The wisdom of rewarding Montgomery’s school employees (Washington Post)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You bet my kids are in private school. I wouldn't send my dog to public school. You and I pay taxes so your kids can be taught by the lovely person posting above me.

Wow, just wow. I thought you sounded ignorant. And you are indeed ignorant about everything to do with public schools and public school teachers.

Ignorance doesn't seem to stop you from being obnoxious with your opinions though. You sound like a complete loser.

I am a product of public schools... maybe that's my problem.

You clearly have a number of different problems, honey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You bet my kids are in private school. I wouldn't send my dog to public school. You and I pay taxes so your kids can be taught by the lovely person posting above me.

Wow, just wow. I thought you sounded ignorant. And you are indeed ignorant about everything to do with public schools and public school teachers.

Ignorance doesn't seem to stop you from being obnoxious with your opinions though. You sound like a complete loser.

I am a product of public schools... maybe that's my problem.

Public schools don't teach you to shoot your mouth off about stuff you know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

You probably won't believe this, but I am a teacher in MCPS. I hate our union. I wish we didn't have one. I NEVER vote for Apple Ballot candidates. I would much rather get rid of Curriculum 2.0, shrink class sizes, hire principals with some balls that will actually discipline and hold students back who are not ready to move forward. However, I am sure of the 22,000 teachers in the county, I am one of 10 who feels this way.

I do understand the public's outcry at the raises and I get it. The money was already allocated to MCPS and it was up to them how they were going to spend it. The Superintendent feels that his teachers should be rewarded; maybe becuase the burnout rate is so high or because morale is so low he thinks this will help (and I agree it will help in both cases). The county is pissed and I am sure they will reduce the budget next year because of this, but by all means, vote non-Apple ballot.

Just curious though, everyone has stated the money for teacher raises is a bad idea, where would parents (with children in public school) like the money to go in MCPS?

I'm a MCPS parent and while I don't object to teacher's getting raises I do think that this will not solve the problem of burn out. It seems to me that Starr is hoping the raise will overcome teacher frustration at curriculum 2.0, more time spent teaching to the test, fewer classroom resources and less help with more students in the class. To answer your question, I would prefer that more money be allocated to improving the experience for both students and teachers. More teaching assistants will mean less burn out for teachers and improved outcomes for students. More staff development and incentive programs will help new teachers become stronger and improve the outcomes for their students.

[Anonymous]

I have no problem with teachers being paid more than police or firefighters, based on education or a host of other factors. In fact, for the most part teachers in MoCo ARE better paid than police and FF. But that's not the issue here. The issue is, in a difficult economic climate, where many people in the private sector haven't received raises (and in fact have had salaries cut), AND where other municipal employees, including FF and cops, are not getting raises (but $2000 bonuses), why should teachers be treated differently? Would the population scream and holler if the cops, FF, and county offices cut services in order to give raises? You bet they would. But that's what is happening in schools.

The obvious answer, as a PP pointed out, is that the money had been allocated to the schools, and the internal budgeting process is at the superintendent's and Board's discretion (I think). So it's not like the same decisionmaker preferred teachers over other municipal employees. But regardless of who made the decision, the reality is that some employees who are paid by tax dollars got raises, while others didn't.

No one's saying teachers don't work hard, or deserve raises (well, at least I'm not). But working hard and deserving something isn't the end of the equation. The money has to be there, and the schools have decided reducing services is an acceptable tradeoff to finance the raises (whatever they are). Other government entities haven't made the same choice, and that's why people are puzzled (and perturbed) by this. Add to that people in the private sector who are working just as hard (if not harder) than they were 4 years ago, and who are making the same (or less) money, and whether you agree with it or not, the reaction is understandable.

No teacher is going to attempt to answer this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You probably won't believe this, but I am a teacher in MCPS. I hate our union. I wish we didn't have one. I NEVER vote for Apple Ballot candidates. I would much rather get rid of Curriculum 2.0, shrink class sizes, hire principals with some balls that will actually discipline and hold students back who are not ready to move forward. However, I am sure of the 22,000 teachers in the county, I am one of 10 who feels this way.

I do understand the public's outcry at the raises and I get it. The money was already allocated to MCPS and it was up to them how they were going to spend it. The Superintendent feels that his teachers should be rewarded; maybe becuase the burnout rate is so high or because morale is so low he thinks this will help (and I agree it will help in both cases). The county is pissed and I am sure they will reduce the budget next year because of this, but by all means, vote non-Apple ballot.

Just curious though, everyone has stated the money for teacher raises is a bad idea, where would parents (with children in public school) like the money to go in MCPS?

