RM Cluster Overcrowding?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Read my subsequent posts. There's a link there to the county council meeting. The council is talking about a waiver for specific locations to make sure that Rockville Town Square doesn't become a desolate ghost town. More density is needed there. As someone that lives close enough to walk to the town center, I'm all for the waiver. Building more so that a few thousand more residents come to the town square area and it adds 50 more kids to the high school is well worth it. It shouldn't be a big deal in the end anyway since there will be redistricting which will free up space in RM. RM is walking distance to the town center so kids there won't even need to take a bus.

I don't know if you're a Rockville resident or not but if you are, I'd have to assume you were upset when Dawson's closed too. It was alarming when it closed along with several other businesses all at once. That's why so many people went to the meeting at VisArts.

I live near TC. When Dawsons closed it wasn't a big surprise to me. I went there once and was shocked at the prices. That place was over priced. The people who live around the area are not so wealthy that they can spend that much on organic produce all the time when there is a cheaper option a mile away.

I agree it was very expensive but there were several places that all went under at basically the same time. In addition to more density and parking fixes, I think they need other types of stores. An Apple store would drive people to the town center and it would be busy with all the people that work for the government nearby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Read my subsequent posts. There's a link there to the county council meeting. The council is talking about a waiver for specific locations to make sure that Rockville Town Square doesn't become a desolate ghost town. More density is needed there. As someone that lives close enough to walk to the town center, I'm all for the waiver. Building more so that a few thousand more residents come to the town square area and it adds 50 more kids to the high school is well worth it. It shouldn't be a big deal in the end anyway since there will be redistricting which will free up space in RM. RM is walking distance to the town center so kids there won't even need to take a bus.

I don't know if you're a Rockville resident or not but if you are, I'd have to assume you were upset when Dawson's closed too. It was alarming when it closed along with several other businesses all at once. That's why so many people went to the meeting at VisArts.

I live near TC. When Dawsons closed it wasn't a big surprise to me. I went there once and was shocked at the prices. That place was over priced. The people who live around the area are not so wealthy that they can spend that much on organic produce all the time when there is a cheaper option a mile away.

I agree it was very expensive but there were several places that all went under at basically the same time. In addition to more density and parking fixes, I think they need other types of stores. An Apple store would drive people to the town center and it would be busy with all the people that work for the government nearby.

I agree that they need better stores there, but that's not up to Rockville. That's up to the Federal Reality. Plus, from what I understand, the city and/or the residents don't want big chain stores there. They want to help the little stores which is why they fail given that the lease is pretty expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So ridiculous. more density is NOT going to fix Rockville Town Center.

People in the area do not go to Town Center because of the ridiculous parking fees and overly enthusiastic parking enforcement. Who is eating at Mellow Mushroom when you can drive up the pike for easy, free parking at a million other restaurants?

They were had been planning for a park near a rockville Town Center but that green space is no longer in the picture.

People with kids and dogs want parks nearby. And some space.

The push for high density housing is misguided.

Unless you need more than 2 hours for your pizza, it is free (if it had not closed). I would never deal with the Pike when I can go RTC...2 hours is plenty of time for me to eat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LOL, MCPS will fool everyone by adding hypothetical placeholder to not have moratorium. City of Rockville will go along with that. Kids will suffer. No one cares about them.

No, that's not how the process works.

What is a placeholder “solution?”
• Funding approved by the County Council for an as yet undefined project
that is under assessment by MCPS.
• Counts as funded capacity, thus preventing potential moratorium.
• Funding is typically not requested by MCPS.
• Funding is typically programmed in the out years of the CIP.
• While the placeholder implies that MCPS will pursue an addition at the
school, in reality, the scope of the real project is unknown because MCPS
has not fully determined the appropriate solution to the enrollment issue.
• The ultimate solution could be larger and more expensive than the
placeholder, or might not even involve a capital project.

http://montgomeryplanning.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/20180621AnnualSchoolTestPBPres.pdf

I've bolded the relevant part.

However, as the PP said, Rockville is an incorporated municipality with its own planning authority, so they make their own decisions about thresholds and waivers for building moratoriums.

As I understand it, the MCPS CIP has funding for the first step (planning) for the high school at Crown, beginning in July 2019.

