Is anyone raising a teen diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every child I know with ODD was proclaimed "advanced" by parents, who blamed their behavior on their superior intellect. Predictable results.

Kids who are advanced often have less tolerance for rules and don't defer to adults the way average children do. They question, challenge, and are often a royal pain in the a$$.

Please stop. Both my kids have been through multiple magnet programs, and this "my snowflake is too good for your classroom rules" attitude is fortunately rare, but you do occasionally see it and it's appalling when you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

[Anonymous]

The type of home life and parenting that is required for kids with ODD to be successful is often the type that parents just don't want to do and I don't blame them.

A very small world and consistent routine for years on end is what can be very helpful. This can mean no sports, no classes, no extras on the weekends, same school, same camp (if needed) every year. Weekends have to have the exact same routine. Not a lot of outings and if there are they must be the same ones all the time.

Even when parents manage to do that, what can happen is that their child's behavior stabilizes because they child's anxiety has been greatly reduced and they feel "in control". It's of course an artificial control bc it's the parents scheduling that makes the child's life so rigid. But parents see their child stable and assume he/she is now ready to do all the things NT peers can and it's not the case. There is always the option of introducing something new in the schedule but the adjustment period can be long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The type of home life and parenting that is required for kids with ODD to be successful is often the type that parents just don't want to do and I don't blame them.

A very small world and consistent routine for years on end is what can be very helpful. This can mean no sports, no classes, no extras on the weekends, same school, same camp (if needed) every year. Weekends have to have the exact same routine. Not a lot of outings and if there are they must be the same ones all the time.

Even when parents manage to do that, what can happen is that their child's behavior stabilizes because they child's anxiety has been greatly reduced and they feel "in control". It's of course an artificial control bc it's the parents scheduling that makes the child's life so rigid. But parents see their child stable and assume he/she is now ready to do all the things NT peers can and it's not the case. There is always the option of introducing something new in the schedule but the adjustment period can be long.

Is there ANY support for this at all? Severely restricting an "ODD" teenager like this seems like a recipe for severe rebellion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

"Watching me"? What does that mean? That sounds creepy. Are you creepy?

My personal experience does in fact contribute to my viewpoint on this. But, it's also supported by research (all the links I posted above), plus common sense. And at any rate, I don't deny at all that there may be some kids for whom the label fits, or at least is useful because it helps guide the parents to appropriate treatment (which of course includes their own parenting skills -- also belying your claim that it's a phenomenon totally internal to the child). My main point is that ODD is likely very over-diagnosed; and that there's no way you can competently diagnose ODD without taking a close look at the family dynamic, existence of trauma, poor parenting, or abuse. I wonder why that makes you defensive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

"Watching me"? What does that mean? That sounds creepy. Are you creepy?

My personal experience does in fact contribute to my viewpoint on this. But, it's also supported by research (all the links I posted above), plus common sense. And at any rate, I don't deny at all that there may be some kids for whom the label fits, or at least is useful because it helps guide the parents to appropriate treatment (which of course includes their own parenting skills -- also belying your claim that it's a phenomenon totally internal to the child). My main point is that ODD is likely very over-diagnosed; and that there's no way you can competently diagnose ODD without taking a close look at the family dynamic, existence of trauma, poor parenting, or abuse. I wonder why that makes you defensive?

Jeez, Louise. I never said it was "totally internal" to the child. I was just pushing back against your claim that it's totally down to the parents, cherry-picked stories aside.

You're the defensive one, sweetie. You seem like a real piece of work--snarky and blaming others. Are your parents responsible for this?

My kids are doing great, thanks for asking. I'm just bored and tired of your self-serving attacks on others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

"Watching me"? What does that mean? That sounds creepy. Are you creepy?

My personal experience does in fact contribute to my viewpoint on this. But, it's also supported by research (all the links I posted above), plus common sense. And at any rate, I don't deny at all that there may be some kids for whom the label fits, or at least is useful because it helps guide the parents to appropriate treatment (which of course includes their own parenting skills -- also belying your claim that it's a phenomenon totally internal to the child). My main point is that ODD is likely very over-diagnosed; and that there's no way you can competently diagnose ODD without taking a close look at the family dynamic, existence of trauma, poor parenting, or abuse. I wonder why that makes you defensive?