I'm a MCPS parent and while I don't object to teacher's getting raises I do think that this will not solve the problem of burn out. It seems to me that Starr is hoping the raise will overcome teacher frustration at curriculum 2.0, more time spent teaching to the test, fewer classroom resources and less help with more students in the class. To answer your question, I would prefer that more money be allocated to improving the experience for both students and teachers. More teaching assistants will mean less burn out for teachers and improved outcomes for students. More staff development and incentive programs will help new teachers become stronger and improve the outcomes for their students.

How about allocating money to make the elementary curriculum a richer experience? Perhaps to hire science teachers for elementary schools and to do whatever is necessary to increase PE, music, and art time.

[Anonymous]

I have worked as an educator in states where teachers get poorly compensated in Texas and South Carolina....trust me when I say that you wouldn't want your kids attending the majority of schools in these areas. I truly believe you get what you pay for....Teachers are nicely compensated in MOCO, and the county can therefore typically attract a more talented and high caliber workforce. I was getting ready to jump ship to another county where the cost of living is lower....however, the step increases have lured me to stay put. I have a doctorate, work a 12 month year, and will make $86,000 with 9 years of experience, once the raises kick in. I think this is a good salary, even when factoring in the high cost of living here. So yes, I definitely make more than than the average teacher in the nation but am on par or below other white collar professionals in the DC metro area. I don't understand the attack on teachers--do you want those who educate your children to not be fairly compensated? I think people have subscribed to the notion that certain helping professionals have no right to earn a decent income as perhaps they think it detracts from the "nobleness" of the field, and become outraged when there is evidence to the contrary. Teaching remains a highly feminized profession and I can't help but wonder if there are some underlying sexist notions at work as well, regarding women and monetary compensation.

[Anonymous]

As an educator, I agree.

However, considering you're now 12 months, I imagine you're an instructional specialist with the ability to climb to coordinator, director, supervisor, etc. So it's a bit easier to praise our system when you're not in the classroom working directly with children.

Would you ever return? That's the difficult question to answer honestly. And if not, why???

Anonymous wrote:I have worked as an educator in states where teachers get poorly compensated in Texas and South Carolina....trust me when I say that you wouldn't want your kids attending the majority of schools in these areas. I truly believe you get what you pay for....Teachers are nicely compensated in MOCO, and the county can therefore typically attract a more talented and high caliber workforce. I was getting ready to jump ship to another county where the cost of living is lower....however, the step increases have lured me to stay put. I have a doctorate, work a 12 month year, and will make $86,000 with 9 years of experience, once the raises kick in. I think this is a good salary, even when factoring in the high cost of living here. So yes, I definitely make more than than the average teacher in the nation but am on par or below other white collar professionals in the DC metro area. I don't understand the attack on teachers--do you want those who educate your children to not be fairly compensated? I think people have subscribed to the notion that certain helping professionals have no right to earn a decent income as perhaps they think it detracts from the "nobleness" of the field, and become outraged when there is evidence to the contrary. Teaching remains a highly feminized profession and I can't help but wonder if there are some underlying sexist notions at work as well, regarding women and monetary compensation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked as an educator in states where teachers get poorly compensated in Texas and South Carolina....trust me when I say that you wouldn't want your kids attending the majority of schools in these areas. I truly believe you get what you pay for....Teachers are nicely compensated in MOCO, and the county can therefore typically attract a more talented and high caliber workforce. I was getting ready to jump ship to another county where the cost of living is lower....however, the step increases have lured me to stay put. I have a doctorate, work a 12 month year, and will make $86,000 with 9 years of experience, once the raises kick in. I think this is a good salary, even when factoring in the high cost of living here. So yes, I definitely make more than than the average teacher in the nation but am on par or below other white collar professionals in the DC metro area. I don't understand the attack on teachers--do you want those who educate your children to not be fairly compensated? I think people have subscribed to the notion that certain helping professionals have no right to earn a decent income as perhaps they think it detracts from the "nobleness" of the field, and become outraged when there is evidence to the contrary. Teaching remains a highly feminized profession and I can't help but wonder if there are some underlying sexist notions at work as well, regarding women and monetary compensation.

So questioning whether raises are appropriate when no other county employees are receiving comparable increases constitutes an "attack" and a belief that teachers shodu not be "fairly compensated" is just absurd. It's a straw man. No one is arguing that teachers shouldn't been fairly compensated. Please stop trying to change the argument.

[Anonymous]

Yes, I'll answer this.

