If doing research in high school is unfair and puts poorer students at a disadvantage, what extracurriculars are fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this one?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/14-year-old-scientist-heman-bekele-on-his-quest-to-fight-skin-cancer-with-soap
Fair or unfair? Rich or poor?

Connected. The mentor is: Deborah Isabelle she has an MS in Material Science.

It's not like that kid read into latest cancer fighting drugs, then read about skin cancer, then experimented between the how effective soap is to the skin cancer. That requires patients that have skin cancer and willing to have a 13 year old without a HS degree experiment on them.

This is exactly the fake HS research that the thread is complaining about.

Working with a mentor makes it “fake”?

Then almost all research is “fake”.

You have a very narrow, rigid view of what “research” is that would preclude many people working in research.

They don’t have a narrow or rigid view. They’re just trying to further dumb down the entire population. If I’m too dumb to be ahead, no one else should be ahead. Pretty standard liberal ideology.

Stupid MAGA narrative that has no basis in reality.

MAGAs dumb us down plenty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, please kindly use condoms if you don’t want to raise your kids properly. I know you’re gonna complain you can’t afford condoms. But obviously you can afford $500 shinny shoes and $300 coffee every month.

Go F yourself

I wish you fk’ed yourself so you didn’t bring innocent kids that you didn’t deserve into this world.

My kids are fine.

You’re an a-hole. GFY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, please kindly use condoms if you don’t want to raise your kids properly. I know you’re gonna complain you can’t afford condoms. But obviously you can afford $500 shinny shoes and $300 coffee every month.

Go F yourself

I wish you fk’ed yourself so you didn’t bring innocent kids that you didn’t deserve into this world.

My kids are fine.

You’re an a-hole. GFY.

I doubt it. Wish I met you before to spare you a couple of quarters for condoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm thinking about local programs that I know of that are equitable in their selection, rigorous, and prestigious for high school research positions. The GMU summer one (forget the name), JHU APL, or even small things at MD or Georgetown. Yes, there are some remote opportunities but not all and they're not preferred. So if a poor kid gets selected, HOW of they get there? Their car? Mom's car? Dad's car? Any car? No? Also are they paid? So, when can they go make money to pay for college, or help with rent? Yeah, I don't think they meant dumber. I think they were talking about real systemic disadvantages.

But you realize that transportation hurdles affects EVERYTHING outside of public school buses, right? So if that's your standard, then ANY activity outside of school is unfair.

If you're going to use an extreme bar to assess criteria in your given topic, that's not really feasible. You cannot level the playing field for 100% of humans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this one?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/14-year-old-scientist-heman-bekele-on-his-quest-to-fight-skin-cancer-with-soap
Fair or unfair? Rich or poor?

Connected. The mentor is: Deborah Isabelle she has an MS in Material Science.

It's not like that kid read into latest cancer fighting drugs, then read about skin cancer, then experimented between the how effective soap is to the skin cancer. That requires patients that have skin cancer and willing to have a 13 year old without a HS degree experiment on them.

This is exactly the fake HS research that the thread is complaining about.

Working with a mentor makes it “fake”?

Then almost all research is “fake”.

You have a very narrow, rigid view of what “research” is that would preclude many people working in research.

I said "Connected" - how did they get the mentors as a HS student?

The kid won a science competition.

So is your gripe on how students are connected with mentors?

Yes and half the people replying on the thread. Connected - this isn't open to all kids. The Connected mentor makes a huge difference in the final outcome and execution. Independent HS researchers can't compete against Adult full-time pros. You either have competitions for those with mentors and those without or don't allow the deck to stack towards mentored projects.

Not sure why this is controversial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People, please kindly use condoms if you don’t want to raise your kids properly. I know you’re gonna complain you can’t afford condoms. But obviously you can afford $500 shinny shoes and $300 coffee every month.

Go F yourself

I wish you fk’ed yourself so you didn’t bring innocent kids that you didn’t deserve into this world.

My kids are fine.

You’re an a-hole. GFY.

I doubt it. Wish I met you before to spare you a couple of quarters for condoms.

We played the admissions game and they had many unfair advantages. They were legacy, did research in HS, and are now attending T10 & T25.

