I didn't fully comprehend the cost of eldercare

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread should be posted as a PSA everytime a healthy adult gets a "gift" from their parents for a downpayment.

The argument of "we want to watch you enjoy it now, not after we die" should be immediately followed up by "...and of course, you'll be responsible for paying our end of life care bills should we need it..."

If you believe this, you shouldn't be gifting the money in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this hasn't been stated already -- even if he were to living in a facility, most facilities would require privately arranged and privately paid-for 24 hour care.

You are conflating someone in independent living who finds themselves in need of more care with full nursing care.

If the independent facility will even allow for additional care, then yes, you have to pay for it on top of the monthly facility charge. Not all will allow outside help. If the person is in assisted living, then they might need care augmentation. But if the person truly needs 24/7 care, then they need to be in a nursing home, which is 24/7 care. Though generally it is not very good care no matter how expensive the place is. I do know of people who have augmented care in memory care, but still, it isn't 24/7.

But isn't a nursing home more expensive than having 24/7 care in your own home that you own mortgage-free?

[Anonymous]

My Dad had 24/7 care in his home and it was $30K a month, so $360K not including utilities, home maintenance, groceries.

It's been a while since I've looked but a skilled nursing facility (nursing home not assisted living) is maybe $250K a year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this hasn't been stated already -- even if he were to living in a facility, most facilities would require privately arranged and privately paid-for 24 hour care.

You are conflating someone in independent living who finds themselves in need of more care with full nursing care.

If the independent facility will even allow for additional care, then yes, you have to pay for it on top of the monthly facility charge. Not all will allow outside help. If the person is in assisted living, then they might need care augmentation. But if the person truly needs 24/7 care, then they need to be in a nursing home, which is 24/7 care. Though generally it is not very good care no matter how expensive the place is. I do know of people who have augmented care in memory care, but still, it isn't 24/7.

But isn't a nursing home more expensive than having 24/7 care in your own home that you own mortgage-free?

Nothing is “mortgage free” once you pay off your mortgage insurance and property tax often is more than the original mortgage.

Also at many nursing homes if you run out of $, they keep you.

If u run out of money in your house you go to a Medicaid facility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this hasn't been stated already -- even if he were to living in a facility, most facilities would require privately arranged and privately paid-for 24 hour care.

You are conflating someone in independent living who finds themselves in need of more care with full nursing care.

If the independent facility will even allow for additional care, then yes, you have to pay for it on top of the monthly facility charge. Not all will allow outside help. If the person is in assisted living, then they might need care augmentation. But if the person truly needs 24/7 care, then they need to be in a nursing home, which is 24/7 care. Though generally it is not very good care no matter how expensive the place is. I do know of people who have augmented care in memory care, but still, it isn't 24/7.

But isn't a nursing home more expensive than having 24/7 care in your own home that you own mortgage-free?

Nothing is “mortgage free” once you pay off your mortgage insurance and property tax often is more than the original mortgage.

Also at many nursing homes if you run out of $, they keep you.

If u run out of money in your house you go to a Medicaid facility.

Addressing both PPs.
No, nursing home is not more expensive that at home 24/7 care--which would be considered the highest level of care. At home is costly in itself, and requires a high degree of oversight, even if you're paying for the services that manage the care. And as the second PP said, the household with all its bills and maintenance has to be managed in addition to the eldercare.

If you have very good at home care and have the money to pay for it, it definitely can extend life. But in so many of these cases, the person would be better off with the life not extending to the point of being bedridden and barely aware of what is going on. I have a wealthy neighbor man whose only child lives in another state. He has a 4 person crew (the same 4 people for years) run by a woman. This is her business, and he is her only client. Overnight male who does the heavy lifting and bathing. 7am - 3pm female. Then 3pm-9pm. The 4th person is the relief, fill in. He used to do PT, but the man no longer can do anything. They have kept him alive for years, and it is in their best interest to do so. I know this sounds cold, but he has zero quality of life. I can't imagine he would want this, but who is to stop it.

And PP is right that you are better off going into private pay nursing well before you run out of money, since they analyze your assets to see how long you can pay before they accept you. If they accept you, many will keep you on at the end and accept Medicaid payments if you run out of money.

Presumably, if you have a house and no spouse (this complicates things immensely when money is an issue) you can sell the house to then pay for care. But, at that point it is really hard to manage all this if the person/elderly has refused to move thus far.

All to say that there is nothing easy about any of this--for the elder and the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this thread should be posted as a PSA everytime a healthy adult gets a "gift" from their parents for a downpayment.

The argument of "we want to watch you enjoy it now, not after we die" should be immediately followed up by "...and of course, you'll be responsible for paying our end of life care bills should we need it..."

This is a really important point for people to be aware of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a relative with 24/7 home care and they’re spending north of $350,000/year.

where is all of this money going? Why do we allow the middlemen to skim off so much cash from the actual provider?

The agency ensures there is always someone there, even if somebody calls out or just doesn’t show up (pretty common). It’s somebody you can report suspected errors or even thefts to. They can also find a replacement if the person is not a good fit.

I looked into hiring somebody independently—you can find some apparently great people if you look. But the savings weren’t much if anything, and what if they flaked out? What if they were a bad fit? Then I’d be back at square one, scrolling through profiles.