Placeholders are most useless thing to solve anything. There have been many cases where placeholders were placed for improvements when it's clear that school had no place to do addition. That was just a way around to not have building moratorium. Why even put placeholder dodge moratorium when placeholder won't fix anything.

Key word here is undefined project. Undefined project are not going to solve crowing problem. Elected officials are too close to developers and none of them care about kids getting proper education. Project has to be clearly defined to solve crowding issue otherwise we are just fooling residents.

RM has science lab in cart. And we want to add more students before we solve current problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ridiculous. more density is NOT going to fix Rockville Town Center.

People in the area do not go to Town Center because of the ridiculous parking fees and overly enthusiastic parking enforcement. Who is eating at Mellow Mushroom when you can drive up the pike for easy, free parking at a million other restaurants?

They were had been planning for a park near a rockville Town Center but that green space is no longer in the picture.

People with kids and dogs want parks nearby. And some space.

The push for high density housing is misguided.

And in the council meeting they discussed parking. That’s another thing they are trying to address. One of the council members asked for the cost to the city to have three hour free parking without validation so people could go to Regal and eat dinner.

To answer your question, no one is going to Mellow Mushroom. They are out of business.

I disagree with your opinion on density. While I do agree parking needs fixed, I believe more people living nearby would help. IMO the spot with the Exxon would be a good location for another building. People living in the town center can always walk to Welsh Park.

Exactly. That’s why I said Mellow Mushroom. Nobody went to Mellow Mushroom because it’s more of a hassle than parking someplace else down the Pike or at Rio/Kentlands.

Montgomery County is a suburban county and many people dislike the trend towards urbanization that all this high density development is bringing. Like it or not, people still want to be able to hop in their car and run their errands.

Put more apartments and condos and town center and they will remain empty. There are still empty units at Pike and Rose and at Twinbrook and at Shady Grove and at White Flint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ridiculous. more density is NOT going to fix Rockville Town Center.

People in the area do not go to Town Center because of the ridiculous parking fees and overly enthusiastic parking enforcement. Who is eating at Mellow Mushroom when you can drive up the pike for easy, free parking at a million other restaurants?

They were had been planning for a park near a rockville Town Center but that green space is no longer in the picture.

People with kids and dogs want parks nearby. And some space.

The push for high density housing is misguided.

Unless you need more than 2 hours for your pizza, it is free (if it had not closed). I would never deal with the Pike when I can go RTC...2 hours is plenty of time for me to eat.

So, that’s what they want? They want you to run in for pizza and leave. I thought they wanted it to be a ‘destination’ type place with the library and ice rink. Where people come to hang out and spend some time and money.

If the point is that people can run in and out for Pizza, then again, I’m going to one of the other places in the area where I don’t have to worry if I do spend over an hour. Don’t they want people to come and have a few drinks and meet with friends and spend a few hours there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ridiculous. more density is NOT going to fix Rockville Town Center.

People in the area do not go to Town Center because of the ridiculous parking fees and overly enthusiastic parking enforcement. Who is eating at Mellow Mushroom when you can drive up the pike for easy, free parking at a million other restaurants?

They were had been planning for a park near a rockville Town Center but that green space is no longer in the picture.

People with kids and dogs want parks nearby. And some space.

The push for high density housing is misguided.

And in the council meeting they discussed parking. That’s another thing they are trying to address. One of the council members asked for the cost to the city to have three hour free parking without validation so people could go to Regal and eat dinner.

To answer your question, no one is going to Mellow Mushroom. They are out of business.

I disagree with your opinion on density. While I do agree parking needs fixed, I believe more people living nearby would help. IMO the spot with the Exxon would be a good location for another building. People living in the town center can always walk to Welsh Park.

Exactly. That’s why I said Mellow Mushroom. Nobody went to Mellow Mushroom because it’s more of a hassle than parking someplace else down the Pike or at Rio/Kentlands.

Montgomery County is a suburban county and many people dislike the trend towards urbanization that all this high density development is bringing. Like it or not, people still want to be able to hop in their car and run their errands.

Put more apartments and condos and town center and they will remain empty. There are still empty units at Pike and Rose and at Twinbrook and at Shady Grove and at White Flint.