Jeez, Louise. I never said it was "totally internal" to the child. I was just pushing back against your claim that it's totally down to the parents, cherry-picked stories aside.

You're the defensive one, sweetie. You seem like a real piece of work--snarky and blaming others. Are your parents responsible for this?

My kids are doing great, thanks for asking. I'm just bored and tired of your self-serving attacks on others.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute? Because I've contributed personal experience and a wealth of links substantiating my points. Plus, overall, I agree that ODD can be an actual diagnosis in some selective cases. It sounds like you're just annoyed at the thought that parents could ever be responsible for their child's behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

"Watching me"? What does that mean? That sounds creepy. Are you creepy?

My personal experience does in fact contribute to my viewpoint on this. But, it's also supported by research (all the links I posted above), plus common sense. And at any rate, I don't deny at all that there may be some kids for whom the label fits, or at least is useful because it helps guide the parents to appropriate treatment (which of course includes their own parenting skills -- also belying your claim that it's a phenomenon totally internal to the child). My main point is that ODD is likely very over-diagnosed; and that there's no way you can competently diagnose ODD without taking a close look at the family dynamic, existence of trauma, poor parenting, or abuse. I wonder why that makes you defensive?

Jeez, Louise. I never said it was "totally internal" to the child. I was just pushing back against your claim that it's totally down to the parents, cherry-picked stories aside.

You're the defensive one, sweetie. You seem like a real piece of work--snarky and blaming others. Are your parents responsible for this?

My kids are doing great, thanks for asking. I'm just bored and tired of your self-serving attacks on others.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute? Because I've contributed personal experience and a wealth of links substantiating my points. Plus, overall, I agree that ODD can be an actual diagnosis in some selective cases. It sounds like you're just annoyed at the thought that parents could ever be responsible for their child's behavior.

I'll stop posting when you stop twisting my words and others' words. Then I won't have to keep setting the record straight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

"Watching me"? What does that mean? That sounds creepy. Are you creepy?

My personal experience does in fact contribute to my viewpoint on this. But, it's also supported by research (all the links I posted above), plus common sense. And at any rate, I don't deny at all that there may be some kids for whom the label fits, or at least is useful because it helps guide the parents to appropriate treatment (which of course includes their own parenting skills -- also belying your claim that it's a phenomenon totally internal to the child). My main point is that ODD is likely very over-diagnosed; and that there's no way you can competently diagnose ODD without taking a close look at the family dynamic, existence of trauma, poor parenting, or abuse. I wonder why that makes you defensive?

Jeez, Louise. I never said it was "totally internal" to the child. I was just pushing back against your claim that it's totally down to the parents, cherry-picked stories aside.

You're the defensive one, sweetie. You seem like a real piece of work--snarky and blaming others. Are your parents responsible for this?

My kids are doing great, thanks for asking. I'm just bored and tired of your self-serving attacks on others.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute? Because I've contributed personal experience and a wealth of links substantiating my points. Plus, overall, I agree that ODD can be an actual diagnosis in some selective cases. It sounds like you're just annoyed at the thought that parents could ever be responsible for their child's behavior.

I'll stop posting when you stop twisting my words and others' words. Then I won't have to keep setting the record straight.

NP observing this exchange. The other poster isn't twisting your words; the other poster is exposing the flaws in your arguments. I think you should stop while you're, uh, behind.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:And if the parenting is so bad such that the child is diagnosed with ODD, how do you suppose that suddenly they will be good enough to master your espoused approach? It doesn't work that way. The child made his or her way into an ODD diagnosis because of environmental factors such as poor parenting. ODD is not a biologic condition, it is behavioral, and behavior is shaped by parents.

It can work that way, thank heavens. Parents who have a child who is extremely oppositional are not (necessarily) bad at parenting, and very likely are doing a great job with their non ODD children. But it takes exceptional parenting skills to parent a child with symptoms of ODD. They don't "suddenly" become good at it -- it takes training, and learning specific skills.

