The wisdom of rewarding Montgomery’s school employees (Washington Post)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My SIL was an elementary school teacher. She and many of her co-workers would leave after 5 years but it has nothing to do with raises. The issue is lack of affordable childcare and childcare that fits a teacher's schedule. Teachers are predominantly women and many get married and start having kids within their first five years. Childcare in this area is extremely expensive and the models out there do not provide any options for only 10 months of care. Teachers also don't have the flexibility to work from home or take an afternoon off for a kid's doctor's appointment.

If there were affordable quality childcare options, childcare that would run only 10 months, and more teachers so that they could take more flextime then you would see more teachers staying in the profession past 5 years. Some teachers will still decide to stay home but many would keep working if it wasn't so logistically problematic.


I'm familiar with a lot of research that studies teachers and teacher education as part of my job. While it is true that up to 50% of new teachers leave the field within 5 years, it is roundly concluded that there are many reasons for leaving and the majority of those reasons have to do with working conditions, school governance, and compensation over time (though this last one is not the top reason most leave the field.).

While affordable childcare is an important social issue, it is not listed as a reason teachers leave the profession, so unless you have a recent study that uncovers this new phenomenon, I'm guessing you are just generalizing from your SIL's experience and cannot possible draw the conclusions you do about teacher retention and childcare.


Finding childcare is a pain in the ass. Try a 2-income household with two high school teachers who work 10 months. We are lucky in that we share a nanny who is willing to split her time btw us and our good friends. But we pay her well, which is a financial drain at times. How many nannies would be willing to do morning care - two schools - by arriving at 6:30 in the morning so that two teachers could be at work by 7 am. And that's b/c we have easy commutes! She'd have to arrive earlier if that weren't the case.

And then b/c we have summers off, if we used an institutionalized daycare, we'd have to pay for those spots over the summer, as it's rare to find a childcare provider who would overlook those 8 weeks.

I've had many conversations with teachers who have a hard time finding care. It's easier at the elementary level, where start times are later. But to see my colleagues with young children rush to drop off, fight traffic and then rush to school is pathetic!

So you can do all the research you want, PP. I know more people in this situation than you do.

It's not easy.

I'm the PP you're quoting. I never said finding good childcare was easy. In fact, if you read my post, I said that affordable child care is an important social issue. High quality, affordable childcare is a huge need for all working parents, including teachers. No doubt about it.

But you are still wrong. Of the teachers who leave the profession in the first five years, childcare is not listed as a reason they leave the profession. It may be the reason your SIL or your friends leave, but it is not the reason most of the 50% of new teachers leave teaching within 5 years.

I'm not going to bother dealing with your nonsense attempts at closing insults and suggest you read more thoroughly before being so rude next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My SIL was an elementary school teacher. She and many of her co-workers would leave after 5 years but it has nothing to do with raises. The issue is lack of affordable childcare and childcare that fits a teacher's schedule. Teachers are predominantly women and many get married and start having kids within their first five years. Childcare in this area is extremely expensive and the models out there do not provide any options for only 10 months of care. Teachers also don't have the flexibility to work from home or take an afternoon off for a kid's doctor's appointment.

If there were affordable quality childcare options, childcare that would run only 10 months, and more teachers so that they could take more flextime then you would see more teachers staying in the profession past 5 years. Some teachers will still decide to stay home but many would keep working if it wasn't so logistically problematic.

I'm familiar with a lot of research that studies teachers and teacher education as part of my job. While it is true that up to 50% of new teachers leave the field within 5 years, it is roundly concluded that there are many reasons for leaving and the majority of those reasons have to do with working conditions, school governance, and compensation over time (though this last one is not the top reason most leave the field.).

While affordable childcare is an important social issue, it is not listed as a reason teachers leave the profession, so unless you have a recent study that uncovers this new phenomenon, I'm guessing you are just generalizing from your SIL's experience and cannot possible draw the conclusions you do about teacher retention and childcare.

Finding childcare is a pain in the ass. Try a 2-income household with two high school teachers who work 10 months. We are lucky in that we share a nanny who is willing to split her time btw us and our good friends. But we pay her well, which is a financial drain at times. How many nannies would be willing to do morning care - two schools - by arriving at 6:30 in the morning so that two teachers could be at work by 7 am. And that's b/c we have easy commutes! She'd have to arrive earlier if that weren't the case.

