I didn't fully comprehend the cost of eldercare

[Anonymous]

For every single poster here rallying about the cost of end of life care:

The next time our government looks at this, don't freak out about "death panels." We spend more on end of life care, that keeps people technically alive, but certainly not living, than any other country. We should be spending more on young people and poor people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seriously if the math you are doing is the base rate for one person times the hours in the day, you’re in lala land. The reason agencies take a huge cut over their aides take home pay is because it costs a lot, not because they’re raking in profit. When you find/poach good people, you can pay them more to convince them to stay, but it doesn’t stop them from getting sick or having a new grandbaby across the country or anything else. It doesn’t make overtime cheaper and good luck staffing 24/7 without it. Etc etc.

All this. My MiL wanted to do this - hire a great caregiver out from the agency - until I reminded her that sh*t happens and she will not have backup.

Everything sounds expensive because we, as a country, do not place value on caregiving unlike many other developed countries.

Our family was very lucky as our mom was in a great memory care unit in a nonprofit CCRC covered by Medicaid until she passed away. My ILs may have enough money to cover their care/housing expenses though probably not much left for inheritance, if anything. We are fine and not looking for that, but I sense that SiL/BiL do not realize that and will not be happy when they learn that there is little money left for them. If there is any, I imagine that they will ask DH for his portion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry.
You'll here half the population saying "shouldn't an old person be able to just stay in their own home" vs. the other half that will say "this is how you move the elderly out and make homes available for new generations."

Well if you don't have the funds for full time 24/7 care (and most don't---that's $25-30/hr+ or $600+ per day), then a facility is the best place. If you want to "just stay in your own home" you need to plan financially for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't have advice here but it's something I dread. My parents live 600 miles away and I am an only child. They are healthy but rabidly insist they will stay in their home. They can afford it, but seem to forget the logistics and engagement required on behalf of family to make this actually work, which I can not do from several states away. It is a really crappy position to put adult kids in to be inflexible about aging realities.

How much is it?

So let them know you simply cannot manage it. Encourage them to enter a CCRC if they are still healthy enough to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why my plan is to kill myself if I get in this situation. I’d rather leave my money to my kids than burn through it all myself.

Yeah I mean there ia a selfish side of me that says "you have two grandkids going to college in the new few years" lol. But I mean it is his money so it is what it is.

Part of me just worries what happens if he runs out. Then what do we do. I am going in August so going to try to talk then, just hard. Especially since he can't actually hear me ...

So If he doesn't have enough then he needs to understand that now and be moved to a facility. It's much more affordable to be in a facility where caregivers are shared and you don't have to worry about someone not showing up (what do you do then from 600miles away)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah what do families do when the money runs out?

The next generation goes into debt?

You don't let your parents stay at home where the costs are $20K/month+ versus $10K/month in a facility. You move them to the facility for so many reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:May I also share real numbers? My mom passed away at 96, 7 years ago, in NYC, for context, so high cost of living area and some time ago. She started in independent/assisted living in a 1-bedroom apt. And needed to add 7/24 care. At that time, those costs equaled $25,000 a month or $300,000 a year.

A CCRC would have been preferable perhaps. Remaining in a suburban house or apartment was not what she wanted to do once she no longer could drive. Although uber could have helped.

CCRC when still healthy is the best approach and moving to a more affordable area if needed.

My parents moved in mid70s to a CCRC. We had to pay the entry fee for them to be eligible. Sure, we might be overpaying, but we know they will never pay exhorbinant monthly fees in the future. Costs remain the same no matter if 1 or both are in advanced care or both in Ind Living. Only added costs will be the 2 extra meals per day per person. Right now they pay $7K/month for a 2 bed/2 bath Ind living. Whereas nursing care is $14K/month. If they ever need that (even for one of them) they still pay $7K. That's what the entry fee is covering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah what do families do when the money runs out?

The next generation goes into debt?

The elderly person goes on Medicaid and into a Medicaid bed in a nursing home.

I really doubt this system will continue as is, with the cuts from current administration. Only a portion of homes are Medicaid beds anyway.
Nursing homes are also exorbitant. The whole system is ridiculous - so very expensive, with little quality of life.

Right, so they move in with family i guess. Or they dont get the proper care they need. I dont honestly know what we will do, hence needing to have a convo with him. I assume he thinks he wont live long but who knows.

But while I love my dad, I dont think I can sacrafice my kids college or needs to pour all my money to my dad. At least he made it to 90 before he needed any care. I

Does LTC insurance help with this? I keep hearing such mixed reviews.

LTC helps, but it depends what you purchased. My parents each have a plan they will get $250/day for up to 4 years. But it depends if you plan is solvent when you need it (many go under)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah what do families do when the money runs out?

The next generation goes into debt?

The elderly person goes on Medicaid and into a Medicaid bed in a nursing home.

I really doubt this system will continue as is, with the cuts from current administration. Only a portion of homes are Medicaid beds anyway.
Nursing homes are also exorbitant. The whole system is ridiculous - so very expensive, with little quality of life.

Right, so they move in with family i guess. Or they dont get the proper care they need. I dont honestly know what we will do, hence needing to have a convo with him. I assume he thinks he wont live long but who knows.

But while I love my dad, I dont think I can sacrafice my kids college or needs to pour all my money to my dad. At least he made it to 90 before he needed any care. I

Does LTC insurance help with this? I keep hearing such mixed reviews.

Be sure to share this message with your kids so they know to disregard your wishes when you get old.

He doesn't get his wishes to stay at home if he cannot provide funding for it. And that means for another 5-7 years, in case he lives that long. At some point you have to step in and manage finances along with the wishes. But if he's worth $5M, then sure, he can stay at home for 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:None of our parents needed this kind of care for long.

My mom died at 70 after a short illness.

