How do you know a man will be violent?

[Anonymous]

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

[Anonymous]

To respond to the question, the one guy who actually scared me and made me worry about being stalked:

Told me that he had big arguments with his ex wives
Told that he couldn’t wait until we had our first fight
Told me that he’d gotten into fist fights with several guys within the past few years
Accused me (wrongly) of cheating on him
Called me repeatedly one day to send insist that he wanted to drive me to the airport (middle of a workday)
Had a parent who was an addict and abandoned the family

This all happened over the course of 4 dates in 4 weeks, where I went from “he’d be fine to casually hang out with” (after hearing about his past marriages) to “shit this guy is really scary and I need to figure out how to stop seeing him without setting him off”.

Looking back now, I can say that I was stupid for going on a third date with him (I didn’t learn any of the above on the first date, other than having two ex’s). But I’ve never been in an abusive relationship, never dated anyone who told me he got into fist fights, and didn’t come from a dysfunctional family. So while I knew that he wasn’t long term relationship material, it didn’t immediately occur to me that he could be violent towards me too. His behavior towards me was fine until the day I was leaving town and he started getting weird about that and then accused me of cheating. For some reason, it just took time for my brain to process that his history of violence would put me in danger at some point.

[Anonymous]

I went out on two dates with someone and their emotional immaturity, history of arrest for drinking and driving, admittance of a temper often leading to damaging their own property (e.g., electronics), and undertones of racism made me view each of those flags as indicators of a higher likelihood’s of abusive (violent or non-violent) potential. I too cut things off once I received anough signals.

In the past, I was naive and young and may have made excuses. Surely, there are people who’ve experienced all of those examples above, and never have or would cause physical or emotional harm to another person.

My thought is this: When dating - why take the risk? The cycle of abuse is a hard one to jump off of if you’ve ever been caught in one.

[Anonymous]

SN: Spell check is crap. Is anough even a word? What idiot Vicki programmer would suggest autocorrecting the word “enough” to “anough”? I suppose it’s for the best that the function doesn't autocorrect” grammar. Off soapbox. Carry on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I hear about these stories where wives or girlfriends are killed or hurt by their husbands/boyfriends I always wonder how do they end up in these situations?

Do the men just snap? Or is there a pattern or signs one should be aware of?

One of the things that was common to all 3 cases, Scott Peterson who killed his pregnant wife, Drew Peterson who killed a couple of wives and this latest case in Denver is that all 3 men were cheaters. So don’t date men who cheat. Scott Peterson’s mistress at the time of his wife’s murder had no idea that he was married.

Again, the advice given to women to avoid abuse is ridiculous. Yes, if you know a guy has cheated, don't date him, but your typical woman has no idea that the man she is dating will cheat on her. If you had asked me to predict whether my now exDH would cheat on me, that would have been the last thing I would ever have thought.

Many people think that women have some kind of Cassandra-like powers to predict the future -- he said a critical thing to me, therefore he will hit me or I can divine that he will cheat on me. That may be true in some situations, but in the vast majority of abuse and cheating cases, there were no signs.

Once I saw the signs, I started tracking my then DH like a detective, and what I found out was extremely disturbing, but I never would have found it all out if I hadn't gone to the very unusual step of tracking his moves in the real world and online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty sure you don't really understand healthy relationships.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty sure you don't really understand healthy relationships.

And it's pretty obvious that most of the women on here who have been in abusive relationships don't understand abusive relationships so what's your point?

[Anonymous]

I think we can all agree that it just to boils down to this: If you abuse someone, it's your fault. If you stick around after the first few abuses you incure, it's your fault. Don't bore us with all the reasons WHY you felt compelled to stay. No one can treat you any worse than you allow them to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we can all agree that it just to boils down to this: If you abuse someone, it's your fault. If you stick around after the first few abuses you incure, it's your fault. Don't bore us with all the reasons WHY you felt compelled to stay. No one can treat you any worse than you allow them to.

Totally agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty sure you don't really understand healthy relationships.

I'm sure I understand better than you - you who think 'all the signs exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive". You seem to think it's like magic to identify an unhealthy relationship. It's not. There has been a lot of research on it.

[Anonymous]

I used to be involved with a BPD woman. BPDs are incredibly manipulative. They are also perceptive. Their own survival depends on knowing who is a BPD like them, and who is the opposite. They are amoral. They will come to know your weak points. They use that against you, so you are pretty much trapped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FU. There are often no signs at all. Do you think women are stupid? do you think women want to be hit? I dated someone 4 years and lived with him for 1 before he threatened to beat the crap out of me the first time. He raised his hand but didn't hit me. I told him at the time that if he ever laid a finger on me, I would call the cops and have him tossed out so fast it would make his head spin.

