NOVA Stats for spring '17 UVA, W & M & Tech acceptances (or not)

[Anonymous]

And that AP student would need to that those AP classes across the curriculum -- not just focus on the STEM or non-STEM options (which lots do).

The strength of the IB diploma program is its breadth. Some people don't like that and feel like it hurts kids who have strengths or interests in one area -- which is why AP exists. They serve two different groups of advanced learners.

Don't think that is "why AP exists". AP exists to give college level classes to high school students. Period. It does not exist as an alternative to IB.

If a child wants something comparable to IB, they are welcome to take classes across the spectrum--I have a child that did so. Plenty of kids in AP schools do not limit themselves to STEM. Where do you get that idea? However, AP offers so much more flexibility than IB.

Once again--value for resources. Which serves the students better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

That's literally not true. What an IB diploma shows is strength across disciplines. You'd have to have a kid basically do the AP equivalent, which 80 percent don't, to make it comparable.

You don't even know if you're getting an IB diploma until after you've applied to schools, been admitted, and graduated from high school. And you are obviously making up the statistic that 80% of AP students don't take the "AP equivalent" to try and make schools with only 20% IB diploma candidates look successful.

That is yet another advantage of IB. The colleges only know who the candidates are, as opposed to the actual recipients. Since the points aren't tallied and diplomas aren't awarded until July, if you bomb an exam or fall a few points short of completing the diploma, it's irrelevant. Your college acceptance is already secure. And colleges just don't rescind over things that trivial. The GPA would be largely unaffected.

Classic example of trying to put lipstick on a pig. Meanwhile, the AP kids already have completed AP courses, received their grades and, in many instances, received AP test results they can share with colleges and universities.

[Anonymous]

That is yet another advantage of IB. The colleges only know who the candidates are, as opposed to the actual recipients. Since the points aren't tallied and diplomas aren't awarded until July, if you bomb an exam or fall a few points short of completing the diploma, it's irrelevant. Your college acceptance is already secure. And colleges just don't rescind over things that trivial. The GPA would be largely unaffected.


Classic example of trying to put lipstick on a pig. Meanwhile, the AP kids already have completed AP courses, received their grades and, in many instances, received AP test results they can share with colleges and universities.

So, was PP implying that IB helps the weaker students cover up?

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I hope FCPS pulls AP out of ALL of their schools and replaces it with IB just so the PP could have a coronary

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I hope FCPS pulls AP out of ALL of their schools and replaces it with IB just so the PP could have a coronary

First, there are at least two people responding to your comments.

Second, please read again what you wrote:

That is yet another advantage of IB. The colleges only know who the candidates are, as opposed to the actual recipients. Since the points aren't tallied and diplomas aren't awarded until July, if you bomb an exam or fall a few points short of completing the diploma, it's irrelevant. Your college acceptance is already secure. And colleges just don't rescind over things that trivial. The GPA would be largely unaffected.

This is really not a very good defense of IB. No one here has said get rid of it in all schools--but it is clearly not delivering in some of the schools. The students would be better served by AP. The taxpayers would also be better served. Don't you understand that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

Sigh. Once again, these numbers aren't comparable to AP. You only have to take 3 AP classes to potentially be an AP scholar. Sure, according to this only 2.1% of Mount Vernon students complete the IB program. What share of students at a similar SES but AP school take 11 AP classes--that's what's roughly comparable to an IB diploma. Conversely, you could compare the share of students who take any IB class at Mount Vernon with the share of students who take any AP class at other high schools. That too would be a more apples-to-apples comparison, especially if comparing two similar SES schools.

This is not remotely true. First off, no one is saying simply being an AP scholar with 3 courses is equivalent to the IB diploma; the awards requiring 4 or 5 AP classes would be better comparison. But an IB diploma is in no way equivalent to 11 AP classes. To make up an example, you can get an IB diploma by taking IB English HL (AP Language and AP Literature), IB History SL (one AP social studies course). IB Biology HL (AP Biology), IB Math Studies SL (does not include calculus, equivalent in content to a precalculus class and not a college-level math class), IB French ab initio SL (after 3 years of study, so not at the level of an AP course), and IB Psychology HL (AP Psychology). This is equivalent to 5 AP courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I hope FCPS pulls AP out of ALL of their schools and replaces it with IB just so the PP could have a coronary

Aren't you sweet?

Anyway, that won't happen. FCPS's period of infatuation with IB at the high school level lasted from 1994 to 2001. It hasn't converted an AP high school to IB since then. Several new high schools have been built, such as Westfield and South County, and they are both AP.

