NOVA Stats for spring '17 UVA, W & M & Tech acceptances (or not)

[Anonymous]

A word to OP - some of the posters on these pages are - ahem - older, and aren't aware of what has been happening on the college scene in the last five to ten years. GMU, for example, now is at a 3.66 GPA to get in (see independent study) and is considered competitive. I know of six young students who really wanted GMU who were turned down there. Like most universities, GMU prides itself on the number of international students it has. All freshman must live in dorms so don't listen to the 1970s garbage about it being a commuter school. It consistently ranks as no 1 in Up and Coming universities Its law school is now no. 40 in the USA. Our DS who had roughly a 3.66 was delighted to get in and has had 3 great years there. He will be starting his four year in computer science (great department) and again living in the dorms. Please look hard at the other in-state schools if you live in-state.
CNU was particularly hot this year amongst friends this year.
http://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/George-Mason-University-admission-requirements

[Anonymous]

GMU was a commuter school in the late 90s/early 2000s when I was in college. Maybe it's changed much more recently, but that reputation is not as old as I am. It's a really good school for public policy, if you want to get into an intelligence agency, and several other programs. It's not on a top-tier or highly selective school.

GMU's law school is very inconsistent. Outside a spike in rankings quite a while ago, it's not considered a top school from which BigLaw recruits. It's not bad and has many great connections into the federal government, but it's not like going to UVA or W&M Law. Some DC branches will recruit from it as a "local" school, but #40 in law is quite different than #40 nationally for undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GMU was a commuter school in the late 90s/early 2000s when I was in college. Maybe it's changed much more recently, but that reputation is not as old as I am. It's a really good school for public policy, if you want to get into an intelligence agency, and several other programs. It's not on a top-tier or highly selective school.

GMU's law school is very inconsistent. Outside a spike in rankings quite a while ago, it's not considered a top school from which BigLaw recruits. It's not bad and has many great connections into the federal government, but it's not like going to UVA or W&M Law. Some DC branches will recruit from it as a "local" school, but #40 in law is quite different than #40 nationally for undergrad.

Dp- I'll have to ask my sibling how he felt about going there in the late 90's. Not sure he'll have time to talk about. He's a 35 year old GS15 and living abroad as a liaison for his agency.

[Anonymous]

See? You are part of the problem You come on here with old knowledge - readily admit you attended 20 years ago and spout your now irrelevant viewpoint Did you check to see and verify what I said about all freshman living inthe dorms? Did you check that the GPA needed to get in is 3.66? Did you check to see the percentage of international students now attending? (which my child has lived with inthe dorm - also students from California, Las Vegas and State of Washington). Did you check on the new finished library, the never-ending building spree The reputation of the Econ, Engineering and computer science school? Did you even read your own school's GPA? How do your experiences 20 years ago help someone TODAY searching for an in-state opportunity for their child? I couldn't even getinto my own SLAC anymore. Here's the wiki just to educate you about what's happening at your own alma mater. Did you know it's rated no. 1 for "up and coming" university. And i disagree with you, I've been in the legal community long enough to have some perspective - what has happened with the law school, now the Scalia Law School which you would know if you paid attention - is nothing short of miraculous. Dont be a Debbie Downer to parents who need to sort out the fabulous opportunities out there for in-state VA residents. We have the second best state-run university system in the USA. Use it for undergrad and save your bucks for law school. http://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/George-Mason-University-admission-requirements

[Anonymous]

GMUs wiki page. BTW, the state legislature is pumping money into the school right and left. The dorms are like hotel rooms. The facilities are all new. This is where you should bet for up-and-coming. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg
e_Mason_University

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See? You are part of the problem You come on here with old knowledge - readily admit you attended 20 years ago and spout your now irrelevant viewpoint Did you check to see and verify what I said about all freshman living inthe dorms? Did you check that the GPA needed to get in is 3.66? Did you check to see the percentage of international students now attending? (which my child has lived with inthe dorm - also students from California, Las Vegas and State of Washington). Did you check on the new finished library, the never-ending building spree The reputation of the Econ, Engineering and computer science school? Did you even read your own school's GPA? How do your experiences 20 years ago help someone TODAY searching for an in-state opportunity for their child? I couldn't even getinto my own SLAC anymore. Here's the wiki just to educate you about what's happening at your own alma mater. Did you know it's rated no. 1 for "up and coming" university. And i disagree with you, I've been in the legal community long enough to have some perspective - what has happened with the law school, now the Scalia Law School which you would know if you paid attention - is nothing short of miraculous. Dont be a Debbie Downer to parents who need to sort out the fabulous opportunities out there for in-state VA residents. We have the second best state-run university system in the USA. Use it for undergrad and save your bucks for law school. http://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colleges/George-Mason-University-admission-requirements