You are still a f-ing a-hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm thinking about local programs that I know of that are equitable in their selection, rigorous, and prestigious for high school research positions. The GMU summer one (forget the name), JHU APL, or even small things at MD or Georgetown. Yes, there are some remote opportunities but not all and they're not preferred. So if a poor kid gets selected, HOW of they get there? Their car? Mom's car? Dad's car? Any car? No? Also are they paid? So, when can they go make money to pay for college, or help with rent? Yeah, I don't think they meant dumber. I think they were talking about real systemic disadvantages.

But you realize that transportation hurdles affects EVERYTHING outside of public school buses, right? So if that's your standard, then ANY activity outside of school is unfair.

If you're going to use an extreme bar to assess criteria in your given topic, that's not really feasible. You cannot level the playing field for 100% of humans.

Of course you cannot level the playing field 100% - agreed. This is why giving consdering menial jobs, taking care of family members (that require very little transportation) should not be considered lesser than the internships and research positions, that in some cases are hard earned by the students alone, but often are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this one?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/14-year-old-scientist-heman-bekele-on-his-quest-to-fight-skin-cancer-with-soap
Fair or unfair? Rich or poor?

Connected. The mentor is: Deborah Isabelle she has an MS in Material Science.

It's not like that kid read into latest cancer fighting drugs, then read about skin cancer, then experimented between the how effective soap is to the skin cancer. That requires patients that have skin cancer and willing to have a 13 year old without a HS degree experiment on them.

This is exactly the fake HS research that the thread is complaining about.

Working with a mentor makes it “fake”?

Then almost all research is “fake”.

You have a very narrow, rigid view of what “research” is that would preclude many people working in research.

I said "Connected" - how did they get the mentors as a HS student?

The kid won a science competition.

So is your gripe on how students are connected with mentors?

Yes and half the people replying on the thread. Connected - this isn't open to all kids. The Connected mentor makes a huge difference in the final outcome and execution. Independent HS researchers can't compete against Adult full-time pros. You either have competitions for those with mentors and those without or don't allow the deck to stack towards mentored projects.

Not sure why this is controversial.

The kid won the competition on their own - the prize was the mentor.

While I agree that there is a lot that is unfair in college admissions I don’t agree that this research is “fake”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I'm thinking about local programs that I know of that are equitable in their selection, rigorous, and prestigious for high school research positions. The GMU summer one (forget the name), JHU APL, or even small things at MD or Georgetown. Yes, there are some remote opportunities but not all and they're not preferred. So if a poor kid gets selected, HOW of they get there? Their car? Mom's car? Dad's car? Any car? No? Also are they paid? So, when can they go make money to pay for college, or help with rent? Yeah, I don't think they meant dumber. I think they were talking about real systemic disadvantages.

But you realize that transportation hurdles affects EVERYTHING outside of public school buses, right? So if that's your standard, then ANY activity outside of school is unfair.

If you're going to use an extreme bar to assess criteria in your given topic, that's not really feasible. You cannot level the playing field for 100% of humans.

Of course you cannot level the playing field 100% - agreed. This is why giving consdering menial jobs, taking care of family members (that require very little transportation) should not be considered lesser than the internships and research positions, that in some cases are hard earned by the students alone, but often are not.

I don’t think they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this one?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/14-year-old-scientist-heman-bekele-on-his-quest-to-fight-skin-cancer-with-soap
Fair or unfair? Rich or poor?

Connected. The mentor is: Deborah Isabelle she has an MS in Material Science.

It's not like that kid read into latest cancer fighting drugs, then read about skin cancer, then experimented between the how effective soap is to the skin cancer. That requires patients that have skin cancer and willing to have a 13 year old without a HS degree experiment on them.

This is exactly the fake HS research that the thread is complaining about.

Working with a mentor makes it “fake”?

Then almost all research is “fake”.

You have a very narrow, rigid view of what “research” is that would preclude many people working in research.

They don’t have a narrow or rigid view. They’re just trying to further dumb down the entire population. If I’m too dumb to be ahead, no one else should be ahead. Pretty standard liberal ideology.

Stupid MAGA narrative that has no basis in reality.