If FCPS wants to save money, it will cut back on IB. LCPS doesn't have any IB schools, and it does fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

Sigh. Once again, these numbers aren't comparable to AP. You only have to take 3 AP classes to potentially be an AP scholar. Sure, according to this only 2.1% of Mount Vernon students complete the IB program. What share of students at a similar SES but AP school take 11 AP classes--that's what's roughly comparable to an IB diploma. Conversely, you could compare the share of students who take any IB class at Mount Vernon with the share of students who take any AP class at other high schools. That too would be a more apples-to-apples comparison, especially if comparing two similar SES schools.

This is not remotely true. First off, no one is saying simply being an AP scholar with 3 courses is equivalent to the IB diploma; the awards requiring 4 or 5 AP classes would be better comparison. But an IB diploma is in no way equivalent to 11 AP classes. To make up an example, you can get an IB diploma by taking IB English HL (AP Language and AP Literature), IB History SL (one AP social studies course). IB Biology HL (AP Biology), IB Math Studies SL (does not include calculus, equivalent in content to a precalculus class and not a college-level math class), IB French ab initio SL (after 3 years of study, so not at the level of an AP course), and IB Psychology HL (AP Psychology). This is equivalent to 5 AP courses.

You are way off. In your example, you would need:

IB English HL: AP Lit and AP Lang
IB History SL: AP History
IB Bio HL (2 years after honors Bio, so AP Bio and Post AP Bio)
IB Math SL:I year of post pre-Calc math (part AP Calc AB part AP stats). Math Studies not offered at most HSs
IB psych HL (2 years, so AP Psych plus Post AP psych) BUT-- Most FCPS HSs do not offer AP psych HL. You need a different HL class. Most kids do Math HL, which is Calc BC.
IB French: equivalent of AP French. You need a minimum of 4 years of language for all language SL except Latin. 5 years recommended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that most of the IB schools would be better served with AP. It certainly would be cheaper.

All of this angst for just over a thousand students pupil placing to other schools -- 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

If we are going to look at cheaper options -- why does FCPS have so many foreign (oh -- I mean WORLD) language offerings? Let's shorten the list to Spanish, French, and Latin. Save lots of money.

Let's not. Our HS offers Russian - a language coveted by many employers these days - and is a highly respected and well-known program. Just because *you* aren't interested in Russian (or other languages) doesn't mean that many others aren't.

Well, just because YOU are not interested in IB doesn't mean that many others aren't.

False equivalency. IB sucks the oxygen out of the air at IB schools because nothing and no one else matters as much as the IB diploma kids. Offering a foreign language does not.

And for no great reason, either. If an IB diploma kid has mediocre SAT/ACT scores, he/she is still going to get turned down by UVA and W&M.

I hate to tell you, but an IB diploma student with a mediocre SAT/ACT still has a leg up over a kid with a handful of AP classes and a mediocre SAT/ACT, even more so at Virginia colleges than elsewhere.

Probably an advantage over a students who's only taken 1-3 AP courses, but beyond that it's a wash.

That's literally not true. What an IB diploma shows is strength across disciplines. You'd have to have a kid basically do the AP equivalent, which 80 percent don't, to make it comparable.

You don't even know if you're getting an IB diploma until after you've applied to schools, been admitted, and graduated from high school. And you are obviously making up the statistic that 80% of AP students don't take the "AP equivalent" to try and make schools with only 20% IB diploma candidates look successful.

That is yet another advantage of IB. The colleges only know who the candidates are, as opposed to the actual recipients. Since the points aren't tallied and diplomas aren't awarded until July, if you bomb an exam or fall a few points short of completing the diploma, it's irrelevant. Your college acceptance is already secure. And colleges just don't rescind over things that trivial. The GPA would be largely unaffected.

Classic example of trying to put lipstick on a pig. Meanwhile, the AP kids already have completed AP courses, received their grades and, in many instances, received AP test results they can share with colleges and universities.

What? Kids who have taken IB classes have grades as well, and test scores from classes they complete prior to senior year...just like AP students.

[Anonymous]

You are way off. In your example, you would need:

IB English HL: AP Lit and AP Lang
IB History SL: AP History
IB Bio HL (2 years after honors Bio, so AP Bio and Post AP Bio)
IB Math SL:I year of post pre-Calc math (part AP Calc AB part AP stats). Math Studies not offered at most HSs
IB psych HL (2 years, so AP Psych plus Post AP psych) BUT-- Most FCPS HSs do not offer AP psych HL. You need a different HL class. Most kids do Math HL, which is Calc BC.
IB French: equivalent of AP French. You need a minimum of 4 years of language for all language SL except Latin. 5 years recommended.