Or you can be crappy parents with some children who internalize the trauma and stress and seem "good." Whereas the "ODD" child externalizes the dysfunction and becomes the family's identified patient. I actually think my "ODD" brother ended up better off than the siblings who kept it bottled up inside and then ended up struggling with depression, anxiety, drinking, bad relationships, as young adults.

You keep talking about your own family and projecting your personal experiences onto every other family. Have you considered therapy for your own issues? ODD is NOT caused by deficient parenting, but you just don't get it because your judgment has been clouded.
Sad. I feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

I don't doubt that there may be some kids for whom the label of ODD is appropriate and helpful. My only point is that in a disorder inherently related to the environment, any competent therapist needs to first look to the environment to see if the environment is dysfunctional, not the child.

http://www.aamft.org/iMIS15/AAMFT/Content/consumer_updates/child_abuse_and_neglect.aspx

"Children who suffer abuse and neglect are often diagnosed with: Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD), Conduct Disorder (CD), Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and depressive and anxiety related disorders. Some will act out sexually or be sexually abusive to others."

You're taking one potential piece of the picture and trying to make it the entire picture for every single kid. You refuse to accept that on some cases, the parenting is good but the kid's problems stem from internal issues like anxiety and depression.

Alright then the kid has anxiety or depression. Not ODD.

You don't understand much about psychology, do you? Or you have a personal need to ignore all possible causes besides parenting.

I think you don't understand much about psychology. All you can say is that ODD is a symptom of anxiety and depression. That makes no sense. A symptom is not a disease. You sound like you're invested in displacing your family dysfunction on your child and calling him ODD.

Neither of my kids has ODD, or even close. I've just been watching you and your personal need to find parental rather than internal causes.

"Watching me"? What does that mean? That sounds creepy. Are you creepy?

My personal experience does in fact contribute to my viewpoint on this. But, it's also supported by research (all the links I posted above), plus common sense. And at any rate, I don't deny at all that there may be some kids for whom the label fits, or at least is useful because it helps guide the parents to appropriate treatment (which of course includes their own parenting skills -- also belying your claim that it's a phenomenon totally internal to the child). My main point is that ODD is likely very over-diagnosed; and that there's no way you can competently diagnose ODD without taking a close look at the family dynamic, existence of trauma, poor parenting, or abuse. I wonder why that makes you defensive?

Jeez, Louise. I never said it was "totally internal" to the child. I was just pushing back against your claim that it's totally down to the parents, cherry-picked stories aside.

You're the defensive one, sweetie. You seem like a real piece of work--snarky and blaming others. Are your parents responsible for this?

My kids are doing great, thanks for asking. I'm just bored and tired of your self-serving attacks on others.

Do you have anything substantive to contribute? Because I've contributed personal experience and a wealth of links substantiating my points. Plus, overall, I agree that ODD can be an actual diagnosis in some selective cases. It sounds like you're just annoyed at the thought that parents could ever be responsible for their child's behavior.

I'll stop posting when you stop twisting my words and others' words. Then I won't have to keep setting the record straight.

NP observing this exchange. The other poster isn't twisting your words; the other poster is exposing the flaws in your arguments. I think you should stop while you're, uh, behind.

Read my Jeez Louise post in the exchange right above, where I complain about the word twisting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The type of home life and parenting that is required for kids with ODD to be successful is often the type that parents just don't want to do and I don't blame them.

A very small world and consistent routine for years on end is what can be very helpful. This can mean no sports, no classes, no extras on the weekends, same school, same camp (if needed) every year. Weekends have to have the exact same routine. Not a lot of outings and if there are they must be the same ones all the time.

Even when parents manage to do that, what can happen is that their child's behavior stabilizes because they child's anxiety has been greatly reduced and they feel "in control". It's of course an artificial control bc it's the parents scheduling that makes the child's life so rigid. But parents see their child stable and assume he/she is now ready to do all the things NT peers can and it's not the case. There is always the option of introducing something new in the schedule but the adjustment period can be long.

Is there ANY support for this at all? Severely restricting an "ODD" teenager like this seems like a recipe for severe rebellion.

This has to start early and can't just suddenly start in teenage years. Or it could, but it would be really tough for the first few months.

Remember that a child with ODD is likely to have other comorbid issues as already pointed out. They are not NT kids and the parenting for these kids has to be different. Vastly different.