Ex-military at my agency calling every woman "Ma'am"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Career Director and get this all of the time from people leaving the military and starting college. Just let him know. Don't let it eat you up. I just say to the folks who call me mam..."I appreciate your manners" and I want to let you know that in order to transition to this new world. "you have to when in Rome...act like the Romans do" and let him know that you are a first name firm and "mam" is for the military and the south. Just keep it simple and nice.

Please don't say it like that. Someone military will find that very offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a military/law enforcement way - very hard to stop something so engrained.

And yet .... in some circumstances, we need to learn a new way to be respectful.

Back in the day, people tried to defend employers who called their secretaries "Honey" in much the same way. He doesn't mean anything by it, he's southern, it's ingrained in the way he talks, he truly, truly did not mean any disrespect, it is just a really hard habit to break. Sincerely. It can also be an expensive habit to break. If you can't stop saying Ma'am, don't stop saying Sir either. You just can't be selective about it based on gender.

Sir/Ma'am is a way to be respectful. It is very different from calling someone Honey. He doesn't need to change. The organization understood his background when they hired him. If they were not comfortable with the culture he came from, they should not have hired him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a military/law enforcement way - very hard to stop something so engrained.

And yet .... in some circumstances, we need to learn a new way to be respectful.

Back in the day, people tried to defend employers who called their secretaries "Honey" in much the same way. He doesn't mean anything by it, he's southern, it's ingrained in the way he talks, he truly, truly did not mean any disrespect, it is just a really hard habit to break. Sincerely. It can also be an expensive habit to break. If you can't stop saying Ma'am, don't stop saying Sir either. You just can't be selective about it based on gender.

Sir/Ma'am is a way to be respectful. It is very different from calling someone Honey. He doesn't need to change. The organization understood his background when they hired him. If they were not comfortable with the culture he came from, they should not have hired him.

He's not using Sir/Ma'am, he's only using Ma'am. In other words, he's treating women differently than men. This is not okay in the workplace. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a military/law enforcement way - very hard to stop something so engrained.

And yet .... in some circumstances, we need to learn a new way to be respectful.

Back in the day, people tried to defend employers who called their secretaries "Honey" in much the same way. He doesn't mean anything by it, he's southern, it's ingrained in the way he talks, he truly, truly did not mean any disrespect, it is just a really hard habit to break. Sincerely. It can also be an expensive habit to break. If you can't stop saying Ma'am, don't stop saying Sir either. You just can't be selective about it based on gender.

Sir/Ma'am is a way to be respectful. It is very different from calling someone Honey. He doesn't need to change. The organization understood his background when they hired him. If they were not comfortable with the culture he came from, they should not have hired him.

NP here. He's not calling the men sir, only the women ma'am. I find that weird, don't you?

There was someone at my work with a military background who used to call me "ma'am" and I finally said oh please call me Larla, and so he did. Seems like a solution is for those who dislike it is to ask him straight out to call them what they prefer. If he doesn't, then you take it to another level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a military/law enforcement way - very hard to stop something so engrained.

And yet .... in some circumstances, we need to learn a new way to be respectful.

Back in the day, people tried to defend employers who called their secretaries "Honey" in much the same way. He doesn't mean anything by it, he's southern, it's ingrained in the way he talks, he truly, truly did not mean any disrespect, it is just a really hard habit to break. Sincerely. It can also be an expensive habit to break. If you can't stop saying Ma'am, don't stop saying Sir either. You just can't be selective about it based on gender.

Sir/Ma'am is a way to be respectful. It is very different from calling someone Honey. He doesn't need to change. The organization understood his background when they hired him. If they were not comfortable with the culture he came from, they should not have hired him.

Bullshit. It is his job to adapt to the culture. If the org had not hired him out of fear he would not adapt, that would be discrimination. And again--MOST vets figure this stuff out. They are absolutely capable of adapting. It is demeaning to suggest otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps he should just address OP as "hey, Bitch..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is probably his military background that is more troubling to the OP than the use of the phrase. The phrase is simply an outward sign that reminds the OP that he has a military background. She probably doesn't know how to relate to him and the phrase reminds her that his background is different than hers and she doesn't understand it so she is lashing out at what she doesn't understand. Classic fear of those who are different than you. She should attend training on how to be more inclusive in a diverse working environment.

I don't agree that she has a problem with his military background! Have no trouble with military: great skills, great backgrounds, great people -- like you find in every population.

I taught career transition workshops for the military and always/ often explained that the use of ma'am was not appropriate in the civilian workforce. It is not done in our society anymore and even when it was " done" often only in the south, or children to say to,parents, teachers, elders. My 75 yr old father ( raised in the south) stills says ma'am when he is addressing woman he does not know - very weird and awkward.

In the civilian workforce everyone ( in theory) is equal. Yes, we have bosses and decision makers but there is a sense that everyone in the group/on the team is part of the process so everyone is a "respected" colleague. You have peers and colleagues not a direct command authority. Where I work now, most people have ph.d's yet we don't call each other "Dr", we say hi larlo or will get that to,you larla. In the civilian world, work is done with peers through professional collaboration no matter your title or level. It is a different way of working and thinking and so will likely take him some time.

OT BUT: Totally interested in how/where you did this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a Career Director and get this all of the time from people leaving the military and starting college. Just let him know. Don't let it eat you up. I just say to the folks who call me mam..."I appreciate your manners" and I want to let you know that in order to transition to this new world. "you have to when in Rome...act like the Romans do" and let him know that you are a first name firm and "mam" is for the military and the south. Just keep it simple and nice.

Please don't say it like that. Someone military will find that very offensive.

What about it is offensive?

[Anonymous]

What agency?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it is probably his military background that is more troubling to the OP than the use of the phrase. The phrase is simply an outward sign that reminds the OP that he has a military background. She probably doesn't know how to relate to him and the phrase reminds her that his background is different than hers and she doesn't understand it so she is lashing out at what she doesn't understand. Classic fear of those who are different than you. She should attend training on how to be more inclusive in a diverse working environment.

I don't agree that she has a problem with his military background! Have no trouble with military: great skills, great backgrounds, great people -- like you find in every population.

I taught career transition workshops for the military and always/ often explained that the use of ma'am was not appropriate in the civilian workforce. It is not done in our society anymore and even when it was " done" often only in the south, or children to say to,parents, teachers, elders. My 75 yr old father ( raised in the south) stills says ma'am when he is addressing woman he does not know - very weird and awkward.

In the civilian workforce everyone ( in theory) is equal. Yes, we have bosses and decision makers but there is a sense that everyone in the group/on the team is part of the process so everyone is a "respected" colleague. You have peers and colleagues not a direct command authority. Where I work now, most people have ph.d's yet we don't call each other "Dr", we say hi larlo or will get that to,you larla. In the civilian world, work is done with peers through professional collaboration no matter your title or level. It is a different way of working and thinking and so will likely take him some time.

Thank you, miss.