Amen. Stop vilifying other state schools and scaring both applicants and families. GMU, UMW and JMU all average 3.6+ on Naviance from my teen's highly competitive NoVa public. Look for the fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GMU was a commuter school in the late 90s/early 2000s when I was in college. Maybe it's changed much more recently, but that reputation is not as old as I am. It's a really good school for public policy, if you want to get into an intelligence agency, and several other programs. It's not on a top-tier or highly selective school.

GMU's law school is very inconsistent. Outside a spike in rankings quite a while ago, it's not considered a top school from which BigLaw recruits. It's not bad and has many great connections into the federal government, but it's not like going to UVA or W&M Law. Some DC branches will recruit from it as a "local" school, but #40 in law is quite different than #40 nationally for undergrad.

For some reason, only the top 12 or so matter for law school. Law is the profession where your school matters the most, and forever after you graduate. It is pretty bizarre but that's the industry. Top 40 might as well be top 200, really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A. it's really hard to be in the top 10 % in this area. The competition is very very high.
B. we all know kids who had more than a 4.0, head cheerleader, class pres, lots of AP classes and STILL didn't get in to UVA. They reject A LOT of quality applicants. For a state university -- that is hard to take.

Agree.

In my experience in both Arlington and top DC private, being in top 10% involves taking minimum 8 AP/IB classes and getting straight As. And somehow while achieving this, also have to find the time for superlative ECs. Have had three DC fit this criteria, each of whom applied to both W&M and uva. 2 offers from W&M and 2 from uva.

That is really high for a state school. It's great that UVA is so well regarded, but what does it matter if your kid can't get in? I come from a state where a good student can get in to both major state universities without much thought. I've already accepted that my kids aren't going to either UVA or WM. It will be a challenge for VT. I'm planning on GMU and JMU.... or sending them back to the midwest where they can get guaranteed admission and instate tuition as a legacy. Or seriously considering the Nova route to UVA/WM.

Does anyone hear about kids doing that in real life or is it just an idea that no one wants to do?

Can you elaborate on this? If you live in say Virginia, but graduated from U of Midwest, they will let your kid attend for sure and you pay in-state tuition?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bottom line: UVA and W&M affirmatively do not want NOVA applicants or students. They want NOVA tax revenue, but those of us that live here are poison and are to be avoided. A GPA barely above a B+ from a school in seven central Virginia counties, together with standardized test scores in roughly the 75+ percentile, is enough for UVA, from that locality. The NOVA requirements are dramatically higher. UVA and W&M demand, receive, hold, and expend public funds. But they do NOT equally accommodate VA resident applicants by any measure.

THIS. It's completely sickening.

Sorry, I don't agree. There are plenty of NoVA kids at W&M and UVA (dozens headed to UVA from my DS's high school). Relative to other parts of the state, NoVA kids are already at an advantage--generally better schools, higher incomes, higher educational levels among adults, more opportunities. I'm in favor of spreading the wealth around, so to speak, and I am glad that opportunities are given to kids in other parts of the state.

I agree. My anecdotal experience from college was that the two girls in our suite from rural Virginia struggled with the college curriculum. One dropped out after the first semester, the other was on "probation" the second semester and didn't come back the next year. They just weren't prepared for the college level work. Kids from northern va have so many more advantages than rural students-its impossible to really compare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A. it's really hard to be in the top 10 % in this area. The competition is very very high.
B. we all know kids who had more than a 4.0, head cheerleader, class pres, lots of AP classes and STILL didn't get in to UVA. They reject A LOT of quality applicants. For a state university -- that is hard to take.

If the only state options were W&M and UVA, I would agree with you--very tough to take.

But they are not. There are several other good public options in VA. The "second tier" state universities in VA are better than the best public universities in several states. UVA and W&M are considered among the best public universities in the country. Yes, they are selective, that contributes to their excellence. But there are plenty of other schools for state residents. So this is really not that tough.

