.pdf

I commented extensively on Greenspan's views and you didn't hesitate to criticize a number of his views, including parent-child relationship, his position on social skills group, his antipathy towards ASD dx...I don't perceive that you 'ripped Greenspan apart''; it was intelligent and polite but absolute disagreements. I was comfortable with your criticism and I took those criticisms as opportunities to clarify any misinterpretations I perceived you were making. Why, then, are you so averse to receiving criticism. If I didn't attend or observe the social skills group you child goes to and don't have any knowledge about them, I would simply say so. I am not setting you up to bring you down on this point. But if you truly have a social skills group that has profoundly helped your ASD child and it actually doesnot involve discrete behavior training, my goodness, that is a goldmine of a social skills group. By all means, share it with people to help them too. But if I have been there, why not allow an opposing view to also be read by others so they can weigh your positive experience with my negative experience? The purpose of this thread was to determine the effectiveness of social skills groups. That means it is inviting positive experiences as well as negative experiences, positive opinions as well as negative opinions. The purpose of this thread is not to permit only one view to stand.

If your child has the issues you describe even after years of therapy, yes, he might be ASD, I'm sure. Floortime, good social skills groups (that don't involve the discrete beh training), and other therapies (yes, even SOME non Greenspan therapies) can be profoundly beneficial for ASD children. Treating them may take longer and one probably gets more profound results when treatment is begun very very early (infancy, toddler), but it's possible and Greenspan says he has the patients to prove it (By the way, this is not a lecture, it's actually an encouragement).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And by the way, this whole regulatory thing is not a medical diagnosis. I realize that Greenspan uses it but it is really a symptom, not a disorder. Kids with ADHD can have regulatory issues, kids with ASDs can have regulatory issues, kids with shadow symptoms of ASDs can as well. Sometimes these squishy diagnoses (and I would put sensory disorders in the same category) are given as a kind of soft landing to families before they find, years later, that their child has ADHD or an ASD. Not always, of course, but I always caution parents whose child has one of these diagnoses to dig further.

I am reluctant to put the name of the groups out there because you will rip them apart and create disinformation for other parents whose kids could really benefit. I am already concerned that you've dissuaded them from even using social skills groups which, as I've said, have been extremely beneficial for my son.

You are so right! Our DS was first diagnosed with SPD. We had no idea he was also ADHD. It was mostly because of our ignorance of the many ways ADHD can manifest and mask itself. Once we immersed ourselves in learning about it, it was glaringly apparent how prevalent it was on both sides of our family. Some are more afflicted by it than others but it's there.

Social skills groups have been very helpful. I can tell you that if they were all rote memorization and discrete behavior training as the absolute woman so arrogantly proclaims, it would be knock-down drag out to get him to attend, he would be disruptive and get nothing from them. We've also had a lot of success with How Does Your Engine Run. It's even been good for our younger NT kids. It's given our DS a framework to talk about how his engine is running and how he can change it. He models it well and our younger NT kids are starting to use it as well.

Thanks for posting!

[Anonymous]

Uh oh. Disingenuous absolute woman is trying to set up our heroine. As useful as our heroine's information has been, I hope she realizes disingenuous absolute woman is trying to sweep her into her insanity. No wonder social skills groups don't work for her.

[Anonymous]

My child is "normal" but shy and slow to warm up in social situations. One on one - she is fine so its not playdates that seem to help. She has trouble translating the one on one play into larger groups. Reading the earlier posts it seems like a social skills group might be something she would benefit from.

Can someone explain how they work - Do you drop your child off or stay? Are there progress reports? homework? My child is 5 btw.

Besides Parenting Playgroups, can someone provide names of other groups in the area?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Uh oh. Disingenuous absolute woman is trying to set up our heroine. As useful as our heroine's information has been, I hope she realizes disingenuous absolute woman is trying to sweep her into her insanity. No wonder social skills groups don't work for her.

I like you.

[Anonymous]

Np here, forgive me if this has been asked and answered:

Has it been pointed out that the Grating Woman Poster Who Won't Let it Go prolly has Aspergers herself? Like her child(ren)?

Her posts, and doggedness, and inability to see that she's driving everyone crazy sound **exactly** like my Aspie nephew who physically cannot stop talking about HVAC systems. on and on and on and on and on and on