White working class acting against their own interests?

[Anonymous]

Kind of crappy OP doesn't come back to address any of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trump and his supporters are correctly identifying the Clintons and Obama (and GWB) as being worse than useless when it comes to fighting for good-paying jobs for blue-collar workers, since they cravenly served Wall Street, big importers, and the forces of globalization. So Trump comes along and actually makes this connection and the OP has the sheer gall to try to spin this story that Hillary is a better choice? What was Hillary saying about the Asia trade deal when she was SOS? Here's a secret: she was pushing for it hard even though it was obviously anti-blue-collar.

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should just ask.........

“Wouldn’t you want the government to take better care of you so you don’t have to worry about taking care of yourself?"

+1. Indeed. Wouldn't you want to not be a republican so you're not putting in power the wealthy business owners who profit from your apparent ignorance and blind allegiance? Wouldn't you want to be a socialist? I'm not from the US and I have to give the GOP a slow clap every time I think of what they've pulled off in the last 35 years.

Donald Trump is a wealthy business owner who has created tens of thousands of jobs. When he profits, so do the people who work for him. In a capitalist society, you can't hate companies but want jobs.

Blue collar workers for the most part do not want handouts, they want jobs. That is why they buy into Trump's message. They do not view themselves as poor, but rather displaced due to bad trade deals and unfair global competition. Many, believe it or not, have the old fashion view that government handouts are charity and it embarrasses them. They want good jobs. Hillary has never created one, other than for attorneys representing her.

You know that Trump was indicted for hiring illegal immigrant workers, right?
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/13/nyregion/trump-says-he-didn-t-know-he-employed-illegal-aliens.html

Is that you little Marco? Never convicted. Never fined. They were hired by the general contractor, not Trump. If that argument does not work in the primary, then it will not work now. Trump is successful and employs thousands, that is why he has the attention of those who feel they have been left behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should just ask.........

“Wouldn’t you want the government to take better care of you so you don’t have to worry about taking care of yourself?"

+1. Indeed. Wouldn't you want to not be a republican so you're not putting in power the wealthy business owners who profit from your apparent ignorance and blind allegiance? Wouldn't you want to be a socialist? I'm not from the US and I have to give the GOP a slow clap every time I think of what they've pulled off in the last 35 years.

Donald Trump is a wealthy business owner who has created tens of thousands of jobs. When he profits, so do the people who work for him. In a capitalist society, you can't hate companies but want jobs.

Blue collar workers for the most part do not want handouts, they want jobs. That is why they buy into Trump's message. They do not view themselves as poor, but rather displaced due to bad trade deals and unfair global competition. Many, believe it or not, have the old fashion view that government handouts are charity and it embarrasses them. They want good jobs. Hillary has never created one, other than for attorneys representing her.

You know that Trump was indicted for hiring illegal immigrant workers, right?
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/13/nyregion/trump-says-he-didn-t-know-he-employed-illegal-aliens.html

Is that you little Marco? Never convicted. Never fined. They were hired by the general contractor, not Trump. If that argument does not work in the primary, then it will not work now. Trump is successful and employs thousands, that is why he has the attention of those who feel they have been left behind.

That points to a lack of oversight and accountability. If Trump becomes President and the executive branch agencies start engaging in all kinds of abuses I guess it'll just be "Oh, that was just Agency X, has nothing to do with Trump?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should just ask.........

“Wouldn’t you want the government to take better care of you so you don’t have to worry about taking care of yourself?"

+1. Indeed. Wouldn't you want to not be a republican so you're not putting in power the wealthy business owners who profit from your apparent ignorance and blind allegiance? Wouldn't you want to be a socialist? I'm not from the US and I have to give the GOP a slow clap every time I think of what they've pulled off in the last 35 years.

Donald Trump is a wealthy business owner who has created tens of thousands of jobs. When he profits, so do the people who work for him. In a capitalist society, you can't hate companies but want jobs.

Blue collar workers for the most part do not want handouts, they want jobs. That is why they buy into Trump's message. They do not view themselves as poor, but rather displaced due to bad trade deals and unfair global competition. Many, believe it or not, have the old fashion view that government handouts are charity and it embarrasses them. They want good jobs. Hillary has never created one, other than for attorneys representing her.

You know that Trump was indicted for hiring illegal immigrant workers, right?
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/13/nyregion/trump-says-he-didn-t-know-he-employed-illegal-aliens.html

Is that you little Marco? Never convicted. Never fined. They were hired by the general contractor, not Trump. If that argument does not work in the primary, then it will not work now. Trump is successful and employs thousands, that is why he has the attention of those who feel they have been left behind.

That points to a lack of oversight and accountability. If Trump becomes President and the executive branch agencies start engaging in all kinds of abuses I guess it'll just be "Oh, that was just Agency X, has nothing to do with Trump?"