I sympathize with the perspective that the caregivers are underpaid. Some of them were excellent and I would have been willing to pay them more directly. But I didn’t have it in me to coordinate 24-7 coverage and deal with all the non-excellent providers directly.

[Anonymous]

Let this be a lesson to all of us-the best gift you can give your children is to plan for when you are old and make sure you can afford it.

Our duty as parents are to our children. Not the other way around. putting this kind of responsibility on your children just creates a cycle of no wealth and it will just continue.

Plan for your future. Have it in writing. Be financially responsible and give your kids the gift of living their lives without having to take care of their own kids AND their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this hasn't been stated already -- even if he were to living in a facility, most facilities would require privately arranged and privately paid-for 24 hour care.

You are conflating someone in independent living who finds themselves in need of more care with full nursing care.

If the independent facility will even allow for additional care, then yes, you have to pay for it on top of the monthly facility charge. Not all will allow outside help. If the person is in assisted living, then they might need care augmentation. But if the person truly needs 24/7 care, then they need to be in a nursing home, which is 24/7 care. Though generally it is not very good care no matter how expensive the place is. I do know of people who have augmented care in memory care, but still, it isn't 24/7.

But isn't a nursing home more expensive than having 24/7 care in your own home that you own mortgage-free?

Definitely not. Even at $30/hour x 24 x 365 =262,800.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a relative with 24/7 home care and they’re spending north of $350,000/year.

where is all of this money going? Why do we allow the middlemen to skim off so much cash from the actual provider?

Because they have overhead? One person cannot work every single day 24 hours a day without a break or sleep. You need 3-5 people for this, and you have to manage them plus all of the house issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why my plan is to kill myself if I get in this situation. I’d rather leave my money to my kids than burn through it all myself.

A lot of people think this, but the truth is by the time you’re anywhere near needing 24/7 care, you’re well past the point where you could make and execute that decision. Just functionally in most cases, ethics aside.

My dad wrote in his will that he wants all life-saving measures taken to keep him alive. No withholding anything regardless of the circumstances. I just don’t understand this mindset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why my plan is to kill myself if I get in this situation. I’d rather leave my money to my kids than burn through it all myself.

A lot of people think this, but the truth is by the time you’re anywhere near needing 24/7 care, you’re well past the point where you could make and execute that decision. Just functionally in most cases, ethics aside.

My dad wrote in his will that he wants all life-saving measures taken to keep him alive. No withholding anything regardless of the circumstances. I just don’t understand this mindset.

Some people are afraid to die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this hasn't been stated already -- even if he were to living in a facility, most facilities would require privately arranged and privately paid-for 24 hour care.

You are conflating someone in independent living who finds themselves in need of more care with full nursing care.

If the independent facility will even allow for additional care, then yes, you have to pay for it on top of the monthly facility charge. Not all will allow outside help. If the person is in assisted living, then they might need care augmentation. But if the person truly needs 24/7 care, then they need to be in a nursing home, which is 24/7 care. Though generally it is not very good care no matter how expensive the place is. I do know of people who have augmented care in memory care, but still, it isn't 24/7.

But isn't a nursing home more expensive than having 24/7 care in your own home that you own mortgage-free?

Nothing is “mortgage free” once you pay off your mortgage insurance and property tax often is more than the original mortgage.

Also at many nursing homes if you run out of $, they keep you.

If u run out of money in your house you go to a Medicaid facility.

OP here. This is good to know, about them keeping you. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this hasn't been stated already -- even if he were to living in a facility, most facilities would require privately arranged and privately paid-for 24 hour care.

You are conflating someone in independent living who finds themselves in need of more care with full nursing care.

If the independent facility will even allow for additional care, then yes, you have to pay for it on top of the monthly facility charge. Not all will allow outside help. If the person is in assisted living, then they might need care augmentation. But if the person truly needs 24/7 care, then they need to be in a nursing home, which is 24/7 care. Though generally it is not very good care no matter how expensive the place is. I do know of people who have augmented care in memory care, but still, it isn't 24/7.

But isn't a nursing home more expensive than having 24/7 care in your own home that you own mortgage-free?

Nothing is “mortgage free” once you pay off your mortgage insurance and property tax often is more than the original mortgage.

Also at many nursing homes if you run out of $, they keep you.

If u run out of money in your house you go to a Medicaid facility.

OP here. This is good to know, about them keeping you. Thanks.

Pp means they will often accept Medicaid money for long term residents who run out of money. They still aren’t keeping you for free

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why my plan is to kill myself if I get in this situation. I’d rather leave my money to my kids than burn through it all myself.

A lot of people think this, but the truth is by the time you’re anywhere near needing 24/7 care, you’re well past the point where you could make and execute that decision. Just functionally in most cases, ethics aside.

My dad wrote in his will that he wants all life-saving measures taken to keep him alive. No withholding anything regardless of the circumstances. I just don’t understand this mindset.

Some people are afraid to die.

Agreed. Plus, as with my dad, some are convinced they are going to get better and get their life back. So do everything to help them survive. But then they need to have the money and people to do the work--not expect the kids to do it.