Admissions Chances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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OP here, I visit DCUM once in a while, I also read College Confidential, and based on the type of informative, honest, straightforward responses which my similar question yielded on CC, I would never have anticipated that my question would have devolved into some sort of race or ethnicity wars in a place as educated and civilized as DC.

I officially withdraw my original question, and ask that people please cease responding to the ugly postings on this thread. Thank you.

There are maybe one or two questionable remarks but even they aren't 'ugly' as you put it. There has been sound debate (doesn't matter if you agree or disagree), and I don't see any ugliness or vitriolic response or language. Yes, the thread did go in another direction but anyone who has been on DCUM for awhile in this forum knows it eventually bounces back to the original topic as someone will make a relating comment.

And as far as College Confidential goes, I have been a follower for years. It most certainly has its questionable moments especially in the prep school forum. It is unfortunate that you find the people here not quite to your liking as they engage in spirited debate. With that said, please stay away from the Political Forum as you most likely will find it extraordinarily distateful to your delicate sensibilities.

Team OP here. Like OP, I'm sick of the racism that turns every thread into "the reason my kid didn't get into HYP is because some undeserving minority was given his slot." You people need to grow up and do some reflecting about the real reasons your kids were rejected (grinds with no compelling story?).

It's also pathetic that PP thinks s/he's justified for derailing yet another thread on this topic. Couching it in what passes for condescending "humor" is a fail, too.

You think only Blacks are a minority group in this country. Asians are a minority group as well and they are discriminated against just as blacks are. Your whole attitude above proves the point that Asians are worse off since racism against Asians doesn't even count so don't even bother responding to racist comments made against them. You should really think long and hard whether you would be willing to so casually dismiss such racist comments against blacks, wait, you don' because you are sick and tired of comments against the real "minorities" not the Asians. I bet you didn't even see the above statement as a slight against Asians. You are a hypocrite! Asians face real racial discrimination in many aspects you can't even imagine including in college admissions based on race alone and that is wrong any way you slice it. And, to add insult to injury, you have people posting comments like " So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while [b]Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.
Where is the outrage?[/b]"

Why aren't you sick and tired of such racist comments like the above? Why are any comments just responding to racist statement such as above attacked as being "pathetic" in your mind? I am sick and tired of the double standard. I guess Asians should learn to protest and riot like the "true minority group" to gain some recognition. It seems being a model minority group doesn't pay.

The comment is facetious as in so outraged about a handful of black people taking seats but no outrage for any other minority group that takes more seats.

And as far as your other comment about the protesting and rioting like 'true minority group', it is a classless, tasteless, and ignorant remark. I would never have empathy for anyone who makes such a nasty remark.

Nobody is asking for your empathy or sympathy. You can keep that all to your self. Just don't be a hypocrite and open your eyes a bit wider. As to the bolded statement, you still don't get it after the situation was explained to you in plain English. The phrase "Asians --- have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks" is a clearly a slight/insult to Asians. The Asians are not snatching up anything! They have to earn it with sweat and tears and they have to show qualifications way better than any other group just because they happen to be Asian Americans. You make it sound like Asians are taking something that doesn't belong to them. As I said, Asians have to show higher SAT scores, higher GPAs, more ECs, more leadership positions, more awards, etc. etc. compared to any other racial groups. How is that Asians "snatching up far more seats than Blacks"?

In addition, as to learning to "protest and riot", there certainly is a certain amount of truth to that statement. Asians are stepped on all over the place since we all know" they ain't gonna do nothing about it". You are not being honest with your self if you deny it.

I think a good place for your comments and thoughts are on the political thread. I'll be looking for your post there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^You have way too much self-pity and a woe is me attitude. You frown on other minorities who do the same thing but yet in your eyes, it's different when you do it.

Pitiful regardless who's doing it.

You fail to respond to the points made in the previous posting and pretend to be an incoherent psychologist. Just stick to the points.

Doesn't really matter. You don't have to be an amateur psychologist nor even an incoherent one to see where your head is at. You want confrontation, Tiger Mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^You have way too much self-pity and a woe is me attitude. You frown on other minorities who do the same thing but yet in your eyes, it's different when you do it.

Pitiful regardless who's doing it.

You fail to respond to the points made in the previous posting and pretend to be an incoherent psychologist. Just stick to the points.