A developer typically does not oversee its General Contractor's books. Do you blame GWB for 9-11? After all, it was agencies in his administration that failed to connect the dots. Do you blame Obama for the IRS singling out conservative groups? Do you even know what a CEO does?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

At least they had jobs then. Now there are none thanks to the government's help in drafting NAFTA, allowing illegals by the millions to take American jobs, raising corporate taxes that drove them offshore, etc. Don't need protections from your big bad employer if there is no job to go to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

At least they had jobs then. Now there are none thanks to the government's help in drafting NAFTA, allowing illegals by the millions to take American jobs, raising corporate taxes that drove them offshore, etc. Don't need protections from your big bad employer if there is no job to go to.

Whut?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know quite a few white working class people. They do see how the policies behind some of the Democratic agenda is designed to help. They just feel, from a practical perspective that they are getting screwed and that that particular demographic is being left out.

I'll just give one example and respond to what's written here by some of the posters.

I know a guy, mid-50s I don't know if he graduated high school or has a GED. No college. Born and bred in Northern Virginia. Started out as a kid making minimum wage scrambling around construction and the like. Became a heavy equipment operator and eventually owned his own small business. No help. Just hard work and opportunity. Through his own fault, he lost the business, divorced, etc. No problem. start again.

He started as an hourly employee at a grocery store. Through the store he got health insurance. (He had always known the value of insurance and had always had it and provided it to all his employees). Cost 12 bucks a week, pre-ACA. This came through for him with 2 major medical issues. Fine. He's grateful.

He got promoted. That promotion got him a 4 dollar an hour raise. And his insurance (employer/union) went from 48 to 75 dollars a month. Pre-ACA. OK. The policy was a bit better and he fully agreed that the higher paid union workers should help out the lower paid.

After the ACA, he is paying 400 a month for the same insurance. This is hard to stomach. Lower income, hourly worker and your monthly insurance premium gores up more than 4 times? As a result of a law that was intended to help him? Can you see why this might not be seen as a great victory?

Someone mentioned "racial resentment". I think that is shorthand for postulating that white working class are all racists. Sure its an issue. But it is throughout the entire white demographic pyramid. Is he?

He grew up working class. In a mixed race neighborhood. His son-in-law is a working class black man and his grandchildren are mixed race. I don't think it would be ok to call him racists.

He doesn't hate Muslims or immigrants or gays or transexuals He does not like terrorists. And while he has a great deal of compassion for the US born children of illegal immigrants, he doesn't get why the parents get a break. Surprise, a lot of white working class people have been "judicially involved" (that's currently the "proper" term, isn't it?). And what they see is the fact that they didn't get a break from the justice system, why should they.

Oh. And they see the potential for abuse too. They ask, what is to prevent people from coming specifically to give birth? And then trying to stay?

Its a good question. And while it has been discounted as a problem by those in favor of amnesty. It just doesn't happen that often. I am not sure that's accurate. The New York Times had a long article a couple years ago documenting this a a trend in China. My own personal experience living overseas? I saw dozens of younger people. Lawyers, bankers, doctors and other professionals who were British, Australian, from every European country who would time their pregnancies and annual leave in order to give birth while vacationing at Disney World. Of course, the idea for them wasn't necessarily to remain immediately. But it gave their children a future choice. And it opened options for them to move to the US, as I understand that employers have an easier time sponsoring a foreign professional if a family member is a US citizen. Like it or not, and as disliked as we may be, US citizenship is still coveted.

What about the rest? Why so angry about "civil rights"? It really isn't racism or homophobia as far as I can tell. It's more a feeling of being completely left out. They are hourly workers. They make 15, 20 , 25 dollars an hour. They see affirmative action and diversity initiatives. And no one focuses on them. Instead, they are called stupid. Redneck. Racist. The beneficiaries of white privilege (try explaining that to a white working class family).

All in all, they really don't want much more than to be able to work.

I don't know anyone in the white working class who is against birth control. Or having it provided for free. Most have single other relatives and see what a strain it can be. Oddly, working white people like to have sex for fun too. They do understand.

I don't know more than a handful of working white who are anti-abortion. For the same reasons they are not against birth control.

They are for states rights. But this is less a result of some "redneck" notion than it is experience. They come from neighborhoods where there is a lot of "under the table" community support. People help each other fix houses, cars, plumbing, childcare, etc. It is a true barter economy. It is unspoken that when I look after your kid today, your husband the plumber will stop by this weekend and help us install the hot water heater. Nothing is asked, no money exchanges. It just happens.

