Too much Christmas Education in my Public School

[Anonymous]

NP. I have a K-er in APS, and I would say there was a lot of emphasis on Christmas. We are also Jewish and I found myself having to remind my kid that we don’t celebrate Christmas or get presents from Santa on Christmas. He was pretty disappointed. That said I don’t really blame the school or the teacher. The kids are constantly talking among themselves about Santa and Presents and various special activities so it’s impossible to avoid the hype. I think as kids get older it will get easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

The discussions in Spanish class about Jesus, the wise men and the nativity scene need to be brought to the principal's attention. I'd also bring up the weekslong focus on Christmas related activities. My kid's school has winter related activities (a winter party, making snowflakes, snowmen, gingerbread people/houses). You need to discuss it with the principle because talking to this year's teacher does nothing about your concerns for next year. As to the poster who suggested Jewish education classes, I agree. We all need to send our kids to religious education outside of school, and keep religion (including things about the baby Jesus) out of public schools.

I'm not religious at all and I agree.

Why not art work of what their families do in the winter? If that brings up religion... then it does. Each child's. Years ago my son's classmate couldn't have her art work on the bulletin board because she drew her family by the Christmas tree. That went too far IMO.

Op you need to talk to the teacher. The nativity story in public school? No.

There are so many winter based themes. Or use family themes for a project. No reason for it to be Christmas specific. Snowmen, skating, skiing, tobogganing, etc. I remember seeing one bulletin board decorated with a garland of mittens the kids had colored, and then pictures of them doing their favorite winter activity.

There are so many options. Save Christmas for outside of school, unless everyone can share their traditions.

So what happens if a kindergarten asks "what does Nativity mean?" after her classmate says they put up their Nativity?

Why can't a teacher answer that question? Their job is to create culturally literate kids and knowing the definition of Nativity along with a general lowdown of the story behind it is just basic cultural literacy.

What if the teacher doesn't know? I couldn't answer that. It wasn't part of my culture growing up. Not something we ever discussed at home.

[Anonymous]

It's not obvious, but Christmas isn't the biggest Christian holiday of the year. That is Easter. Christmas is the biggest cultural holiday of the year, with traditions, gifts/commercialism, nostalgia, etc.

[Anonymous]

The Nativity is religious. Why would you assume the teacher could explain what it is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

The discussions in Spanish class about Jesus, the wise men and the nativity scene need to be brought to the principal's attention. I'd also bring up the weekslong focus on Christmas related activities. My kid's school has winter related activities (a winter party, making snowflakes, snowmen, gingerbread people/houses). You need to discuss it with the principle because talking to this year's teacher does nothing about your concerns for next year. As to the poster who suggested Jewish education classes, I agree. We all need to send our kids to religious education outside of school, and keep religion (including things about the baby Jesus) out of public schools.

I'm not religious at all and I agree.

Why not art work of what their families do in the winter? If that brings up religion... then it does. Each child's. Years ago my son's classmate couldn't have her art work on the bulletin board because she drew her family by the Christmas tree. That went too far IMO.

Op you need to talk to the teacher. The nativity story in public school? No.

There are so many winter based themes. Or use family themes for a project. No reason for it to be Christmas specific. Snowmen, skating, skiing, tobogganing, etc. I remember seeing one bulletin board decorated with a garland of mittens the kids had colored, and then pictures of them doing their favorite winter activity.

There are so many options. Save Christmas for outside of school, unless everyone can share their traditions.

So what happens if a kindergarten asks "what does Nativity mean?" after her classmate says they put up their Nativity?

Why can't a teacher answer that question? Their job is to create culturally literate kids and knowing the definition of Nativity along with a general lowdown of the story behind it is just basic cultural literacy.

What if the teacher doesn't know? I couldn't answer that. It wasn't part of my culture growing up. Not something we ever discussed at home.