My father in law died at 75 after a fall and a long illness where he was at home.

My father died in hospice. He did end up in assisted living but it was largely paid for with veterans benefits.

My mother in law lived on her own on an apartment until she was 95 and had a stroke. She died within a week at a hospital.

That's because no one actually cared for old people like this before. You just let them live in their homes until they fell sick and died on their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry.
You'll here half the population saying "shouldn't an old person be able to just stay in their own home" vs. the other half that will say "this is how you move the elderly out and make homes available for new generations."

Well if you don't have the funds for full time 24/7 care (and most don't---that's $25-30/hr+ or $600+ per day), then a facility is the best place. If you want to "just stay in your own home" you need to plan financially for that.

You don't have to convince me. Just the messenger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:None of our parents needed this kind of care for long.

My mom died at 70 after a short illness.

My father in law died at 75 after a fall and a long illness where he was at home.

My father died in hospice. He did end up in assisted living but it was largely paid for with veterans benefits.

My mother in law lived on her own on an apartment until she was 95 and had a stroke. She died within a week at a hospital.

That's because no one actually cared for old people like this before. You just let them live in their homes until they fell sick and died on their own.

+1. If a person is demented and living on their own, they will die pretty fast. The danger is that they will set fire to their home by accident in the process.

[Anonymous]

Here are some more numbers. My mother broke her hip and already had severe dementia. The hip made 24/7 care essential. They tried independent living with help and that lasted about three months--there was no one qualified to do the care, honestly, at any price. They moved to a "nice" assisted living in Montgomery County. We realized after the fact that "nice" on the surface means: owned by private equity, the actual care is terrible. Anyway, the cost for a two-bedroom apartment with 24/7 care (my dad lived in the other room) was $18,000 per month. That works out to about $216,000 per year. In the end she lived about three years, so my dad was drained about $600K. That was basically funded by the sale of their home. He now lives in assisted living in upstate NY, at a non-profit. It costs about $8,000 per month, which, between his pension and SS, isn't a killer. In any event, it's brutally expensive and not pleasant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello from hell in SC! I’m reporting that my 80 year old mother with dementia in a memory care facility is currently costing 36k a month due to the need for 24/7 private aids due to lots of falls!

She was frugal her whole life and saved a nest egg as a teacher. A year at Clemson for one of our kids is being spent a month for her crappy care with uneducated aides who ignore her half of the time unless I argue with their supervisor.

My advice is to make sure whatever facility you place your parents in at the beginning of this journey is also qualified to accept Medicaid and has a good reputation as a Medicaid facility so that one day you can transition to that when the money runs out.

We will be moving her to a facility that requests a year of private pay before they will accept Medicaid and that is what we will need to do because she may live a lot longer, but her money is being rapidly spent down for her care

Why are you spending your college savings on this if your mother has savings? Shouldn’t you be spending down her funds that she saved for this?

I think PP is merely pointing out what an equivalent cost would be to show the magnitude, not that she is spending her kids’ college savings on her mother’s care.

Yes, I realized that that was a possibility, but the thing is, that money was saved for her mom’s care when she became old. By comparing it to a year in college, she’s implying the idea that the money would have a better use than the care of her mom, ie: paying for the son’s college tuition. Her mom saved that money- that money is meant for exactly what she’s using it for.

My partner and I are saving and investing so that we will be able to pay for our care one day. We both have some longevity genes, so we want to have enough down the road to pay for what we need as we age. We do not want to be a financial burden to our children.

Our parents did this for us. Both sets had saved enough that they never needed money from their children. That was a huge gift to us. There wasn’t a lot left when they died, but we were happy that they were always comfortable as they aged and never needed to worry about money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hello from hell in SC! I’m reporting that my 80 year old mother with dementia in a memory care facility is currently costing 36k a month due to the need for 24/7 private aids due to lots of falls!

She was frugal her whole life and saved a nest egg as a teacher. A year at Clemson for one of our kids is being spent a month for her crappy care with uneducated aides who ignore her half of the time unless I argue with their supervisor.

My advice is to make sure whatever facility you place your parents in at the beginning of this journey is also qualified to accept Medicaid and has a good reputation as a Medicaid facility so that one day you can transition to that when the money runs out.

We will be moving her to a facility that requests a year of private pay before they will accept Medicaid and that is what we will need to do because she may live a lot longer, but her money is being rapidly spent down for her care

Why are you spending your college savings on this if your mother has savings? Shouldn’t you be spending down her funds that she saved for this?

I think PP is merely pointing out what an equivalent cost would be to show the magnitude, not that she is spending her kids’ college savings on her mother’s care.

Yes, I realized that that was a possibility, but the thing is, that money was saved for her mom’s care when she became old. By comparing it to a year in college, she’s implying the idea that the money would have a better use than the care of her mom, ie: paying for the son’s college tuition. Her mom saved that money- that money is meant for exactly what she’s using it for.

My partner and I are saving and investing so that we will be able to pay for our care one day. We both have some longevity genes, so we want to have enough down the road to pay for what we need as we age. We do not want to be a financial burden to our children.

Our parents did this for us. Both sets had saved enough that they never needed money from their children. That was a huge gift to us. There wasn’t a lot left when they died, but we were happy that they were always comfortable as they aged and never needed to worry about money.

This 1000%

It's your job to save enough for LTC/living in a facility or with 24/7 care for years.
My one side of family everyone lives to 95-100+. Most without major care needed until last 3-4 years. Otherside lived to almost 90, but they were morbidly obese and had major health issues, yet still lived that long. So I'm planning as if I will live to 95+.

I've also seen family need 6-7+ years in memory care and 4+ years in nursing care (and patient still lucid and mentally 95% there until last few months). So we are planning accordingly and assuming we might need 3-5+ years of care.