Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"

[Anonymous]

OP, I get where you're coming from. It's not that you're offended, but he's making himself stick out like an odd duck by insisting on behaving in a way that is not in sync with the workplace culture. I think someone who is either his manager or a close friend who feels comfortable being really frank with him is going to have to have this conversation with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman (NP). I would find that remembering all the mens' names and using them, but addressing all the women only as men, made me feel like the men are the real team here, and the women are kind of outside that. I can't know how it's intended, but that's the effect it would have on me.

OP you seem like a nice person.

I'd feel the same way as PP. I'd even go so far to say that if he said ma'am AND sir and it didn't fit with the culture it'd be understandable... but yes, it's totally offensive to basically point out in a work situation that all the women are woman as a group and not really people needing to be addressed by their individual names.

(I feel the same way about calling groups of women "ladies" in professional situations, but that's another story).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you rather he say woman, bitch, hey you . Maybe he can't remember names.

LOL! I think that's what the OP is aiming for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman (NP). I would find that remembering all the mens' names and using them, but addressing all the women only as men, made me feel like the men are the real team here, and the women are kind of outside that. I can't know how it's intended, but that's the effect it would have on me.

+1. It's not respectful in this context. It's dismissive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't people be addressed the way that they want to be addressed? If you are not offended by Ma'am great! But, this bothers the OP and she should get a say in how she is addressed. OP, have you brought this up to him? I would just say ( as others have) when he says Ma'am say I know you mean this as a sign of respect but, I would prefer if you call me by my name--Susan...thanks!


If he ignores than you can bring it up to your supervisor.

This sounds very like everyone being able to pick their own pronouns and then getting upset with people who can figure out what pronoun you want.

[Anonymous]

You all have to remember that military men are being taught right now to tread VERY, VERY lightly with regard to women and potential cries of sexual harassment. He probably feels that if he calls all the women Ma'am, he doesn't appear as though he's making any moves on any woman. This is especially true if he remembers Janie's name but not Rachel's. He has been taught that, if he uses Janie's first name but not Rachel's, that it could be misconstrued that he is hitting on Janie. He doesn't have to worry about that with the guys.

This behavior is very typical for a military guy who doesn't want to appear out of line. It may seem odd to you but he is doing it out of respect, training, and trying to appear fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And yes, we've all said "Call me Larla" multiple times. I'm not an idiot. C'mon.

I'm one of the early posters who said that I hate being called ma'am and would ask him to call me Larla. I feel that all of the pp's talking about 'respect' are completely off-base. It is NOT respectful to call someone other than they wish to be called once they have communicated that to you. OP, I think you've done your best. You've told him how to address you; other people have told him how to address them, plus he comes to work and observes what everyone else does. He is either terribly clueless or deliberately antagonistic. It would irritate me, but I would let it go. Natural consequences will occur and hopefully he will learn.

[Anonymous]

I think it is probably his military background that is more troubling to the OP than the use of the phrase. The phrase is simply an outward sign that reminds the OP that he has a military background. She probably doesn't know how to relate to him and the phrase reminds her that his background is different than hers and she doesn't understand it so she is lashing out at what she doesn't understand. Classic fear of those who are different than you. She should attend training on how to be more inclusive in a diverse working environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shouldn't people be addressed the way that they want to be addressed? If you are not offended by Ma'am great! But, this bothers the OP and she should get a say in how she is addressed. OP, have you brought this up to him? I would just say ( as others have) when he says Ma'am say I know you mean this as a sign of respect but, I would prefer if you call me by my name--Susan...thanks!


If he ignores than you can bring it up to your supervisor.

This sounds very like everyone being able to pick their own pronouns and then getting upset with people who can figure out what pronoun you want.

How on earth is asking to be called your actual name the same thing as wanting to be called a pronoun that is at odds with your physical appearance without telling anyone? You really think they are the same?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman (NP). I would find that remembering all the mens' names and using them, but addressing all the women only as men, made me feel like the men are the real team here, and the women are kind of outside that. I can't know how it's intended, but that's the effect it would have on me.

+1. It's not respectful in this context. It's dismissive.

+1

What is this, 1950? The guy needs to get with the times. Being polite is nice, but this is just stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You all have to remember that military men are being taught right now to tread VERY, VERY lightly with regard to women and potential cries of sexual harassment. He probably feels that if he calls all the women Ma'am, he doesn't appear as though he's making any moves on any woman. This is especially true if he remembers Janie's name but not Rachel's. He has been taught that, if he uses Janie's first name but not Rachel's, that it could be misconstrued that he is hitting on Janie. He doesn't have to worry about that with the guys.

This behavior is very typical for a military guy who doesn't want to appear out of line. It may seem odd to you but he is doing it out of respect, training, and trying to appear fair.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all have to remember that military men are being taught right now to tread VERY, VERY lightly with regard to women and potential cries of sexual harassment. He probably feels that if he calls all the women Ma'am, he doesn't appear as though he's making any moves on any woman. This is especially true if he remembers Janie's name but not Rachel's. He has been taught that, if he uses Janie's first name but not Rachel's, that it could be misconstrued that he is hitting on Janie. He doesn't have to worry about that with the guys.

This behavior is very typical for a military guy who doesn't want to appear out of line. It may seem odd to you but he is doing it out of respect, training, and trying to appear fair.

+1

It is also possible that the ONLY training he has had with regard to behavior in professional situations is from his military experience. This is because many military men at the enlisted level come from less affluent backgrounds. If he is new to a office and fresh out of the military he is going through a cultural change (probably shock) and he is falling back to what he was taught. You people really need to get out of your own skin and try to see the world from another persons perspective.

[Anonymous]

Hi, Op

Just an idea I had so not sure if it would work or not. Perhaps all the women in the office could get those stickers that say "Hello, my name is........and then write your name on it. Perhaps that might get him to use your names?

I agree it is frustrating and hope it is resolved in your favor soon!

[Anonymous]

I sometimes say yes ma'am to secretaries and such. Never really thought about it, just seems nice sometimes. Y'all crazy.

[Anonymous]

How old is he and how long was he in the service?

I used to be able to tell who was generally fresh out of basic because they'd always try to carry themselves about in a military manner. Standing at attention, calling everyone sir, ma'am, etc. But after a while people would loosen up a bit.

I don't know if it applies to other branches and females but generally only officers get called sir or ma'am. And if called an enlisted person sir or ma'am, the comeback would be, "Don't call me that, I work for a living..." (implying that officers didn't work like enlisted people do)

This was all a while back.

So you or someone else can respond back that way jokingly.

As others mentioned, it might be more due to his upbringing since he's only using it towards the females but I don't know how the military is after they tried to pay more attention to sexual harassment.

Part of it might just be giving him time to adjust to the culture of the organization. If it offends anyone or is an issue, maybe they can bring it up to his supervisor or HR and let them discuss it with him.