If we poured more money into education - resources and salaries - we'd continue to attract AND RETAIN teachers. Furthermore, by being proactive - by educating ALL children - there would be fewer drop outs, fewer kids sent to juvie, and fewer kids joining gangs.

We could offer more options for alternative routes to graduation, such as expanding Edison, where students learn trades. Trades are suffering because we expect every student to go to college. And let's face it; college isn't for everyone. I want a reputable plumber! I want a reliable electrician. I want to trust someone to style my wavy hair so that I walk of the salon looking like a million bucks!

So be proactive, people, and invest in our youth. And if you think that teachers are so giving that they'll opt for Mac 'n Cheese each night b/c they're choosing to pay for materials out of pocket, you're sadly mistaken. We have families to feed, too. I did not enter this field to become a martyr. I am educated with multiple degrees and am very successful in the classroom. I've had many opportunities to leave the profession and to climb by working in central office. I chose to stay for many reasons.

But not all talented teachers will do so, as I've already seen quite a few leave w/in the first five years. very sad indeed

But so many of you look at this investment as a drain. That's absolutely pathetic b/c you don't see the big picture.

An investment in education is an investment in the future. cliche' but true

Anonymous wrote:

I have no problem with teachers being paid more than police or firefighters, based on education or a host of other factors. In fact, for the most part teachers in MoCo ARE better paid than police and FF. But that's not the issue here. The issue is, in a difficult economic climate, where many people in the private sector haven't received raises (and in fact have had salaries cut), AND where other municipal employees, including FF and cops, are not getting raises (but $2000 bonuses), why should teachers be treated differently? Would the population scream and holler if the cops, FF, and county offices cut services in order to give raises? You bet they would. But that's what is happening in schools.

The obvious answer, as a PP pointed out, is that the money had been allocated to the schools, and the internal budgeting process is at the superintendent's and Board's discretion (I think). So it's not like the same decisionmaker preferred teachers over other municipal employees. But regardless of who made the decision, the reality is that some employees who are paid by tax dollars got raises, while others didn't.

No one's saying teachers don't work hard, or deserve raises (well, at least I'm not). But working hard and deserving something isn't the end of the equation. The money has to be there, and the schools have decided reducing services is an acceptable tradeoff to finance the raises (whatever they are). Other government entities haven't made the same choice, and that's why people are puzzled (and perturbed) by this. Add to that people in the private sector who are working just as hard (if not harder) than they were 4 years ago, and who are making the same (or less) money, and whether you agree with it or not, the reaction is understandable.

No teacher is going to attempt to answer this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You probably won't believe this, but I am a teacher in MCPS. I hate our union. I wish we didn't have one. I NEVER vote for Apple Ballot candidates. I would much rather get rid of Curriculum 2.0, shrink class sizes, hire principals with some balls that will actually discipline and hold students back who are not ready to move forward. However, I am sure of the 22,000 teachers in the county, I am one of 10 who feels this way.

I do understand the public's outcry at the raises and I get it. The money was already allocated to MCPS and it was up to them how they were going to spend it. The Superintendent feels that his teachers should be rewarded; maybe becuase the burnout rate is so high or because morale is so low he thinks this will help (and I agree it will help in both cases). The county is pissed and I am sure they will reduce the budget next year because of this, but by all means, vote non-Apple ballot.

Just curious though, everyone has stated the money for teacher raises is a bad idea, where would parents (with children in public school) like the money to go in MCPS?

I'm a MCPS parent and while I don't object to teacher's getting raises I do think that this will not solve the problem of burn out. It seems to me that Starr is hoping the raise will overcome teacher frustration at curriculum 2.0, more time spent teaching to the test, fewer classroom resources and less help with more students in the class. To answer your question, I would prefer that more money be allocated to improving the experience for both students and teachers. More teaching assistants will mean less burn out for teachers and improved outcomes for students. More staff development and incentive programs will help new teachers become stronger and improve the outcomes for their students.

How about allocating money to make the elementary curriculum a richer experience? Perhaps to hire science teachers for elementary schools and to do whatever is necessary to increase PE, music, and art time.

robbing Peter to pay Paul?