3 years later he threatened to beat the crap out of me again and I ended things. He was increasingly subtley abusive, jealous and control in front of all his friends and family members. If they didn't find it apalling, why should I have? He was charming when he wanted to be and when he was cruel he was always apologetic and tried to make up for it. He was always totally into me - proposed, great ring, wanted to have kids.

This is how they reel you in - smooth in the beginning, isolate you from your own peers, try to get you tied down economically so you can't leave and tie you to them with kids. It's the rare abuser who starts out hitting you.

The bolded is the gist of how it happens. Often, abusers push for commitment quickly. It seems like a whirlwind. Over a period of months, they test you with insults and physical aggression to find out what you will take. Over time, the victim of this abuse starts wearing down, cuts off family and friends and the abuser is in full control. The only variable is how often and how severely he beats you. Verbal, financial and emotional abuse are also in play.

So, contrary to what the first PP said, there actually ARE signs - lots of signs but the 'victim' chooses to ignore/overlook them.

It's not that the victim ignores them. Predators choose their victims. They look for vulnerabilities and then exploit them. It starts out so subtly and fom many angles that, by the time the violence starts, the victim is in so deep it is extremely difficult to get out.

But it doesn't mean there aren't signs!

There may be a sign here and there, but it’s easier to see them and understand what they really were about in hindsight. Their ‘off’ behavior can be excused by thinking he’s had a bad day, he’s not feeling well, it really was my fault and so on.....things normal people will think because trusting people will give someone they know the benefit of the doubt and give another chance. Abusers often are on their best behavior during the courtship and will not show the depths of their true colors until after the committment is made.

We shouldn’t be bashing the victim. Maybe it makes you feel better to say she should have seen it coming, but that takes the focus off where it should be — that the abusive partner should not be abusing.

Every woman must read The Gift of Fear. One of De Becker's points is that women have been conditioned to disregard their own intuition. Their intuition tells them the guy is bad ju ju, but they've been so socialized, they ignore it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty sure you don't really understand healthy relationships.

And it's pretty obvious that most of the women on here who have been in abusive relationships don't understand abusive relationships so what's your point?

It's pretty clear very few abused or not understand the "signs" of abuse but like to think they can't become a victim because they "know better" or would leave the second he says "wow your brother is an invinsiderate dolt".

[Anonymous]

Inconsiderate•

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No, that is not the real issue. The real issue is that our culture has broadly accepted and normalized abuse from men. Marital rape wasn't prosecutable until 1973. Date rape is still largely unprosecutable and even when prosecuted is largely unpunished. The #metoo movement demonstrates the extent to which sexual assault and harrassment is embedded in our culture and relationships. And our economic disempowerment (lower wages, less career mobility, no maternity leave, no widely available reasonable childcare, poor levels of child support post-divorce, and unequal parental burden-sharing) makes it very hard to leave an abusive relationship, especially before the hitting starts.

But sure, blame male abuse on dumb women with low self-esteem.


And once again you are missing the point because you're so intent on placing blame somewhere. Nobody is debating whether or not abuse is wrong. Nobody is debating whether abuse is the fault of the abuser or the victim. We are discussing how someone could identify a potential abuser and the answer is that there are almost always many, many signs in the abuser's behavior. Those signs exist regardless of whether the victim recognizes them for what they are.


Once again you are missing the point. All the "signs" exist in normally developing relationships that never are abusive.

The answer is, it's very hard because the signs are also things that happen in normal relationships and only 20/20 in hindsight.

Also, many women stay to protect their children from abuse because the best abusers don't leave behind "evidence" for court and courts are still run by men, who are abusers, and don't recognize the "signs".

DP. I grew up in a very violent, abusive family. I assure you that the 'signs' of a potentially abusive partner are NOT in a healthy relationship. I am not saying healthy relationships cannot have problems. The difference is in how problems are addressed, the quality of communications and the respect partners show each other, especially when they are unhappy or angry. While YOU and others with little experience may not recognize the signs except in hindsight, that does not mean they are not present and it does not mean healthy relationships have the same/similar signs.

I'm pretty sure you don't really understand healthy relationships.

And it's pretty obvious that most of the women on here who have been in abusive relationships don't understand abusive relationships so what's your point?

It's pretty clear very few abused or not understand the "signs" of abuse but like to think they can't become a victim because they "know better" or would leave the second he says "wow your brother is an invinsiderate dolt".

Here we go with the excuses again. Yes, if someone abuses you once and then twice and then a third time and you DO NOT LEAVE then you are part of your own problem.