And then b/c we have summers off, if we used an institutionalized daycare, we'd have to pay for those spots over the summer, as it's rare to find a childcare provider who would overlook those 8 weeks.

I've had many conversations with teachers who have a hard time finding care. It's easier at the elementary level, where start times are later. But to see my colleagues with young children rush to drop off, fight traffic and then rush to school is pathetic!

So you can do all the research you want, PP. I know more people in this situation than you do.

It's not easy.

Yeah, because absolutely nobody has to leave for work at 6:30am. Lucky for the rest of us that only teachers have to rush to drop off, fight traffic, and rush to work. And the clear dismissal of research for anecdotal experience is priceless. Why don't you work 12 months a year then those 2 months off in the summer won't cause you so much difficulty.

[Anonymous]

But you are still wrong. Of the teachers who leave the profession in the first five years, childcare is not listed as a reason they leave the profession. It may be the reason your SIL or your friends leave, but it is not the reason most of the 50% of new teachers leave teaching within 5 years.

I'm the poster with the SIL and the poster that you are arguing with is not me. I'm curious as to where you are getting your research data. Is it public? My understanding is that it is statistically significant that women (over men) cite staying at home with children as a reason for dropping out of the workforce. It also is a statistically significant driver, though obviously not the only driver, as to why lifetime earnings for women are lower than men. As teaching position still held primarily by women this distribution should be higher than in other industries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

My SIL was an elementary school teacher. She and many of her co-workers would leave after 5 years but it has nothing to do with raises. The issue is lack of affordable childcare and childcare that fits a teacher's schedule. Teachers are predominantly women and many get married and start having kids within their first five years. Childcare in this area is extremely expensive and the models out there do not provide any options for only 10 months of care. Teachers also don't have the flexibility to work from home or take an afternoon off for a kid's doctor's appointment.

If there were affordable quality childcare options, childcare that would run only 10 months, and more teachers so that they could take more flextime then you would see more teachers staying in the profession past 5 years. Some teachers will still decide to stay home but many would keep working if it wasn't so logistically problematic.

I'm familiar with a lot of research that studies teachers and teacher education as part of my job. While it is true that up to 50% of new teachers leave the field within 5 years, it is roundly concluded that there are many reasons for leaving and the majority of those reasons have to do with working conditions, school governance, and compensation over time (though this last one is not the top reason most leave the field.).

While affordable childcare is an important social issue, it is not listed as a reason teachers leave the profession, so unless you have a recent study that uncovers this new phenomenon, I'm guessing you are just generalizing from your SIL's experience and cannot possible draw the conclusions you do about teacher retention and childcare.

Finding childcare is a pain in the ass. Try a 2-income household with two high school teachers who work 10 months. We are lucky in that we share a nanny who is willing to split her time btw us and our good friends. But we pay her well, which is a financial drain at times. How many nannies would be willing to do morning care - two schools - by arriving at 6:30 in the morning so that two teachers could be at work by 7 am. And that's b/c we have easy commutes! She'd have to arrive earlier if that weren't the case.

And then b/c we have summers off, if we used an institutionalized daycare, we'd have to pay for those spots over the summer, as it's rare to find a childcare provider who would overlook those 8 weeks.

I've had many conversations with teachers who have a hard time finding care. It's easier at the elementary level, where start times are later. But to see my colleagues with young children rush to drop off, fight traffic and then rush to school is pathetic!

So you can do all the research you want, PP. I know more people in this situation than you do.

It's not easy.

Yeah, because absolutely nobody has to leave for work at 6:30am. Lucky for the rest of us that only teachers have to rush to drop off, fight traffic, and rush to work. And the clear dismissal of research for anecdotal experience is priceless. Why don't you work 12 months a year then those 2 months off in the summer won't cause you so much difficulty.

Because - unlike you - I prefer to stay home with my children during those 8 weeks instead of placing them in some camp. We ALL make sacrifice. But what I sacrifice in pay is made up by the time I spend with my kids.

Feel better hearing my side?

probably not, eh?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Finding childcare is a pain in the ass. Try a 2-income household with two high school teachers who work 10 months. We are lucky in that we share a nanny who is willing to split her time btw us and our good friends. But we pay her well, which is a financial drain at times. How many nannies would be willing to do morning care - two schools - by arriving at 6:30 in the morning so that two teachers could be at work by 7 am. And that's b/c we have easy commutes! She'd have to arrive earlier if that weren't the case.

