So how many IB are going to really be at Hardy 2015-2016?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Hardy PTA has become pretty organized. They should conduct a Survey Monkey asking parents and students if they like uniforms or would prefer not to have them. If they nix the uniforms they could institute a reasonably rigid dress code to avoid the stuff I know the admin worries about (jeans worn below the butt with boxers hanging out; non-existent mini skirts; tank tops and mid drafts) The school can collect no longer used uniforms and that is what children showing up to school inappropriately dressed get to wear instead.

The question at Hardy is not with the families who enroll, but the ones who don't.

It is believed that a significantly lower share of in-boundary families choose Hardy than Deal. But nobody outside of DCPS central office really knows, because that information -- the capture rate -- is not publicly revealed. While it may be knowable with information that DCPS has, we don't even know for sure whether anyone in DCPS actually looks at it. If you wanted to address that disparity -- and that in of itself is not a uncontroversial idea, there are plenty of people who say that those who opt out of their neighborhood school lose their voice, but say you wanted to -- the people you should be polling are not the existing Hardy families, but instead the in-boundary families who didn't choose Hardy. But that isn't an easily identifiable group. And people are complicated. For example it's hard to distinguish between those who were always planning on going private for middle school and those who were turned off by a single key issue (eg uniforms).

Oh god, here we go again. Someone up thread said this is more symbolic than substantive (you, pp?) but even so there are posters who want Hardy to change the policy before they would deign to consider enrolling rather than enrolling their kids, joining the PTA, and lobbying for the change. If it's not really a substantive problem it shouldn't keep people from enrolling their kids and mobilizing together to change the policy.

I'm sorry, pp, because I know this is important to you but can you see how this comes across? As a former OOB mom, I'm all in support of you getting in there and trying to change the policy once your kids are enrolled but why should anyone listen to you if you won't make a commitment to the school?

PP here. No, I'm not the one obsessed with uniforms. You've done an excellent job though of emphasizing the point I was trying to make, which is that 1) if you're trying to attract more IB families the existing families are not representative of the people you're trying to target; and 2) the idea of attracting more IB families is not exactly uncontroversial.

It's not controversial with me! If the Hardy families want to get rid of uniforms, more power to them! I completely support whatever the Hardy families want to do about uniforms. So become a Hardy family and have at it. What is controversial is trying to dictate policy without actually being enrolled in the school.

Amen!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB feeder parent here. I do not know a single parent who cares at all about the uniforms. The current IB parents with kids attending Hardy do not care about uniforms (which is why it hasn't been pushed compared to say - honors algebra or Mandarin). I know all of them care about how a Hardy experience would compare against other possible options (Latin, Basis, privates, moving elsewhere). Mostly based on academics and on social/happiness. The 10 Stoddert and 10 Mann and 5 Key (and others?) that are in the current 6th grade class are just like most of the parents I know, but with increased willingness to be 'early adopters' than most in the neighborhood.

But isn't it obvious that if the uniforms were a big deal they wouldn't have chosen Hardy? Aren't the people to ask not the 25 families who chose Hardy, but the hundreds of families with kids in that age cohort who started at a feeder but left the system? Five years ago Key had 100 kindergarteners, 95 of them left. Where did they go and why?

My point isn't about uniforms per se but about the greater challenge of making Hardy a neighborhood school.

Uniforms aside (or maybe not), you make a very, very good point about it being more important to understand the opinions of the parents of the 95 versus the 5. There will always be some early adopters, but it would be great to somehow do exit interviews for the 95 percent who avoid Hardy. The Key parents I know and have known are doing well but are not stratospherically rich. They would send their kids to public MS in a heartbeat if they felt that they could (indeed some have found or are seeking a path to Deal).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IB feeder parent here. I do not know a single parent who cares at all about the uniforms. The current IB parents with kids attending Hardy do not care about uniforms (which is why it hasn't been pushed compared to say - honors algebra or Mandarin). I know all of them care about how a Hardy experience would compare against other possible options (Latin, Basis, privates, moving elsewhere). Mostly based on academics and on social/happiness. The 10 Stoddert and 10 Mann and 5 Key (and others?) that are in the current 6th grade class are just like most of the parents I know, but with increased willingness to be 'early adopters' than most in the neighborhood.

But isn't it obvious that if the uniforms were a big deal they wouldn't have chosen Hardy? Aren't the people to ask not the 25 families who chose Hardy, but the hundreds of families with kids in that age cohort who started at a feeder but left the system? Five years ago Key had 100 kindergarteners, 95 of them left. Where did they go and why?