[Anonymous]

But they are not. There are several other good public options in VA. The "second tier" state universities in VA are better than the best public universities in several states. UVA and W&M are considered among the best public universities in the country. Yes, they are selective, that contributes to their excellence. But there are plenty of other schools for state residents. So this is really not that tough.

+++1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A) taxpayers are no longer paying for UVA - it has been self-funding for about a decade now.
B) It is almost impossible to get in from NOVA now. The TJ figures are an anomaly because of the self-selecting that has already occurred just to get into TJ. Langley and McLean (with 2000 students) might sent 12 to 15 each. The other NOVA positions have to be spread amongst all the other NOVA highschools (33 in FCPS alone) plus the privates AND the in-state students who are attending a private in Maryland or D.C.
C) Yes, you must be in the top 10% of your class to get in. Class of 2020 was 93.5% top 10% and class of 2021 is 94.6%. Remaining slots are out of state paying full freight, URMs, international students, first generation or other strong diversity types who bring something to the class.
D) Yes, smart parents much prefer UVAs %26K a year (now $30K a year for incoming class) to out-of=state tuition of $50K or private university or SLAC at $70-$72K. I know several students who turned down Ivies and U Cal schools because of the prohibitive cost. One didn't get into UVA so went to Berkeley but his parents are furious.
E) UVA seems to be also seeking out students with exceptional SAT and ACT scores. 682 in last year's incoming class had perfect SAT. The two students I know who got in from NOVA had perfect ACTs. The average ACT for the class of 2021 is 31-34. The average GPA is 4.26.
F) UVA seems to look for exceptionally well-rounded students and cherry picks the best off of each public and private. Check the stats on College Confidential and study the backgrounds of the "Chance Mes" who didn't get in and you will be astounded.
G) Eagle Scout seems to be well-regarded. I work inthe field and heard that Eagle Scout is an auto. in for U of Cal schools (UCLA Berkeley). That has been true in my experience The four young men I know who went to UVA in the class of 2020 were all Eagle Scouts but also had GPAs over 4.0 and perfect scores.
H) Although no one will tell you this up front, top scores on the SAT II subjectmatter tests will help your application immensely. Many schools like UVA and princeton will say "not required but recommended" but they say that because testing is expensive and they want first generation, URMS and the poor to apply. The ivies have a special program for this . . . to help the inner city and poor kids apply. That is a huge plus on your appliction if the FAFSA will support your claimed financial situation.
I) The college world has REALLY changed since we all went. It's no small feat now to get into many of the schools we attended. Study the stats on College Confidential to get atrue handle of the situation before you apply and check with Naviance. Your VA high school will not help you inthe application process if you don't have the minimum stats. THat's why the acceptance rates that people claim show that UVA, W&M and some of theother VA schools are easy to get into is not accurate. You can't compare the application class of UVA to other privates across the nation. The public high school counselors will laugh atyou if you ask them to help get your B student into UVA and W&M and will steer you to another Virginia school. They will not work to get good letters of recommendation. They will not signal to UVA or W&M your child's rank.
I) Re rank. Now you will sqwak and say that Langley doesn't rank. But it does. Those 60 kids or more who make valedictorian (GPA over 4.0) are the only ones they will help get into UVA or W&M. Also, if you compete for the Jefferson Scholarship, the nominating school must rank the nominated student. Even if the school doens't rank, the principal must indicate a rank on the application form which i have filled out.
J) I have no answer. Many counties in VA send no student or one to UVA. FCPS sends about 600, but when you see those 600 spread out across all the public and private schools plus VA boarding school and Maryland private and DC private but VA residents, you see just how difficult it is to get in by sheer population numbers. One Congressman introduced a bill into the VA assembly which would have allotted 100 more seats to NOVA but I don't think it passed. Those 100 would have had a negligble impact, anyhow, on say Langley of Mclean. UVA does its best to make it fair but it also wants the top flight VA students and OOS and international students.
G) Meanwhile, as UVA cuts down on the no of VA seats, the U of Cal system isgoing the other direction to limit the no of OOS seats in upcoming classes to only 20% - this is in response to angry californians who are paying into a system that their students can't get into. But my professional guess is that 20% will go to top flight international students. The Chinese, in particular, have an irrational fix on UCLA and Berkeley because of proximity to mainland China.