Doesn't really matter. You don't have to be an amateur psychologist nor even an incoherent one to see where your head is at. You want confrontation, Tiger Mom.

If the facts are not on your side, argue the law, if the law is not on your side argue the facts. If you have neither, start pounding the table or in this case, start calling/throwing out names. You are mentally lazy and pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^You have way too much self-pity and a woe is me attitude. You frown on other minorities who do the same thing but yet in your eyes, it's different when you do it.

Pitiful regardless who's doing it.

You fail to respond to the points made in the previous posting and pretend to be an incoherent psychologist. Just stick to the points.

Doesn't really matter. You don't have to be an amateur psychologist nor even an incoherent one to see where your head is at. You want confrontation, Tiger Mom.

If the facts are not on your side, argue the law, if the law is not on your side argue the facts. If you have neither, start pounding the table or in this case, start calling/throwing out names. You are mentally lazy and pathetic.

Well, there you have it. This is truly who the poster is. When s/he can't force a confrontation, then start with name calling.

You are not worth the time. Enjoy debating with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^You have way too much self-pity and a woe is me attitude. You frown on other minorities who do the same thing but yet in your eyes, it's different when you do it.

Pitiful regardless who's doing it.

You fail to respond to the points made in the previous posting and pretend to be an incoherent psychologist. Just stick to the points.

Doesn't really matter. You don't have to be an amateur psychologist nor even an incoherent one to see where your head is at. You want confrontation, Tiger Mom.

If the facts are not on your side, argue the law, if the law is not on your side argue the facts. If you have neither, start pounding the table or in this case, start calling/throwing out names. You are mentally lazy and pathetic.

Well, there you have it. This is truly who the poster is. When s/he can't force a confrontation, then start with name calling.

You are not worth the time. Enjoy debating with yourself.

I am only using the same word you have used to spark this debate "It's also pathetic ---" and you started throwing out names like "Tiger Mom" instead of making valid arguments which was pointed out in the PP. It's ok when you use words like "pathetic" but apparently you have to feign being shocked when someone else uses the same word that you used to start the debate. Now that is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Please stop, this thread has truly devolved into the ugly now, and I do not think that anyone can still call this a good-natured, spirited, political debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please stop, this thread has truly devolved into the ugly now, and I do not think that anyone can still call this a good-natured, spirited, political debate.

Just stop responding including me. No one has since last night. Leave it and eventually it will die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

There is a quota on Asians at top colleges so where is the outrage against that?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Naviance and talking to your student's guidance counselor can yield the best information. That said, the top top colleges are a crap shoot unless you have a hook (won state science fair, nationally top ten ranked in his/her sport, grandfather just gave $2M, won a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize, discovered a treatment for Ebola....). It doesn't mean not to take the crap shoot if you think you may be one of the lucky ones, but make sure you have a backup.

you forgot URM. the score gap between asian and black at a place like princeton is insane. A black kid with 2100 boards and decent grades will get into multiple top 10 schools.

I was reading an analysis of this for UVA; being Black gives a massive boost; being Hispanic gives a significantly smaller advantage. In another article the average Black student at UVA has a ~1050 on the SATs and the average white student had a ~1350.

Here: http://www.nas.org/images/documents/report_affirmative_action_at_three_universities.pdf

Some interesting stats:

The odds ratio for blacks compared to whites at NCS is 13 to 1, but at UVA it is 106 to 1 and at William &Mary 267 to 1. In other words, at UVA the odds of a black student being admitted is more than 100 times the odds of admission of a white student with the same qualifications. The odds of admitting a black applicant at William & Mary is more than 250 times the odds of admitting an equally-qualified white applicant. The odds ratios for Asians at all three schools are less than one, meaning that Asians are less likely to be admitted than equally-qualified whites (the odds ratio for Asians at UVA is not statistically significant). The odds ratios for Hispanics are 2.8 and 1.9 at UVA and NCS, respectively, but less than one at W&M.

This is absurd. By these stats, not just UVA but many colleges would be majority African American. That certainly is not the case, and it's misleading to consistently suggest that black applicants get this 'massive boost' in admissions.

UCLA has a significant Asian admittance rating and, using your words, the odds are more than 100 times the odds of a qualified white or black student to be admitted.

