Admissions Chances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

These are pretty pedestrian accomplishments when it comes to getting into an Ivy. You need an accomplishment at at least the state level, if not at the national level or a very significant leadership accomplishment. The stats you list are shared by thousands and thousands of kids.

that is sad, there should be a great school for someone like this. If the IVYs are not fulfilling their role, there needs to be new schools to fill the void.

You definitely get it. The student who made these scores is a black kid from New York. I only changed 'white' to 'black' to show that there is empathy for someone you can relate to.

Nothing nefarious was ever intended, promise. But just to show how we view things and that the great school you speak of should be for all qualified applicants. Anybody who works hard deserves a chance no matter their color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

These are pretty pedestrian accomplishments when it comes to getting into an Ivy. You need an accomplishment at at least the state level, if not at the national level or a very significant leadership accomplishment. The stats you list are shared by thousands and thousands of kids.

that is sad, there should be a great school for someone like this. If the IVYs are not fulfilling their role, there needs to be new schools to fill the void.

You definitely get it. The student who made these scores is a black kid from New York. I only changed 'white' to 'black' to show that there is empathy for someone you can relate to.

Nothing nefarious was ever intended, promise. But just to show how we view things and that the great school you speak of should be for all qualified applicants. Anybody who works hard deserves a chance no matter their color.

I mean black to white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

These are pretty pedestrian accomplishments when it comes to getting into an Ivy. You need an accomplishment at at least the state level, if not at the national level or a very significant leadership accomplishment. The stats you list are shared by thousands and thousands of kids.

that is sad, there should be a great school for someone like this. If the IVYs are not fulfilling their role, there needs to be new schools to fill the void.

You definitely get it. The student who made these scores is a black kid from New York. I only changed 'white' to 'black' to show that there is empathy for someone you can relate to.

Nothing nefarious was ever intended, promise. But just to show how we view things and that the great school you speak of should be for all qualified applicants. Anybody who works hard deserves a chance no matter their color.

I mean black to white.

not sure what your point is.

IVYs are out of touch with most white AND black students. very few get in. and the ones that do graduate rarely interact with society at large. they tend to associated with other IVYs in professions that are isolated. I don't know of a single IVY student at the financial firm I work at, or the consulting firm before that. granted I know very few lawyers and don't really know what a big law lawyer is, but maybe again that is the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^The entire article should be read in its entirety explaining the reason behind the disproportionate test scores.

Here's another blurb from the same article:

Clearly, one of the main factors in explaining the SAT racial gap is that black students almost across the board are not being adequately schooled to perform well on the SAT and similar tests. Public schools in many neighborhoods with large black populations are underfunded, inadequately staffed, and ill equipped to provide the same quality of secondary education that is offered in predominantly white suburban school districts.

Data from The College Board shows that 57 percent of white students who took the SAT were ranked in the top 20 percent of their high school classes. This compares to 37 percent of black test takers. Some 45 percent of white students who took the SAT report that their high school grade point average was in the A range. This compares to only 22 percent of black test takers. The mean high school grade point average for all white students who took the SAT was 3.37. For blacks the figures was 2.99. These figures alone explain a large portion of the racial scoring gap on the SAT.

There are a lot of possible reasons why the scores might be worse, but it doesn't change the fact that they are, in fact, significantly worse.

You can't possibly be thinking that the kids who are making these scores are the ones that the Ivy schools are admitting?

The black students who are making the cut in the top 25 colleges are the majority cream of the academic crop so to speak. Stanford, for example, (and yes I know it's not an Ivy) has black athletes who are stellar students.

There is no way Yale or any other Ivy is going to let anyone in, black or white or green or purple, with those scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

These are pretty pedestrian accomplishments when it comes to getting into an Ivy. You need an accomplishment at at least the state level, if not at the national level or a very significant leadership accomplishment. The stats you list are shared by thousands and thousands of kids.

that is sad, there should be a great school for someone like this. If the IVYs are not fulfilling their role, there needs to be new schools to fill the void.

You definitely get it. The student who made these scores is a black kid from New York. I only changed 'white' to 'black' to show that there is empathy for someone you can relate to.

Nothing nefarious was ever intended, promise. But just to show how we view things and that the great school you speak of should be for all qualified applicants. Anybody who works hard deserves a chance no matter their color.

I mean black to white.

not sure what your point is.

IVYs are out of touch with most white AND black students. very few get in. and the ones that do graduate rarely interact with society at large. they tend to associated with other IVYs in professions that are isolated. I don't know of a single IVY student at the financial firm I work at, or the consulting firm before that. granted I know very few lawyers and don't really know what a big law lawyer is, but maybe again that is the point.

I work with Ivy and non[Ivy grads in medicine research. Maybe it's the different fields that you and I work in. Sharing knowledge and team work is crucial/critical in my field regardless where you went to school.