Then the teacher could say: I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not obvious, but Christmas isn't the biggest Christian holiday of the year. That is Easter. Christmas is the biggest cultural holiday of the year, with traditions, gifts/commercialism, nostalgia, etc.

Very true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still OP... eAnd to the posters who were down on Chanukah, my goal here isn’t Jewish/Hindu/other religious based crafts (yes, Christmas is religious). I want mostly secular in public school (some christmas like caroling, a craft or two is fine). Just so everyone is included and there is not putting minorities against majorities, etc. just basically what’s suppose to happen with that separation of church and state.

That is not separation of Church and State. Separation of Church and State means that the state does not support a specific Church (ie: fund it).

Did you take Con Law from a cereal box? Not having religious education in school is absolutely a key element of separation of church and state. One can reasonably debate whether something is religious or not, but separation of church and state is not limited to providing direct government funds to a specific church.

You cannot study history, politics, current events or basic societal norms in a public school by erasing all information and knowledge of religion and religious traditions.

This is NOT what separation of church and state requires. Strawman argument. No one is arguing that all information and knowledge be erased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not obvious, but Christmas isn't the biggest Christian holiday of the year. That is Easter. Christmas is the biggest cultural holiday of the year, with traditions, gifts/commercialism, nostalgia, etc.

Very true.

But why does this matter for the present discussion? Rose Hashanah is the second biggest Jewish holiday of the year to Yom Kippur, but that wouldn't make pushing it in public school any more appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She made a Christmas tree, a Rudolph ornament and an Elf ornament, and a Santa hat pencil holder. They were gifts from her to us. All the kids had to make the same thing. I would have been fine with one or two Christmas themed and then a snowman, snowflake, etc.

Those are all secular and non religous things.

They learned about menorahs. Did they learn about advent wreaths? That would be an equivalent religious item.

A menorah is religious.

Santa, elves, reindeer and Christmas trees are not.

But it’s all Christmas, a holiday my kid doesn’t celebrate and is excluded from because we are not Christian. Do you get it? The menorah was a 5 min activity. This was all day everyday for a month. And they learned about the nativity, the wise men and baby Jesus.

The discussions in Spanish class about Jesus, the wise men and the nativity scene need to be brought to the principal's attention. I'd also bring up the weekslong focus on Christmas related activities. My kid's school has winter related activities (a winter party, making snowflakes, snowmen, gingerbread people/houses). You need to discuss it with the principle because talking to this year's teacher does nothing about your concerns for next year. As to the poster who suggested Jewish education classes, I agree. We all need to send our kids to religious education outside of school, and keep religion (including things about the baby Jesus) out of public schools.

I'm not religious at all and I agree.

Why not art work of what their families do in the winter? If that brings up religion... then it does. Each child's. Years ago my son's classmate couldn't have her art work on the bulletin board because she drew her family by the Christmas tree. That went too far IMO.

Op you need to talk to the teacher. The nativity story in public school? No.

There are so many winter based themes. Or use family themes for a project. No reason for it to be Christmas specific. Snowmen, skating, skiing, tobogganing, etc. I remember seeing one bulletin board decorated with a garland of mittens the kids had colored, and then pictures of them doing their favorite winter activity.

There are so many options. Save Christmas for outside of school, unless everyone can share their traditions.

So what happens if a kindergarten asks "what does Nativity mean?" after her classmate says they put up their Nativity?

Why can't a teacher answer that question? Their job is to create culturally literate kids and knowing the definition of Nativity along with a general lowdown of the story behind it is just basic cultural literacy.

What if the teacher doesn't know? I couldn't answer that. It wasn't part of my culture growing up. Not something we ever discussed at home.

Then the teacher could say: I don't know.

But according to PP, it's part of the teacher's job to know. It really isn't.

Teacher could have the student give a brief explanation, and then carry on. Just part of classroom discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would also raise it with the teacher. This happened in my kid's DCPS school a couple years ago--it is a majority minority school where the vast majority of families are Christian. A non-Christian family raised concerns about some class activities around Easter. The teacher was a longtime, older teacher. In this case, things got elevated to the principal, but I would at least start with the teacher.