I don't follow your reasoning. How would top colleges be majority AA? Do you think there are a ton of Black students out there with high SAT scores? The average SAT scores for Blacks in the US was about 860. And these aren't "my" stats or words; they came from the article supplied. They were obtained using FOIA. I think anyone who doesn't think that being Black gives you a big advantage in selective college admittance is being willfully obtuse.

If you think Black kids are getting into Ivy schools with inferior grades, scores, and aptitudes then it is you who is obtuse. Do you really think places like Harvard would let anyone in who couldn't hold their own academically regardless of color?

So concerned about the handful of qualified Black applicants being admitted while Asians and other foreign applicants have systematically snatched up far more seats than Blacks.

Where is the outrage?

There is a quota on Asians at top colleges so where is the outrage against that?

+1

The Ivy League colleges maintained Asian student population at about 17 to 18% of the entering class each year for at least the last 15 years even though the Asian high school students probably doubled and the number of Asian Americans applying to these schools approximately doubled during that period as well. Appears to be too much of a coincidence to be random.

[Anonymous]

^^Maybe the Ivy schools would like representation from all groups. 50+ years ago there was one majority ethnic group in all the Ivys. Those days are over, and no one ethnic group will ever be allowed to displace everyone else again. Doesn't matter whose population has increased, doubled, whatever. Or which group scores 2400 on standardized exams every time.

There are many smart, hard working kids in every ethnic group. The smart schools will allot representation from every group since no one group has a monopoly on intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The Ivy League colleges maintained Asian student population at about 17 to 18% of the entering class each year for at least the last 15 years even though the Asian high school students probably doubled and the number of Asian Americans applying to these schools approximately doubled during that period as well. Appears to be too much of a coincidence to be random.

The numbers of *every* subgroup just about doubled over the past 15 years. You can thank the Common App and rising anxiety for that.

[Anonymous]

In 30 years when our children will be competing for corner offices, Ivy League educations will not be especially important. College admissions are so competitive today that extraordinarily smart and ambitious students are now attending second tier colleges. Our population is about 350 million and our economy is international. Today's second tier will be tomorrow's first tier. Even today jaws don't drop when Ivy League grads enter the room. Eventually, Ivy Leaguers will just be graduates from a much larger pool of excellent colleges which have distinguished alums and huge endowments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In 30 years when our children will be competing for corner offices, Ivy League educations will not be especially important. College admissions are so competitive today that extraordinarily smart and ambitious students are now attending second tier colleges. Our population is about 350 million and our economy is international. Today's second tier will be tomorrow's first tier. Even today jaws don't drop when Ivy League grads enter the room. Eventually, Ivy Leaguers will just be graduates from a much larger pool of excellent colleges which have distinguished alums and huge endowments.

A voice of logic and reason. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^You have way too much self-pity and a woe is me attitude. You frown on other minorities who do the same thing but yet in your eyes, it's different when you do it.

Pitiful regardless who's doing it.

You fail to respond to the points made in the previous posting and pretend to be an incoherent psychologist. Just stick to the points.

Doesn't really matter. You don't have to be an amateur psychologist nor even an incoherent one to see where your head is at. You want confrontation, Tiger Mom.

If the facts are not on your side, argue the law, if the law is not on your side argue the facts. If you have neither, start pounding the table or in this case, start calling/throwing out names. You are mentally lazy and pathetic.

when it comes to pathetic ...it appears that the only one that is pathetic I you...poster......MODERATOR shut it down!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^You have way too much self-pity and a woe is me attitude. You frown on other minorities who do the same thing but yet in your eyes, it's different when you do it.

Pitiful regardless who's doing it.

You fail to respond to the points made in the previous posting and pretend to be an incoherent psychologist. Just stick to the points.

Doesn't really matter. You don't have to be an amateur psychologist nor even an incoherent one to see where your head is at. You want confrontation, Tiger Mom.

If the facts are not on your side, argue the law, if the law is not on your side argue the facts. If you have neither, start pounding the table or in this case, start calling/throwing out names. You are mentally lazy and pathetic.

when it comes to pathetic ...it appears that the only one that is pathetic I you...poster......MODERATOR shut it down!

Do you want to shut down and silence anyone who disagrees with you?