As a result, a lot of working class people don't trust a bunch of policy wonks in Washington preening themselves with their HYP degrees that they earned after attending Cranbrook or Exeter or Sidwell pronouncing what is good for the white working class. They hate the condescension "We know what's good for you; you are a stupid rube! My Masters in Public Policy from YALE let's me tell you that. Now sit down and do as you're told.

To me, it really isn't that the white working class are against what the Democratic social platform is. What they hate is feeling left out and and being condescended to . . .as do you and I. So at the end of the day, it is a total marketing failure by the Democrats. Stop telling them what to do. Stop talking down to them. Put as much focus on how they are being screwed as is put on the poor children of illegal immigrants. Put the focus on them. After all, there a ton more white working class voters than there are transgender voters, AA voters or immigrants. And that doesn't mean skew the program, it means change the tone of delivery. Know your audience and speak to them Stop speaking AT them.

You should be writing op eds for the NYTimes instead of the out-of-touch people who do.

+1 I don't support Trump but this is a balanced argument.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

At least they had jobs then. Now there are none thanks to the government's help in drafting NAFTA, allowing illegals by the millions to take American jobs, raising corporate taxes that drove them offshore, etc. Don't need protections from your big bad employer if there is no job to go to.

There are enough resources in this world for all of us to have comfortable lives and jobs. There really is no need for some people to live lives that are living hell.

[Anonymous]

History and Economics tell us that protectionism hurts everyone and free trade is good. Obama, Hillary and Paul Ryan are right on this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

Cool story, bruh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should just ask.........

“Wouldn’t you want the government to take better care of you so you don’t have to worry about taking care of yourself?"

+1. Indeed. Wouldn't you want to not be a republican so you're not putting in power the wealthy business owners who profit from your apparent ignorance and blind allegiance? Wouldn't you want to be a socialist? I'm not from the US and I have to give the GOP a slow clap every time I think of what they've pulled off in the last 35 years.

Donald Trump is a wealthy business owner who has created tens of thousands of jobs. When he profits, so do the people who work for him. In a capitalist society, you can't hate companies but want jobs.

Blue collar workers for the most part do not want handouts, they want jobs. That is why they buy into Trump's message. They do not view themselves as poor, but rather displaced due to bad trade deals and unfair global competition. Many, believe it or not, have the old fashion view that government handouts are charity and it embarrasses them. They want good jobs. Hillary has never created one, other than for attorneys representing her.

You know that Trump was indicted for hiring illegal immigrant workers, right?
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/13/nyregion/trump-says-he-didn-t-know-he-employed-illegal-aliens.html

Is that you little Marco? Never convicted. Never fined. They were hired by the general contractor, not Trump. If that argument does not work in the primary, then it will not work now. Trump is successful and employs thousands, that is why he has the attention of those who feel they have been left behind.

That points to a lack of oversight and accountability. If Trump becomes President and the executive branch agencies start engaging in all kinds of abuses I guess it'll just be "Oh, that was just Agency X, has nothing to do with Trump?"

A developer typically does not oversee its General Contractor's books. Do you blame GWB for 9-11? After all, it was agencies in his administration that failed to connect the dots. Do you blame Obama for the IRS singling out conservative groups? Do you even know what a CEO does?

A good developer doesn't pick shady, fly-by-night contractors. That makes Trump NOT a good developer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Explain this to me: If you are being left behind by globalization and not doing well financial, wouldn't you want an expansion of overtime pay? Wouldn't you want the Affordable Care Act in case you lose your job or don't have benefits at your job? Wouldn't you support the initiative to make college affordable so that your children will not experience what you did? Wouldn't you want the tax code to ask more of the rich so that you, the poor, can enjoy greater benefits? Why are the "poor, white working class" folks supporting politicians (like Trump) who publicly spouse policies that will not benefit you?

Typical arrogant, elitist socialist/liberal, thinking they know what's in the best interests of those perceived to be beneath them. Perhaps the best interests of the working class is to get government out of their lives.

Uh, yeah, so that they can go back to working 70 hours a week in the mines for slave wages, in unsafe conditions, paid in scrip that is only redeemable at the company store, and when they get killed, the company will just dump the body in front of the family's house, and a couple of days later they come and evict the wife and kids out onto the street. Not to mention the kids will be working in the mines at the age of 8 too. So we can go back to when the Cuyahoga river was so contaminated that it would routinely catch on fire. Or Love Canal. Or the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. If anyone in the working class thinks they need government out of their lives then all that says is that they have very little meaningful understanding of history.

Cool story, bruh.

*adding you to the list of people embarrasingly ignorant about history.

[Anonymous]

I think most middle class folk, with or without degrees, blue collar, white, and grey, all know we will never receive any freebies from any democrat program unless we have HHI at or below poverty. So, our best bet is on a guy who has a greater likelihood of improving job opportunities overall.