And, many AP kids I know take:
AP Lit and Language
AP History-one at a minimum-most take US -some also take European
AP Science of some type--might be something besides Bio, might be physics or chemistry I think the Biology AP is two classes.--my DD took Physics.
AP Calculus (some take the higher level AP which is BC) some also take higher level than that
AP Psych or some other AP class. You are correct about not having higher level Psych, but there are other classes that are offered: AP Art History, for example.
AP US Government (some take AP comparative government which is two AP tests) What kind of government do IB kids take?
AP Foreign Language

I don't think you realize just how much is available in AP classes. DD started college as an academic sophomore with the class listed above.

Far more flexibility is available in AP. There is also Economics, Statistics, and more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here you go:

SY2015-2016
IB Diploma Candidates
IB Diplomas Awarded
Percent of IB Candidates Awarded IB Diploma
Total Graduates
Percent of Graduates Awarded IB Diploma Annandale High 47 29 61.7% 534 5.4%
Edison High 52 43 82.7% 425 10.1%
Lee High 21 21 100.0% 401 5.2%
Marshall High 82 79 96.3% 422 18.7%
Mount Vernon High 17 9 52.9% 432 2.1%
Robinson High 157 131 83.4% 650 20.2%
South Lakes High 84 73 86.9% 522 14.0%
Stuart High 71 40 56.3% 388 10.3%
Total 531 425 80.0% 3,774 11.3%

This is from the link a few pages back. Pretty dreary results.
Take out Robinson and Marshall and the results are pretty bleak--especially considering the resources.

Sigh. Once again, these numbers aren't comparable to AP. You only have to take 3 AP classes to potentially be an AP scholar. Sure, according to this only 2.1% of Mount Vernon students complete the IB program. What share of students at a similar SES but AP school take 11 AP classes--that's what's roughly comparable to an IB diploma. Conversely, you could compare the share of students who take any IB class at Mount Vernon with the share of students who take any AP class at other high schools. That too would be a more apples-to-apples comparison, especially if comparing two similar SES schools.

This is not remotely true. First off, no one is saying simply being an AP scholar with 3 courses is equivalent to the IB diploma; the awards requiring 4 or 5 AP classes would be better comparison. But an IB diploma is in no way equivalent to 11 AP classes. To make up an example, you can get an IB diploma by taking IB English HL (AP Language and AP Literature), IB History SL (one AP social studies course). IB Biology HL (AP Biology), IB Math Studies SL (does not include calculus, equivalent in content to a precalculus class and not a college-level math class), IB French ab initio SL (after 3 years of study, so not at the level of an AP course), and IB Psychology HL (AP Psychology). This is equivalent to 5 AP courses.

You are way off. In your example, you would need:

IB English HL: AP Lit and AP Lang
IB History SL: AP History
IB Bio HL (2 years after honors Bio, so AP Bio and Post AP Bio)
IB Math SL:I year of post pre-Calc math (part AP Calc AB part AP stats). Math Studies not offered at most HSs
IB psych HL (2 years, so AP Psych plus Post AP psych) BUT-- Most FCPS HSs do not offer AP psych HL. You need a different HL class. Most kids do Math HL, which is Calc BC.
IB French: equivalent of AP French. You need a minimum of 4 years of language for all language SL except Latin. 5 years recommended.

Hmm. Marshall, Robinson and South Lakes all offer IB Math Studies. Are you the same poster who posted college admissions data from a private IB school in Hong Kong?

The quality controls around your information appear to be somewhat deficient, to put it mildly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are way off. In your example, you would need:

IB English HL: AP Lit and AP Lang
IB History SL: AP History
IB Bio HL (2 years after honors Bio, so AP Bio and Post AP Bio)
IB Math SL:I year of post pre-Calc math (part AP Calc AB part AP stats). Math Studies not offered at most HSs
IB psych HL (2 years, so AP Psych plus Post AP psych) BUT-- Most FCPS HSs do not offer AP psych HL. You need a different HL class. Most kids do Math HL, which is Calc BC.
IB French: equivalent of AP French. You need a minimum of 4 years of language for all language SL except Latin. 5 years recommended.