My point isn't about uniforms per se but about the greater challenge of making Hardy a neighborhood school.

Uniforms aside (or maybe not), you make a very, very good point about it being more important to understand the opinions of the parents of the 95 versus the 5. There will always be some early adopters, but it would be great to somehow do exit interviews for the 95 percent who avoid Hardy. The Key parents I know and have known are doing well but are not stratospherically rich. They would send their kids to public MS in a heartbeat if they felt that they could (indeed some have found or are seeking a path to Deal).

+1 Another Key family here who would love to send kids to public MS. Around 15+ of those kids are at Basis or Latin (with uniforms) & at least 5 at Deal. Maybe a couple parents care a tiny bit about uniforms - but not much. 1/3 of the around 60 kids who are enrolled in 4th grade leave before 5th (not sure if there really were 100 K kids in 2010 - there are about 75 currently & it's considered a 'huge' enrollment year) - there's a loop where families scramble to figure out MS in 4th grade - and in the recent past Hardy hadn't been viewed as a viable option. So, 1/3 of the kids enrolled at Key do end up going to a DC public school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be so easy to drop the uniforms, why don't they just drop them.

It might be that the more prospective Ward 3 parents want the uniforms dropped, that others in the Hardy community who are wary of the school being changed too much by an influx of IB families, embrace the uniforms as a symbol of Hardy's heritage.

Hardy's heritage is that it isn't good enough to attract IB students. If you want to change Hardy, you have to abandon the past.

Uniforms are of a bygone era. It costs the school nothing to do away with them. So much of the the love of the uniforms reeks of: "we had to do it, so you should, too".

I get having pride in your school, but the uniforms are a barrier to IB entry....or is that real point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be so easy to drop the uniforms, why don't they just drop them.

It might be that the more prospective Ward 3 parents want the uniforms dropped, that others in the Hardy community who are wary of the school being changed too much by an influx of IB families, embrace the uniforms as a symbol of Hardy's heritage.

This is an ignorant comment. Nobody at Hardy is wary of the school being changed by IB families. And even if they did care, this year's 6th graders will be done with Hardy before any such change in future years occurs - so even they don't really care. Stop pretending that some mysterious force wants you to not go to Hardy. Everybody there - administrators, teachers, IB parents, OOB parents - everybody - is happy to have you as a Hardy family and your child as a Hardy student. The doors are wide open for you if you an IB family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be so easy to drop the uniforms, why don't they just drop them.

It might be that the more prospective Ward 3 parents want the uniforms dropped, that others in the Hardy community who are wary of the school being changed too much by an influx of IB families, embrace the uniforms as a symbol of Hardy's heritage.

This is an ignorant comment. Nobody at Hardy is wary of the school being changed by IB families. And even if they did care, this year's 6th graders will be done with Hardy before any such change in future years occurs - so even they don't really care. Stop pretending that some mysterious force wants you to not go to Hardy. Everybody there - administrators, teachers, IB parents, OOB parents - everybody - is happy to have you as a Hardy family and your child as a Hardy student. The doors are wide open for you if you an IB family.

Jus don't mess with the uniforms.

[Anonymous]

So, the only ones who care about the uniforms remaining at Hardy are "concerned onlookers" on this board who for some reason care about preserving the "unique culture" of Hardy. Are they Alums? Why do they care?

[Anonymous]

NP. Not a Hardy parent. Will never be a Hardy parent. And not IB for Hardy. Not even sure why I read this thread but oh well.

What is it with folks' OBSESSION with the uniforms??! You are a joke at this point in time. If THAT is what you find objectionable about Hardy, then you are just nitpicking about insignificant details. Or you just trolling these threads. Basically, I would not take anyone seriously who raised uniforms as a major issue. If Deal decided to start using uniforms, I would not care in the slightest, and it would not change my opinion of the school one iota.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, the only ones who care about the uniforms remaining at Hardy are "concerned onlookers" on this board who for some reason care about preserving the "unique culture" of Hardy. Are they Alums? Why do they care?

IB Hardy family with 4 kids. I have visited Hardy and talked to existing students, administration, teachers, and existing parents (I wonder how many parents commenting on this board have actually taken those steps. Most of what I see on this board is not a reflection of what I have actually seen on my own). I have been very impressed and look forward to sending my children to Hardy. I could care less about uniforms. I care about the quality of education and experience for my children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the only ones who care about the uniforms remaining at Hardy are "concerned onlookers" on this board who for some reason care about preserving the "unique culture" of Hardy. Are they Alums? Why do they care?