And then b/c we have summers off, if we used an institutionalized daycare, we'd have to pay for those spots over the summer, as it's rare to find a childcare provider who would overlook those 8 weeks.

I've had many conversations with teachers who have a hard time finding care. It's easier at the elementary level, where start times are later. But to see my colleagues with young children rush to drop off, fight traffic and then rush to school is pathetic!

So you can do all the research you want, PP. I know more people in this situation than you do.

It's not easy.

Yeah, because absolutely nobody has to leave for work at 6:30am. Lucky for the rest of us that only teachers have to rush to drop off, fight traffic, and rush to work. And the clear dismissal of research for anecdotal experience is priceless. Why don't you work 12 months a year then those 2 months off in the summer won't cause you so much difficulty.

I'm not the PP you're snarking at, but you totally misread her post. She is talking about finding NANNIES who are willing to arrive at 6:30 am, which is part of the difficulty finding childcare.

Also, there's an obvious connection between (a) salaries and (b) childcare! Good childcare exists, but it's expensive. What your seeing is this: teachers are paid too little to afford "good" childcare.

You sound like a real charmer. Our families should get together for a BBQ!

[Anonymous]

Also, there's an obvious connection between (a) salaries and (b) childcare! Good childcare exists, but it's expensive. What your seeing is this: teachers are paid too little to afford "good" childcare.

Raises are not increasing teacher salaries to a bracket where childcare that costs 30K-40K makes working a financially attractive situation.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised that no one has pointed how private schools attract high quality teachers but pay less than public schools. Teachers are burnt out, and leaving MCPS not because of raises but because of poor working conditions. They have little control over the curriculum, poor performing employees are not let go, they lack basic resources to do their job well, and they are bombarded by useless assessments and data collection that only serve to justify the existence of the school and county administrators. New teachers go into MCPS not because they think its a good place to be but because the salary is higher than privates but they burn out quickly. An additional raise is not going to overcome the poor working conditions for teachers in public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Finding childcare is a pain in the ass. Try a 2-income household with two high school teachers who work 10 months. We are lucky in that we share a nanny who is willing to split her time btw us and our good friends. But we pay her well, which is a financial drain at times. How many nannies would be willing to do morning care - two schools - by arriving at 6:30 in the morning so that two teachers could be at work by 7 am. And that's b/c we have easy commutes! She'd have to arrive earlier if that weren't the case.

And then b/c we have summers off, if we used an institutionalized daycare, we'd have to pay for those spots over the summer, as it's rare to find a childcare provider who would overlook those 8 weeks.

I've had many conversations with teachers who have a hard time finding care. It's easier at the elementary level, where start times are later. But to see my colleagues with young children rush to drop off, fight traffic and then rush to school is pathetic!

So you can do all the research you want, PP. I know more people in this situation than you do.

It's not easy.

Yeah, because absolutely nobody has to leave for work at 6:30am. Lucky for the rest of us that only teachers have to rush to drop off, fight traffic, and rush to work. And the clear dismissal of research for anecdotal experience is priceless. Why don't you work 12 months a year then those 2 months off in the summer won't cause you so much difficulty.

I'm not the PP you're snarking at, but you totally misread her post. She is talking about finding NANNIES who are willing to arrive at 6:30 am, which is part of the difficulty finding childcare.

Also, there's an obvious connection between (a) salaries and (b) childcare! Good childcare exists, but it's expensive. What your seeing is this: teachers are paid too little to afford "good" childcare.

You sound like a real charmer. Our families should get together for a BBQ!
A LOT of people leave for work at 6:30am, myself included. Many nannies do arrive for work around that time. 6:30am is not an ungodly hour for those of us who work truly demanding jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, there's an obvious connection between (a) salaries and (b) childcare! Good childcare exists, but it's expensive. What your seeing is this: teachers are paid too little to afford "good" childcare.

Raises are not increasing teacher salaries to a bracket where childcare that costs 30K-40K makes working a financially attractive situation.

But raises are making it *easier* for teachers to afford childcare, even if they still can't afford Mary Poppins for $40K.