And, many AP kids I know take:
AP Lit and Language
AP History-one at a minimum-most take US -some also take European
AP Science of some type--might be something besides Bio, might be physics or chemistry I think the Biology AP is two classes.--my DD took Physics.
AP Calculus (some take the higher level AP which is BC) some also take higher level than that
AP Psych or some other AP class. You are correct about not having higher level Psych, but there are other classes that are offered: AP Art History, for example.
AP US Government (some take AP comparative government which is two AP tests) What kind of government do IB kids take?
AP Foreign Language

I don't think you realize just how much is available in AP classes. DD started college as an academic sophomore with the class listed above.

Far more flexibility is available in AP. There is also Economics, Statistics, and more.

Very true. It helps explain why FCPS has stopped trying to inflict IB on additional high schools and the AP schools aren't asking for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You are way off. In your example, you would need:

IB English HL: AP Lit and AP Lang
IB History SL: AP History
IB Bio HL (2 years after honors Bio, so AP Bio and Post AP Bio)
IB Math SL:I year of post pre-Calc math (part AP Calc AB part AP stats). Math Studies not offered at most HSs
IB psych HL (2 years, so AP Psych plus Post AP psych) BUT-- Most FCPS HSs do not offer AP psych HL. You need a different HL class. Most kids do Math HL, which is Calc BC.
IB French: equivalent of AP French. You need a minimum of 4 years of language for all language SL except Latin. 5 years recommended.

And, many AP kids I know take:
AP Lit and Language
AP History-one at a minimum-most take US -some also take European
AP Science of some type--might be something besides Bio, might be physics or chemistry I think the Biology AP is two classes.--my DD took Physics.
AP Calculus (some take the higher level AP which is BC) some also take higher level than that
AP Psych or some other AP class. You are correct about not having higher level Psych, but there are other classes that are offered: AP Art History, for example.
AP US Government (some take AP comparative government which is two AP tests) What kind of government do IB kids take?
AP Foreign Language

I don't think you realize just how much is available in AP classes. DD started college as an academic sophomore with the class listed above.

Far more flexibility is available in AP. There is also Economics, Statistics, and more.

Very true. It helps explain why FCPS has stopped trying to inflict IB on additional high schools and the AP schools aren't asking for it.

IB offers the same flexibility. My ds has taken IB computer science, IB business, IB economics, and IB social anthropology. And the pp who stated that the Latin requirements are different is incorrect. It is necessary to start a language in 8th and stick with it to take IB language SL or HL. And is anyone considering that most of these are two year courses? Two years of HL Bio (for example) is definitely harder than one of AP bio.

[Anonymous]

IB offers the same flexibility. My ds has taken IB computer science, IB business, IB economics, and IB social anthropology. And the pp who stated that the Latin requirements are different is incorrect. It is necessary to start a language in 8th and stick with it to take IB language SL or HL. And is anyone considering that most of these are two year courses? Two years of HL Bio (for example) is definitely harder than one of AP bio.

But, AP gives the opportunity for AP Bio, AP, Physics, AP Environmental Science, AP Chemistry, etc. You are not confined to two years of Bio for science.

And, what makes you think that most AP Foreign Language are not in their fifth year? Some may combine it-but not all.

It does appear that AP offers more flexibility in Science and Math. It would seem that English and Social Sciences may be similar.


Once more: value for the expense goes to AP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

IB offers the same flexibility. My ds has taken IB computer science, IB business, IB economics, and IB social anthropology. And the pp who stated that the Latin requirements are different is incorrect. It is necessary to start a language in 8th and stick with it to take IB language SL or HL. And is anyone considering that most of these are two year courses? Two years of HL Bio (for example) is definitely harder than one of AP bio.

But, AP gives the opportunity for AP Bio, AP, Physics, AP Environmental Science, AP Chemistry, etc. You are not confined to two years of Bio for science.

And, what makes you think that most AP Foreign Language are not in their fifth year? Some may combine it-but not all.

It does appear that AP offers more flexibility in Science and Math. It would seem that English and Social Sciences may be similar.


Once more: value for the expense goes to AP

The pp did not dispute that AP requires 5 years of language. He/she just stated that IB does. Another pp mentioned something about "except for Latin." My dd just completed her Junior year at Marshall and she has thus far taken one year each of IB chemistry, IB physics, and IB bio. She has also taken 2 years of IB math, IB history of the Americas, IB language and literature, IB Spanish, etc. Science is her first love, and she has had no trouble fitting in all the science she wants with the diploma program. I feel that this thread has a lot of misinformation and things people have heard about IB. It is not an inflexible program, and there are plenty of options. I do not feel that it is better or worse than an AP program, but it is certainly a valid and equal alternative.