IB Hardy family with 4 kids. I have visited Hardy and talked to existing students, administration, teachers, and existing parents (I wonder how many parents commenting on this board have actually taken those steps. Most of what I see on this board is not a reflection of what I have actually seen on my own). I have been very impressed and look forward to sending my children to Hardy. I could care less about uniforms. I care about the quality of education and experience for my children.

Right, and your view is considered and logical. But you already plan to send your kids to Hardy. Hardy's challenge is to address those issues that keep the overwhelming majority of its IB families from considering enrolling their kids there in the first place. Why not easily take one of those issues off the table?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be so easy to drop the uniforms, why don't they just drop them.

It might be that the more prospective Ward 3 parents want the uniforms dropped, that others in the Hardy community who are wary of the school being changed too much by an influx of IB families, embrace the uniforms as a symbol of Hardy's heritage.

this is what drives me crazy about this discussion. Pp, have you even been to Hardy to talk to these families who are allegedly embracing the uniforms and who feel threatened by IB families? Back when my kid was there OOB, we would have been happy to have more IB families!

I mean, these people you speculate about may exist but don't you think it would make sense to visit Hardy and meet some of the families there before jumping to this conclusion? It's amazing to me how people on this board, who I assume are well-educated, select vague bits and pieces of information and weave them together to draw conclusions that are not based on actual empirical research. In my family, you do your own direct research and then make a decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the only ones who care about the uniforms remaining at Hardy are "concerned onlookers" on this board who for some reason care about preserving the "unique culture" of Hardy. Are they Alums? Why do they care?

IB Hardy family with 4 kids. I have visited Hardy and talked to existing students, administration, teachers, and existing parents (I wonder how many parents commenting on this board have actually taken those steps. Most of what I see on this board is not a reflection of what I have actually seen on my own). I have been very impressed and look forward to sending my children to Hardy. I could care less about uniforms. I care about the quality of education and experience for my children.

Right, and your view is considered and logical. But you already plan to send your kids to Hardy. Hardy's challenge is to address those issues that keep the overwhelming majority of its IB families from considering enrolling their kids there in the first place. Why not easily take one of those issues off the table?

Because improving academics attracts IB families, while also benefiting the OOB families, and is impossible to argue against. Dropping uniforms, when most families with kids their like them, would be seen as overly preferring the needs of IB families who do not even attend the school over OOB families who do. With both the "real IB" and feeder numbers creeping upwards (and with an expectation they will converge as feeder schools increase their IB percentage) there is no gain to DCPS in making the change, and there is the cost of pissing some OOB families off. The goal of DCPS is to change Hardy - it is NOT to change Hardy overnight. Some IB families do not like that. But that will not change the incentives DCPS faces.

[Anonymous]

Also IB for Hardy -- and am not obsessed with the uniform issue. Nor do I know any parent who is. The concern has always been overall quality of achievement at the school. My conclusion is that the ones harping on uniforms are trolls.

[Anonymous]

We are at Mann (more than one year to go before MS). Leaning towards Hardy, hoping it continues to improve. Uniforms will have no impact on our decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the only ones who care about the uniforms remaining at Hardy are "concerned onlookers" on this board who for some reason care about preserving the "unique culture" of Hardy. Are they Alums? Why do they care?

IB Hardy family with 4 kids. I have visited Hardy and talked to existing students, administration, teachers, and existing parents (I wonder how many parents commenting on this board have actually taken those steps. Most of what I see on this board is not a reflection of what I have actually seen on my own). I have been very impressed and look forward to sending my children to Hardy. I could care less about uniforms. I care about the quality of education and experience for my children.

Right, and your view is considered and logical. But you already plan to send your kids to Hardy. Hardy's challenge is to address those issues that keep the overwhelming majority of its IB families from considering enrolling their kids there in the first place. Why not easily take one of those issues off the table?

Because improving academics attracts IB families, while also benefiting the OOB families, and is impossible to argue against. Dropping uniforms, when most families with kids their like them, would be seen as overly preferring the needs of IB families who do not even attend the school over OOB families who do. With both the "real IB" and feeder numbers creeping upwards (and with an expectation they will converge as feeder schools increase their IB percentage) there is no gain to DCPS in making the change, and there is the cost of pissing some OOB families off. The goal of DCPS is to change Hardy - it is NOT to change Hardy overnight. Some IB families do not like that. But that will not change the incentives DCPS faces.

The problem with patience is that our kids are only young once. For a parent whose kids are going into middle school this year there is no next year.