Rental units at Rockville town center are much cheaper than Pike and Rose so a much larger population can afford to live there and they still get metro walkable. There are plenty of places in the county that is typical suburban. I’m not sure why you want to dictate to Rockville that they need to be like Potomac or whatever. Just move to Potomac if that’s the lifestyle you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Placeholders are most useless thing to solve anything. There have been many cases where placeholders were placed for improvements when it's clear that school had no place to do addition. That was just a way around to not have building moratorium. Why even put placeholder dodge moratorium when placeholder won't fix anything.

Key word here is undefined project. Undefined project are not going to solve crowing problem. Elected officials are too close to developers and none of them care about kids getting proper education. Project has to be clearly defined to solve crowding issue otherwise we are just fooling residents.

RM has science lab in cart. And we want to add more students before we solve current problem?

There is money for Crown HS. That is a defined project. The solution for the current problem is already underway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Exactly. That’s why I said Mellow Mushroom. Nobody went to Mellow Mushroom because it’s more of a hassle than parking someplace else down the Pike or at Rio/Kentlands.

Montgomery County is a suburban county and many people dislike the trend towards urbanization that all this high density development is bringing. Like it or not, people still want to be able to hop in their car and run their errands.

Put more apartments and condos and town center and they will remain empty. There are still empty units at Pike and Rose and at Twinbrook and at Shady Grove and at White Flint.

Some people do. Other people don't. There is room for both in the county. If a business can stay open based primarily on customers who walk or bike, then that's good for the business, it's good for the customers who walk or bike to the business, and it's good for you -- because all those people aren't in their cars sharing the road with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ridiculous. more density is NOT going to fix Rockville Town Center.

People in the area do not go to Town Center because of the ridiculous parking fees and overly enthusiastic parking enforcement. Who is eating at Mellow Mushroom when you can drive up the pike for easy, free parking at a million other restaurants?

They were had been planning for a park near a rockville Town Center but that green space is no longer in the picture.

People with kids and dogs want parks nearby. And some space.

The push for high density housing is misguided.

And in the council meeting they discussed parking. That’s another thing they are trying to address. One of the council members asked for the cost to the city to have three hour free parking without validation so people could go to Regal and eat dinner.

To answer your question, no one is going to Mellow Mushroom. They are out of business.

I disagree with your opinion on density. While I do agree parking needs fixed, I believe more people living nearby would help. IMO the spot with the Exxon would be a good location for another building. People living in the town center can always walk to Welsh Park.

Exactly. That’s why I said Mellow Mushroom. Nobody went to Mellow Mushroom because it’s more of a hassle than parking someplace else down the Pike or at Rio/Kentlands.

Montgomery County is a suburban county and many people dislike the trend towards urbanization that all this high density development is bringing. Like it or not, people still want to be able to hop in their car and run their errands.

Put more apartments and condos and town center and they will remain empty. There are still empty units at Pike and Rose and at Twinbrook and at Shady Grove and at White Flint.

Rental units at Rockville town center are much cheaper than Pike and Rose so a much larger population can afford to live there and they still get metro walkable. There are plenty of places in the county that is typical suburban. I’m not sure why you want to dictate to Rockville that they need to be like Potomac or whatever. Just move to Potomac if that’s the lifestyle you want.

I’m not trying to dictate anything. Just pointing out that more high density development is not a cure-all and leads to more problems than it solves (like, overcrowded schools, which affects other parts of the County).

The residents at Rockville Town Center argues for a green space for the one site and instead, they were promised another high rise building.

A park would be a more welcome addition than another sterile housing complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So ridiculous. more density is NOT going to fix Rockville Town Center.

People in the area do not go to Town Center because of the ridiculous parking fees and overly enthusiastic parking enforcement. Who is eating at Mellow Mushroom when you can drive up the pike for easy, free parking at a million other restaurants?

They were had been planning for a park near a rockville Town Center but that green space is no longer in the picture.

People with kids and dogs want parks nearby. And some space.

The push for high density housing is misguided.

And in the council meeting they discussed parking. That’s another thing they are trying to address. One of the council members asked for the cost to the city to have three hour free parking without validation so people could go to Regal and eat dinner.

To answer your question, no one is going to Mellow Mushroom. They are out of business.

I disagree with your opinion on density. While I do agree parking needs fixed, I believe more people living nearby would help. IMO the spot with the Exxon would be a good location for another building. People living in the town center can always walk to Welsh Park.

