NOVA Stats for spring '17 UVA, W & M & Tech acceptances (or not)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

I'd take a serious look at Robinson because that's impressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

That's literally not true. What an IB diploma shows is strength across disciplines. You'd have to have a kid basically do the AP equivalent, which 80 percent don't, to make it comparable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

Acceptance rates for IB diploma candidates...impressive:
http://web.wis.edu.hk/public_html/IB_University_Acceptance_Rates.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

That's literally not true. What an IB diploma shows is strength across disciplines. You'd have to have a kid basically do the AP equivalent, which 80 percent don't, to make it comparable.

You don't even know if you're getting an IB diploma until after you've applied to schools, been admitted, and graduated from high school. And you are obviously making up the statistic that 80% of AP students don't take the "AP equivalent" to try and make schools with only 20% IB diploma candidates look successful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

Acceptance rates for IB diploma candidates...impressive:
http://web.wis.edu.hk/public_html/IB_University_Acceptance_Rates.pdf

Why are you posting information from the web site of a Hong Kong school here without any context as to the data?

[Anonymous]

more
http://www.ibo.org/contentassets/12ca22e438df4a65b4c92e42b70b10ea/globaldpdestinationsurveyus.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

That's literally not true. What an IB diploma shows is strength across disciplines. You'd have to have a kid basically do the AP equivalent, which 80 percent don't, to make it comparable.

You don't even know if you're getting an IB diploma until after you've applied to schools, been admitted, and graduated from high school. And you are obviously making up the statistic that 80% of AP students don't take the "AP equivalent" to try and make schools with only 20% IB diploma candidates look successful.

That is yet another advantage of IB. The colleges only know who the candidates are, as opposed to the actual recipients. Since the points aren't tallied and diplomas aren't awarded until July, if you bomb an exam or fall a few points short of completing the diploma, it's irrelevant. Your college acceptance is already secure. And colleges just don't rescind over things that trivial. The GPA would be largely unaffected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:06:54 - I'm familiar with two IB schools and see no evidence that supports your assertion that the program "sucks oxygen away from other students". I've never heard this concern from the school administrators or non-IB parents.

Can you provide some further support this claim?

Do you have any data or source that shows what colleges IB Diploma students apply/accept/attend? My understanding from seeing three classes of IB Diploma candidates matriculate is that these students do very well - at UVA, W&M, HYPS, SLACs and the military academies. My sense from working with these kids and their parents is that they are very keen on the program and very pleased with the outcomes.

Your ongoing diatribe against IB is irrational without specific information. You could just say that "I just hate IB" and we'll discount everything you say as immoderate opinion (which is fine although worthless in progressing the understanding of other DCUM participants) unless you start participating and providing real information and/or interesting perspective - your choice.

I am neither poster from above. However, it does not take much to see that in the poorer IB schools that IB could suck out oxygen. For one thing, and I do not have the data -and I suspect it would be quite difficult to get it--common sense tells me that because the IB program has requirements that are non-negotiable, that many of the IB offerings must necessarily be overstaffed. In other words, it would appear that many of the IB classes are quite small. This means that the gen ed classes are necessarily overenrolled and that the offerings in gen ed may be more limited. Staffing is done by school enrollment--and that could unbalance the offerings between IB and gen ed.

I have kids at a lower performing IB school ( but not the lowest 2 or 3). I was actually hoping that what you write would be partially true, that the class size would winnow down to small personal learning environments. Not the case. I'm sure plenty of kids won't wind up with the diploma, but those classes are full. I was surprised at the number in physics and chemistry and SL math ( which starts calculus junior year and is somewhat integrated by design with physics.)

[Anonymous]

That is yet another advantage of IB. The colleges only know who the candidates are, as opposed to the actual recipients. Since the points aren't tallied and diplomas aren't awarded until July, if you bomb an exam or fall a few points short of completing the diploma, it's irrelevant. Your college acceptance is already secure. And colleges just don't rescind over things that trivial. The GPA would be largely unaffected.

Same with AP classes in your Senior year. I don't see how that is an advantage for IB.
This is a matter of value for resources.

[Anonymous]

I have kids at a lower performing IB school ( but not the lowest 2 or 3). I was actually hoping that what you write would be partially true, that the class size would winnow down to small personal learning environments. Not the case. I'm sure plenty of kids won't wind up with the diploma, but those classes are full. I was surprised at the number in physics and chemistry and SL math ( which starts calculus junior year and is somewhat integrated by design with physics.)

Unless you can provide comparison with non-IB classes, this does not mean much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

And what would you expect with FARMS rates this high?!?

Annandale 1,253 58.33%
Lee 1,008 56.85%
Mount Vernon 1,066 54.39%

[Anonymous]

And what would you expect with FARMS rates this high?!?

Annandale 1,253 58.33%
Lee 1,008 56.85%
Mount Vernon 1,066 54.39%

I would expect a program which is more flexible for all students and does not drain resources as IB does. Like AP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

Sigh. Once again, these numbers aren't comparable to AP. You only have to take 3 AP classes to potentially be an AP scholar. Sure, according to this only 2.1% of Mount Vernon students complete the IB program. What share of students at a similar SES but AP school take 11 AP classes--that's what's roughly comparable to an IB diploma. Conversely, you could compare the share of students who take any IB class at Mount Vernon with the share of students who take any AP class at other high schools. That too would be a more apples-to-apples comparison, especially if comparing two similar SES schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

Sigh. Once again, these numbers aren't comparable to AP. You only have to take 3 AP classes to potentially be an AP scholar. Sure, according to this only 2.1% of Mount Vernon students complete the IB program. What share of students at a similar SES but AP school take 11 AP classes--that's what's roughly comparable to an IB diploma. Conversely, you could compare the share of students who take any IB class at Mount Vernon with the share of students who take any AP class at other high schools. That too would be a more apples-to-apples comparison, especially if comparing two similar SES schools.

And that AP student would need to that those AP classes across the curriculum -- not just focus on the STEM or non-STEM options (which lots do).

The strength of the IB diploma program is its breadth. Some people don't like that and feel like it hurts kids who have strengths or interests in one area -- which is why AP exists. They serve two different groups of advanced learners.