I apologize for typos -working on small phone while on vacation Hope that is of some help.

There's so much misinformation in this post I almost don't know where to begin. For starters, it isn't impossible to get into UVA from NoVA. My kid goes to Yorktown and the admission rate is a consistent 33%. Over the past 3 years, from a school of ~1800 students, 401 applied, 134 accepted, and 76 enrolled. If you are in the top 10% of the class, you are in decent shape. Not impossible. It's not Stanford.

682 students with perfect SAT scores in last year's class had perfect SAT scores? Perfect 2400? That's total garbage.

Maybe you need to have a sit-down with the UVA President Teresa sullivan and the Dean of Admissions to get your facts straight. I sat I thru President's Sullivans convocation last year (DC is in class of 2020) and heard the stats. 600+ accepted with perfect SATs, 265 accepted. 93.4% top 10 percent of class. all 50 states and 80 countries. Here are the stats as known now for incoming class of 2021. https://admissionsintel.com/uva-admits-9957-for-class-of-2021. Note average ACT of 31-34. Note SAT scores. Note Perfect SAT scores. I am told this class is 94.6% top ten percent of class. DCs stats were no 1 in class, 4.23 GPA (average of incoming class will be a 4.26), ACT with writing combined first take 34 and perfect 36 on retry. His friends who also got in had similar records and perfect SATT II subject matter test scores in Math I, II and chemistry. By the way, the Virginia acceptance rate is now only 29.1%and nos of applications are up. People who cite to the acceptance rate as a indicator that it is easy to get in to UVA and to W&M do not understand that you cannot compare selection rates of a top state flagship to a top private, say, Duke at 7%. Those that apply to UVA and W&M self-select or their public high schools do it for them. For example, the TJ students by virtue of attending TJ have have already gone through the toughest selection process in most of the U.S. Then the public high school will support the candidacies to UVA and W&M of only their top students because their reputation is on the line. IT's the high school college counselor who controls the gateway. She or he is not going to support a B+ candidate when there are 300 others in the class who have better records. She or he won't push the application, pull together the letters of recommendation (or read them to make sure they are good and fit), help w/ essays and talk to the university (which they do ) and indicate "these are our top ten - they are also applying to HYP; these are our top 20; these are our top 30 . . out of 2000". UVA can take only a few from each public school. or a dozen in the case of a school of 2400. You have a distinct advantage if you are applying from anywhere outside of Fairfax County or the TJ area - but not as great as many say. Some counties send zero or one student. OP asked for help in making assessments about where to apply. To do a good job of that she needs to understsand the statistics and the game that is played. If they in a FCPS they need a 4.0+ in order to get the blessing of the college counselor. That's just the way it is. DCs stats were good enough to get him into Ivies and the top tech schools in the USA with 6.0% acceptance rates that year but we knew how tough the UVA process was. He got in and turned down some $72K a year elites but at then $26K a year for in-state (now jumping to $30K) you can't beat UVA for undergrad especially if you child thimks they want to go to grad school and/or you have otherr children in college or coming up the pipeline. So lets help OP make reasonable choices instead of calling names.

Re: perfect SAT, it was 682 accepted, not incoming class as you stated previously?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In recent years, McLean has routinely sent 30-35 kids to UVA every year, and more were admitted and ended up at other schools. I don't have access to the Naviance data any longer, but the assertion that it might only send 12-15 kids per year is flat-out wrong.


Not in my DCs class at Langley. 30-35 may have been accepted out of 2000+ but only a dozen actually went. She was not one of the lucky few to get any support to apply. The college counselor "directed" her to other more "suitable" schools. B+/A- average.

Where was your child directed?

Some very bad an expensive choices like High Point, Gettysburg, Dickensen, Drexel, Swarthmore. She went to GMU Point of story: hire a professional Do not re ly n FCPS public high school counselor. They are not your friend unless your kid is 4.0++.

Swarthmore is not bad at all. And I'd take Drexel or Dickinson over GMU.

[Anonymous]

Swarthmore is not bad at all. And I'd take Drexel or Dickinson over GMU.

OP pointed out that these are expensive choices. GMU is a good school.

[Anonymous]

NoVA is transforming Virginia from a southern to a northern state wrt education. Much of the rest of the state is falling behind.