MAGAs dumb us down plenty.

GPA inflation and watering down SAT didn't happen in reality? Accusing math being racist didn’t happen? TJ reform trying to make it a lottery process didn’t happen? Which universe are you coming from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this one?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/14-year-old-scientist-heman-bekele-on-his-quest-to-fight-skin-cancer-with-soap
Fair or unfair? Rich or poor?

Connected. The mentor is: Deborah Isabelle she has an MS in Material Science.

It's not like that kid read into latest cancer fighting drugs, then read about skin cancer, then experimented between the how effective soap is to the skin cancer. That requires patients that have skin cancer and willing to have a 13 year old without a HS degree experiment on them.

This is exactly the fake HS research that the thread is complaining about.

Working with a mentor makes it “fake”?

Then almost all research is “fake”.

You have a very narrow, rigid view of what “research” is that would preclude many people working in research.

I said "Connected" - how did they get the mentors as a HS student?

The kid won a science competition.

So is your gripe on how students are connected with mentors?

Yes and half the people replying on the thread. Connected - this isn't open to all kids. The Connected mentor makes a huge difference in the final outcome and execution. Independent HS researchers can't compete against Adult full-time pros. You either have competitions for those with mentors and those without or don't allow the deck to stack towards mentored projects.

Not sure why this is controversial.

I disagree. I know a kid who got a paid summer internship for two years through a club at school. The posting was only for members of the club. I bet it was a huge factor in admission results. Someone, not the kid, in the club was connected. How can you level the playing field in this case? You can’t. Life is unfair.

[Anonymous]

NASA has a Citizens Science program. My kid did it and found a new planet. Basically, you are going through data. But it's perfectly accessible to everyone. The Rockville Science Center supports a bunch of engineering teams in rocketry, robotics, drones, and so on. All accessible for engineering nerds. I'm sure other communities have similar.

I'm pretty confident every student can find things to do in the fields they're passionate about that don't cost a lot. Sure, you can go for squash or sailing or golf at the Club if you want to. A handful of schools do need squash players. But there are a million other things a normal middle class student can do to pursue their interests that don't cost much.

Colleges see right through the expensive, cultivated, and pay to play ECs. Colleges that need the money like these students very much. But at selective colleges, it gets an eye roll unless you have a prominent parent.

[Anonymous]

Most of the world does not care about extracurriculars. if you are winning academic olympiads, that's one thing but your passionate interest in the migration patterns of mosquitoes in suburban environments, followed up by research and a published paper in some foreign journal nobody has ever heard of is generally meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about this one?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/14-year-old-scientist-heman-bekele-on-his-quest-to-fight-skin-cancer-with-soap
Fair or unfair? Rich or poor?

Connected. The mentor is: Deborah Isabelle she has an MS in Material Science.

It's not like that kid read into latest cancer fighting drugs, then read about skin cancer, then experimented between the how effective soap is to the skin cancer. That requires patients that have skin cancer and willing to have a 13 year old without a HS degree experiment on them.

This is exactly the fake HS research that the thread is complaining about.

Working with a mentor makes it “fake”?

Then almost all research is “fake”.

You have a very narrow, rigid view of what “research” is that would preclude many people working in research.

They don’t have a narrow or rigid view. They’re just trying to further dumb down the entire population. If I’m too dumb to be ahead, no one else should be ahead. Pretty standard liberal ideology.

Stupid MAGA narrative that has no basis in reality.

MAGAs dumb us down plenty.

GPA inflation and watering down SAT didn't happen in reality? Accusing math being racist didn’t happen? TJ reform trying to make it a lottery process didn’t happen? Which universe are you coming from?

No one is trying to “dumb down the entire population”, FFS.

GPA/SAT inflation and the AP arms race began decades ago and was driven from above by rich parents wanting their kids to get into top schools.

No kid is entitled to TJ; it’s a public school resource that should be accessible to all bright STEM kids in the area, not just the kids from the rich MSs who could afford to play the admissions game.

The only people talking about “math being racist” are the racist RWNJs distorting math reform — which is fundamentally all about having more kids take more math.

[Anonymous]

I hope the kids truly enjoy the process.