Ivy grads don't have the luxury of riding solo. It's just not tolerated nor happening, and I've never encountered it. I work with a bunch of truly dedicated peers, and tt makes a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please tell us about some of your recently-admitted students to some of the nation's top colleges and universities, so that students applying now can gauge their opportunities for admission at various schools. Thank you.

When you start threads like this, surely you must know that it always ends up about URMs getting admitted with substandard credentials. Only four comments in and it started about URMs.

Your best bet is College Confidential. It can get a bit nutty at times there too but they also have college personnel weighing in, and it's their opinions that count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Should this white student be denied admittance to an Ivy or any other school?

'He ranks 11 out of a class of 647, scored 2250 out of 2400 on his SAT college admissions test, took 11 Advanced Placement classes in high school, sings in the a cappella group, is an accomplished violist and athlete. He also makes time to volunteer at a local hospital.'

These are pretty pedestrian accomplishments when it comes to getting into an Ivy. You need an accomplishment at at least the state level, if not at the national level or a very significant leadership accomplishment. The stats you list are shared by thousands and thousands of kids.

that is sad, there should be a great school for someone like this. If the IVYs are not fulfilling their role, there needs to be new schools to fill the void.

You definitely get it. The student who made these scores is a black kid from New York. I only changed 'white' to 'black' to show that there is empathy for someone you can relate to.

Nothing nefarious was ever intended, promise. But just to show how we view things and that the great school you speak of should be for all qualified applicants. Anybody who works hard deserves a chance no matter their color.

And this kid got into all 8 ivy league schools right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please tell us about some of your recently-admitted students to some of the nation's top colleges and universities, so that students applying now can gauge their opportunities for admission at various schools. Thank you.

When you start threads like this, surely you must know that it always ends up about URMs getting admitted with substandard credentials. Only four comments in and it started about URMs.

Your best bet is College Confidential. It can get a bit nutty at times there too but they also have college personnel weighing in, and it's their opinions that count.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

There is a quota on Asians at top colleges so where is the outrage against that?

[Anonymous]

OP, I just returned from a long weekend away to see that my original post asking about the types of grades, extra-curriculars, achievements, and test scores that had gotten your child admitted into a certain college or university - has devolved into an ugly argument about race and ethnicity.

If you cannot answer my original question, that is fine, but please do not hijack this thread to tackle a different discussion. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I just returned from a long weekend away to see that my original post asking about the types of grades, extra-curriculars, achievements, and test scores that had gotten your child admitted into a certain college or university - has devolved into an ugly argument about race and ethnicity.

If you cannot answer my original question, that is fine, but please do not hijack this thread to tackle a different discussion. Thank you.

+1. And that goes for the white and Asian racists alike. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I just returned from a long weekend away to see that my original post asking about the types of grades, extra-curriculars, achievements, and test scores that had gotten your child admitted into a certain college or university - has devolved into an ugly argument about race and ethnicity.

If you cannot answer my original question, that is fine, but please do not hijack this thread to tackle a different discussion. Thank you.

+1. And that goes for the white and Asian racists alike. Thank you.

+2. Racists come in all colors, thank you very much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please tell us about some of your recently-admitted students to some of the nation's top colleges and universities, so that students applying now can gauge their opportunities for admission at various schools. Thank you.

When you start threads like this, surely you must know that it always ends up about URMs getting admitted with substandard credentials. Only four comments in and it started about URMs.

Your best bet is College Confidential. It can get a bit nutty at times there too but they also have college personnel weighing in, and it's their opinions that count.

+1.

+2. However, I suspect that the OP knew what would happen when talking about college admissions if she has been around DCUM for any length of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
not sure what your point is.

IVYs are out of touch with most white AND black students. very few get in. and the ones that do graduate rarely interact with society at large. they tend to associated with other IVYs in professions that are isolated. I don't know of a single IVY student at the financial firm I work at, or the consulting firm before that. granted I know very few lawyers and don't really know what a big law lawyer is, but maybe again that is the point.

Are you kidding us? Not sure what type of financial firm you worked at, maybe it was a payday lending joint or some such thing. But a former Yale prof has just published a book complaining that a big problem with the Ivies is that grads all go off to finance and law. So which is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

I think these admittance figures are misleading. I would bet that there are lots of white kids who reach for schools that they might not get into, but their African American counterparts probably don't do this as often. Black kids often don't have the same family history of attendance at competitive institutions so they aren't getting encouraged to apply by their parents. Instead, guidance counselors encourage top minority students to apply to places.

But AA students with scores lower than the white kids "reaching" for schools are admitted at rates >70% for a school like UVA. 55% of AA students at UVA with SAT's between 950-1050 got admitted, compared to 15% of white students. 75% are let in with scores between 1050-1150 vs. 20% for white students. As an aside, I'm shocked that anybody is getting into UVA with SAT's in the 900s. I wonder how many are athletes?

I don't think you understand the numbers.