Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"

[Anonymous]

OP here. I've thought about taking him out, but after reading this thread, I'm afraid to risk being viewed as a precious snowflake, a whiner, a pathetic idiot, a NOW spokeswoman, or a feminist freak rather than someone who was trying to help him out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I've thought about taking him out, but after reading this thread, I'm afraid to risk being viewed as a precious snowflake, a whiner, a pathetic idiot, a NOW spokeswoman, or a feminist freak rather than someone who was trying to help him out.

Several people gave you useful scripts and recommendations and you haven't responded to any of them. Instead, you just had a bunch of posts removed wondering why you weren't responding to any of the helpful posts and are continuing to only respond to the negative ones. So I, again, question whether you're just trolling, even though it means my post will, again, be deleted by Jeff at your request.

[Anonymous]

I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So how to determine who's comfortableness trumps? He is uncomfortable interacting with women without using respectful phrase and the women are uncomfortable with him being respectful... who must be made uncomfortable in order to make the other party happy? Does the principle of equity apply? In other words, who is most capable of incurring the loss of comfort? That person should be the one to absorb to discomfort? Are the women saying that he must change because it is too much for them the bare? While most may not realize it, if that is what is really being concluded this is an anti-feminist position because it means that women require men to make them comfortable.

Doesn't the fact that everyone at the agency calls each other by their first name indicate which experience should trump?

Nope. That is forced assimilation and assimilation is wrong. Multiculturalism is good. You should accept his culture and phraseology in the workplace.

[Anonymous]

I'd make a joke it and respond "Yes, sir!" every time.

Or I'd just chuckle, and say "Hey Bob, I gotta tell you - we really are a first name only kind of agency. I know you've got a more formal background, but if you're gonna stick around here, first names are the way to go."

And then I'd correct him every time after that, ie -

*Knock, knock" "Hi, Ma'am, I had a -"
"Susie, Bob, it's Susie. My name is Susie."
"Okay, well yes Ma'am. I just had this -"
"No Bob, really it's Susie, just Susie, not Susie Ma'am"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

The difference is, you use both sir and ma'am. You don't call every man by their first name and every woman ma'am. All the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

The difference is, you use both sir and ma'am. You don't call every man by their first name and every woman ma'am. All the time.

Quoted PP here. actually, I don't count what I do. I may actually say ma'am more just based on the type of interaction I am having. For me, it is reflexive for me to say either when I am speaking to someone to whom I am trying to show deference or respect. Just saying, without knowing the context in which this veteran is saying it, you just don't know. I likened it to opening a door for a woman. It may just him being polite and showing respect/deference. I can't stand that he is being thrown under the bus for being respectful. Maybe it is just taking him longer to get to calling a woman by her first name. I have the same problem with people older than me. It just doesn't feel right the way I was raised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I've thought about taking him out, but after reading this thread, I'm afraid to risk being viewed as a precious snowflake, a whiner, a pathetic idiot, a NOW spokeswoman, or a feminist freak rather than someone who was trying to help him out.

Several people gave you useful scripts and recommendations and you haven't responded to any of them. Instead, you just had a bunch of posts removed wondering why you weren't responding to any of the helpful posts and are continuing to only respond to the negative ones. So I, again, question whether you're just trolling, even though it means my post will, again, be deleted by Jeff at your request.

NP here. *I* reported the thread to Jeff. I was appalled at a good 50% of the responses the OP received, a good portion of which consisted of "troll troll trolllllllllll" and some pretty offensive stuff. Who knows - maybe I'm not the only one who reported.

[Anonymous]

What if you said, you know, Bob, I'm wondering why you call all the women ma'am and all the men by their names? That's sort of odd, isn't it?

The key is you would have to say it super casually with complete no emotion in your voice/face at all.

Just puts it out there and puts him on the spot to reply.

[Anonymous]

Op again -- I haven't reported and posts. But that attitude is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, just some. I have been out of the military for 22 years, and I still sometimes slip into Sir/Ma'am. That respect is beaten in to you from before the moment you get off the bus at basic. I don't think he means anything by it, any more than opening a door for a woman would be meant as anything more than being polite. If it really bothers you, ask him about it. Ask him why he does it. Then maybe you can find a beef with his motive, but not on generalizations.

The difference is, you use both sir and ma'am. You don't call every man by their first name and every woman ma'am. All the time.

Quoted PP here. actually, I don't count what I do. I may actually say ma'am more just based on the type of interaction I am having. For me, it is reflexive for me to say either when I am speaking to someone to whom I am trying to show deference or respect. Just saying, without knowing the context in which this veteran is saying it, you just don't know. I likened it to opening a door for a woman. It may just him being polite and showing respect/deference. I can't stand that he is being thrown under the bus for being respectful. Maybe it is just taking him longer to get to calling a woman by her first name. I have the same problem with people older than me. It just doesn't feel right the way I was raised.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op again -- I haven't reported and posts. But that attitude is a prime example of what I'm talking about.

What attitude? You asked a question and received a ton of great recommendations for how to address this with him but you're ignoring them and claiming everyone is telling you to get over it! Most of the posters are supportive of your position but you won't acknowledge any of them and are instead insistent everyone is against you. People then calling you on that isn't "attitude" it's a legitimate questioning of what exactly you are hoping to get out of posting here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd make a joke it and respond "Yes, sir!" every time.

Or I'd just chuckle, and say "Hey Bob, I gotta tell you - we really are a first name only kind of agency. I know you've got a more formal background, but if you're gonna stick around here, first names are the way to go."

And then I'd correct him every time after that, ie -

*Knock, knock" "Hi, Ma'am, I had a -"
"Susie, Bob, it's Susie. My name is Susie."
"Okay, well yes Ma'am. I just had this -"
"No Bob, really it's Susie, just Susie, not Susie Ma'am"

This seems pretty reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. There seem to be a lot of people here who feel that I'm out to get this guy, that I'm going to somehow use this fact against him or file a complaint or trip him up, and then there are a number of people who feel that I'm oversensitive or pitiful or whatever.

I'm trying to help this guy.

I get that some of you think this is a character-plus for him, a show of respect that he calls women by an honorific. But it comes across very badly. It's jarring to be in a meeting and have someone say "Ma'am, I'd like to call your attention to -- " Our clients don't like it. We are a client service unit. It really doesn't matter that you think or people think this is polite. It doesn't work for us.

Yes, that would be very akward for clients. It makes it appear that your team doesn't know each other and will leave a weird impression. ,aube even some lack of trust as well. When it happens again, immediately after the meeting, directly tell him that and tell him why. Tell him if he can't remember your name or any other team member, just speak in general terms "can we review this item", etc

[Anonymous]

I worked as a civilian for the military health system for many years. I was generally referred to as "Ma'am" by almost everyone. I had many friends at work and when we were alone it was "Susie" and "Larla" but in front of anyone we referred to each other as COL Jones and Ms. Smith.