No wonder our kids and young adults can't get along with anyone who does not believe, act, look or vote exactly like them.

We have spent a generation now of our schools teaching that sharing anything and learning about traditions are bad because if we are not 100% the same, we should all get offended and hurt feelings.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still OP... eAnd to the posters who were down on Chanukah, my goal here isn’t Jewish/Hindu/other religious based crafts (yes, Christmas is religious). I want mostly secular in public school (some christmas like caroling, a craft or two is fine). Just so everyone is included and there is not putting minorities against majorities, etc. just basically what’s suppose to happen with that separation of church and state.

That is not separation of Church and State. Separation of Church and State means that the state does not support a specific Church (ie: fund it).

Did you take Con Law from a cereal box? Not having religious education in school is absolutely a key element of separation of church and state. One can reasonably debate whether something is religious or not, but separation of church and state is not limited to providing direct government funds to a specific church.

You cannot study history, politics, current events or basic societal norms in a public school by erasing all information and knowledge of religion and religious traditions.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not obvious, but Christmas isn't the biggest Christian holiday of the year. That is Easter. Christmas is the biggest cultural holiday of the year, with traditions, gifts/commercialism, nostalgia, etc.

Very true.

But why does this matter for the present discussion? Rose Hashanah is the second biggest Jewish holiday of the year to Yom Kippur, but that wouldn't make pushing it in public school any more appropriate.

All of the stuff that OP refers to, the Christmas tree and Rudolph (not the Nativity but that is probably a separate cultural issue), coincide with the Christian holiday but aren't religious. They're cultural/secular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not obvious, but Christmas isn't the biggest Christian holiday of the year. That is Easter. Christmas is the biggest cultural holiday of the year, with traditions, gifts/commercialism, nostalgia, etc.

Very true.

But why does this matter for the present discussion? Rose Hashanah is the second biggest Jewish holiday of the year to Yom Kippur, but that wouldn't make pushing it in public school any more appropriate.

All of the stuff that OP refers to, the Christmas tree and Rudolph (not the Nativity but that is probably a separate cultural issue), coincide with the Christian holiday but aren't religious. They're cultural/secular.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having had kids in 4 different DCPS schools and 1 charter school I call complete BS on this.

I am the OP. I am not making this up. I do think a big part of it is her teacher (who I do like) but she is not originally from America and is from a country where they pretty much ONLY celebrate Christmas, so i am just thinking it’s a cultural thing for her and she just didn’t think about it.

She did attempt with the one Chanukah thing (which all kids did) and did ask anyone who wants to come in and speak about their holidays/backgrounds, which we did. I am surprised about the Spanish nativity thing. I knowit’s big in Spanish culture, but it just seems weird for kindergarten.

A lot of these comments are so weird, which makes me wonder how my criticism will be perceived. I think I will start with the teacher (just so she knows how we feel) and go from there.

It is very common for foreign language instruction to emphasize the culture. My DD's French teacher did a whole thing on Saint Nicholas at the beginning of the month, because apparently it's a common French tradition (or is for her). I would separate that from the overwhelming Christmas-stuff in the regular classtime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not obvious, but Christmas isn't the biggest Christian holiday of the year. That is Easter. Christmas is the biggest cultural holiday of the year, with traditions, gifts/commercialism, nostalgia, etc.

Very true.

But why does this matter for the present discussion? Rose Hashanah is the second biggest Jewish holiday of the year to Yom Kippur, but that wouldn't make pushing it in public school any more appropriate.

And schools should also teach what Rosh Hashanah is.

Again, basic cultural literacy. This is the job of our public schools or they will produce future adults who cannot function in or understand the world when they graduate, as well as people who think it is perfectly acceptable to refuse to interact with or understand those who are different than them.