Exactly. That’s why I said Mellow Mushroom. Nobody went to Mellow Mushroom because it’s more of a hassle than parking someplace else down the Pike or at Rio/Kentlands.

Montgomery County is a suburban county and many people dislike the trend towards urbanization that all this high density development is bringing. Like it or not, people still want to be able to hop in their car and run their errands.

Put more apartments and condos and town center and they will remain empty. There are still empty units at Pike and Rose and at Twinbrook and at Shady Grove and at White Flint.

Rental units at Rockville town center are much cheaper than Pike and Rose so a much larger population can afford to live there and they still get metro walkable. There are plenty of places in the county that is typical suburban. I’m not sure why you want to dictate to Rockville that they need to be like Potomac or whatever. Just move to Potomac if that’s the lifestyle you want.

I’m not trying to dictate anything. Just pointing out that more high density development is not a cure-all and leads to more problems than it solves (like, overcrowded schools, which affects other parts of the County).

The residents at Rockville Town Center argues for a green space for the one site and instead, they were promised another high rise building.

A park would be a more welcome addition than another sterile housing complex.

I agree it’s not a cure all. In fact, the council discussed parking at that meeting as well. I suggest you watch the council meeting. They discuss a lot of things. Including density, parking, schools, etc. Without the waiver, according to the meeting, the moratorium goes into effect next year.
Like I said, take a walk up N Washington the west on North St. quick 10 min walk and you’re at Welsh Park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m not trying to dictate anything. Just pointing out that more high density development is not a cure-all and leads to more problems than it solves (like, overcrowded schools, which affects other parts of the County).

The residents at Rockville Town Center argues for a green space for the one site and instead, they were promised another high rise building.

A park would be a more welcome addition than another sterile housing complex.

People talk about "high density development" and "high rise buildings" at Rockville Town Center as though it were Manhattan or Hong Kong.

And yes, generally, nobody who already lives [somewhere] wants more housing there. I'm here, that's enough, shut the door and build a park.

The alternative to more density in already-developed places is more sprawl in former farm fields. That's what really leads to more problems than it solves.

[Anonymous]

I think the City said there is a certain density that is needed to support a grocery store. The original plans for RTC were larger and enough for a grocery. The current version is not. I do not understand how people are complaining about expensive parking. Did you need more than 2 hours to eat your Mellow Mushroom pizza. My Rockville family was thrilled to go to RTC rather than deal with the crazy traffic on the pike to avoid validating a parking ticket?? I also think people say they want small shops and maybe like to browse in them...but that is not where they are actually shopping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the City said there is a certain density that is needed to support a grocery store. The original plans for RTC were larger and enough for a grocery. The current version is not. I do not understand how people are complaining about expensive parking. Did you need more than 2 hours to eat your Mellow Mushroom pizza. My Rockville family was thrilled to go to RTC rather than deal with the crazy traffic on the pike to avoid validating a parking ticket?? I also think people say they want small shops and maybe like to browse in them...but that is not where they are actually shopping.

I think the parking falls into several categories. First, many people don’t know about validation and it’s not necessarily offered. Second, 2hrs isn’t long enough for dinner and a movie. Third, people complain about $40 fines for being a minute late. The council is talking about 3hrs free parking without validation, a single warning per vehicle prior to issuing a fine. These two thing alone would go a long way to making RTC more friendly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the City said there is a certain density that is needed to support a grocery store. The original plans for RTC were larger and enough for a grocery. The current version is not. I do not understand how people are complaining about expensive parking. Did you need more than 2 hours to eat your Mellow Mushroom pizza. My Rockville family was thrilled to go to RTC rather than deal with the crazy traffic on the pike to avoid validating a parking ticket?? I also think people say they want small shops and maybe like to browse in them...but that is not where they are actually shopping.

I think the parking falls into several categories. First, many people don’t know about validation and it’s not necessarily offered. Second, 2hrs isn’t long enough for dinner and a movie. Third, people complain about $40 fines for being a minute late. The council is talking about 3hrs free parking without validation, a single warning per vehicle prior to issuing a fine. These two thing alone would go a long way to making RTC more friendly.

Agreed parking is an issue for the movie theatre and other business not actually in the town center. We go to Rio for cheaper movie tickets and free parking almost every time.