So do we ignore the middle and high levels?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have worked as an educator in states where teachers get poorly compensated in Texas and South Carolina....trust me when I say that you wouldn't want your kids attending the majority of schools in these areas. I truly believe you get what you pay for....Teachers are nicely compensated in MOCO, and the county can therefore typically attract a more talented and high caliber workforce. I was getting ready to jump ship to another county where the cost of living is lower....however, the step increases have lured me to stay put. I have a doctorate, work a 12 month year, and will make $86,000 with 9 years of experience, once the raises kick in. I think this is a good salary, even when factoring in the high cost of living here. So yes, I definitely make more than than the average teacher in the nation but am on par or below other white collar professionals in the DC metro area. I don't understand the attack on teachers--do you want those who educate your children to not be fairly compensated? I think people have subscribed to the notion that certain helping professionals have no right to earn a decent income as perhaps they think it detracts from the "nobleness" of the field, and become outraged when there is evidence to the contrary. Teaching remains a highly feminized profession and I can't help but wonder if there are some underlying sexist notions at work as well, regarding women and monetary compensation.

So questioning whether raises are appropriate when no other county employees are receiving comparable increases constitutes an "attack" and a belief that teachers shodu not be "fairly compensated" is just absurd. It's a straw man. No one is arguing that teachers shouldn't been fairly compensated. Please stop trying to change the argument.

PP is not trying to change the argument. YOU just don't get it.

Again, what are your priorities? Would you rather spend your tax money housing prisoners or educating our youth?

tons of juvies out there, whether you want to acknowledge that or not
hundreds of gang members in your own backyard

I've seen my fair share of troubled kids saved by some good teachers. One, in fact, got a full ride to Princeton.

So you decide.

[Anonymous]

Do the teachers on here really not understand that the rest of us are NOT getting raises, "step" increases, cost of living raises, etc.? Do you not understand that many of us haven't seen any additional money in our paychecks for 4+ years; that we have to pay more money each month for our health insurance; that we don't get pensions; that we are expected to work more for not additional money? That is what many on this board are saying. We are living in this area, making no additional money, working hard, being "deserving" and all the rest...but we aren't getting any more money, so paying more hurts us a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the teachers on here really not understand that the rest of us are NOT getting raises, "step" increases, cost of living raises, etc.? Do you not understand that many of us haven't seen any additional money in our paychecks for 4+ years; that we have to pay more money each month for our health insurance; that we don't get pensions; that we are expected to work more for not additional money? That is what many on this board are saying. We are living in this area, making no additional money, working hard, being "deserving" and all the rest...but we aren't getting any more money, so paying more hurts us a lot.

Then don't expect a quality education for your children.

That's the simple fact.

Unless we put our money where are mouths are we will not be able to offer our children a solid K-8 program that will prepare them to become successful adults.

And keep in mind that WE - teachers - are taxpayers, too. So I, too, have a say in what I think is best for our students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do the teachers on here really not understand that the rest of us are NOT getting raises, "step" increases, cost of living raises, etc.? Do you not understand that many of us haven't seen any additional money in our paychecks for 4+ years; that we have to pay more money each month for our health insurance; that we don't get pensions; that we are expected to work more for not additional money? That is what many on this board are saying. We are living in this area, making no additional money, working hard, being "deserving" and all the rest...but we aren't getting any more money, so paying more hurts us a lot.

A little problem with time here, past vs. present. Sure, none of us got raises or step increases over the *past* few years. But as we pull out of the recession, more and more people are starting to get raises and step increases. Actually, not me, but others I know are starting to get raises again. So you think teachers should be the *last* to get raises, they should wait on line after everybody else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the teachers on here really not understand that the rest of us are NOT getting raises, "step" increases, cost of living raises, etc.? Do you not understand that many of us haven't seen any additional money in our paychecks for 4+ years; that we have to pay more money each month for our health insurance; that we don't get pensions; that we are expected to work more for not additional money? That is what many on this board are saying. We are living in this area, making no additional money, working hard, being "deserving" and all the rest...but we aren't getting any more money, so paying more hurts us a lot.

A little problem with time here, past vs. present. Sure, none of us got raises or step increases over the *past* few years. But as we pull out of the recession, more and more people are starting to get raises and step increases. Actually, not me, but others I know are starting to get raises again. So you think teachers should be the *last* to get raises, they should wait on line after everybody else?

Take a look at the recent jobs numbers and economic indicators. We aren't pulling out of the recession. If anything, we're about to re-enter another recession.

When one choses to work in the public sector then, yes, they will need to wait until revenue can justify additional expenditures to cover raises. Similarly, in a business, one must wait for sales/profits to increase before expecting a raise. That is just the way it works. It is basic economics.

To the PP who suggests, that parents can't expect their children to get a good education without providing these raises to the teachers. Baloney. That is extortion and not good faith. Can you imagine someone in the private sector demanding a raise when profits don't support it and then telling the boss to not expect quality work without such a raise. Any employer would fire that person so fast and fill the job with someone else. I think its time for public sector employees to get a grip and wake up to the economic realities that the rest of us live with at work.