If doing research in high school is unfair and puts poorer students at a disadvantage, what extracurriculars are fair?

[Anonymous]

I saw this Reddit comment about research in high school (https://old.reddit.com/r/AskProfessors/comments/1tg9z5l/high_schooler_interning_at_a_toptier_research/omfaesb/):

“Sigh. High school students shouldn't be doing this.

Maybe just enjoy what's left of your childhood?

And don't participate in things that pad your college applications in a way that's totally unfair to other students who aren't connected to/don't live near/can't afford/don't know about intern opportunities at research universities.
But really this is on the professor who's supporting this nonsense.”

So if students shouldn’t be doing this, what extracurriculars should they do? Even things like sports or robotics favor the privilege

[Anonymous]

It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

[Anonymous]

My high schooler applied and was accepted for a selective, paid, Smithsonian internship. It's part of a short list of high school internships that are entirely legit: not pay to play, rigorously structured to avoid nepotism, and not fraudulent, since the work is really being done. The application process was like a mini college app: essays, resume, letters of recs.

One of her friends is going to work in her parents' research lab at a well-known university.

I think the key differentiator is whether an internship is paid, because if the organization is willing to pay actual money to minors, then they're going to do their darndest to make sure they get the best and brightest.

There are many pay-to-play companies that match high schoolers with labs and research papers. Usually those can be identified by tier 1 admission officers who are aware of these things. But nepotism is harder to suss out, especially if the last name isn't the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My high schooler applied and was accepted for a selective, paid, Smithsonian internship. It's part of a short list of high school internships that are entirely legit: not pay to play, rigorously structured to avoid nepotism, and not fraudulent, since the work is really being done. The application process was like a mini college app: essays, resume, letters of recs.

One of her friends is going to work in her parents' research lab at a well-known university.

I think the key differentiator is whether an internship is paid, because if the organization is willing to pay actual money to minors, then they're going to do their darndest to make sure they get the best and brightest.

There are many pay-to-play companies that match high schoolers with labs and research papers. Usually those can be identified by tier 1 admission officers who are aware of these things. But nepotism is harder to suss out, especially if the last name isn't the same.

Me again. I disagree with OP that the internship my kid got was through any particular privilege. Maybe just the privilege of being Kid #2 in the family! We were not aware of such opportunities for Kid #1, but by dint of talking to other parents over the years, we finally realized there were internships, and then looked on the internet, and found one that matched DC2's areas of interest.

[Anonymous]

Squash, rowing, fencing, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

Actually it’s more than that. They would further push for sports that they pour a ton of money on and that even middle class families couldn’t afford, and call it fair.

[Anonymous]

Why are poorer students at disadvantage for research? Do you mean dumber students or are you just witch hunting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

Unless you can prove the research is legit, it's just another BS entry on a high school resume. Sorry. Adcoms are increasingly unimpressed. Have your kid try out for bonsai club instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

Unless you can prove the research is legit, it's just another BS entry on a high school resume. Sorry. Adcoms are increasingly unimpressed. Have your kid try out for bonsai club instead.

I approve it to you? Why? AOs will determine whether it’s BS.
The reason you were witch hunting is because you accused someone of wrongdoing but refused to provide proofs.
Of course, you’re probably too dumb to understand this logic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

Unless you can prove the research is legit, it's just another BS entry on a high school resume. Sorry. Adcoms are increasingly unimpressed. Have your kid try out for bonsai club instead.

I approve it to you? Why? AOs will determine whether it’s BS.
The reason you were witch hunting is because you accused someone of wrongdoing but refused to provide proofs.
Of course, you’re probably too dumb to understand this logic.

I'm not witch hunting, I'm stating a fact as someone who has been involved in the admissions process for years. The days when published research or a research internship were a golden ticket to the ivy+ are behind us. Like I said, it's like nonprofits - impressive if done right, but invites extra scrutiny.

[Anonymous]

Apparently someone just learned the phrase “witch hunting” and is trying to use it as many times in one day as they can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

Unless you can prove the research is legit, it's just another BS entry on a high school resume. Sorry. Adcoms are increasingly unimpressed. Have your kid try out for bonsai club instead.

I approve it to you? Why? AOs will determine whether it’s BS.
The reason you were witch hunting is because you accused someone of wrongdoing but refused to provide proofs.
Of course, you’re probably too dumb to understand this logic.

I'm not witch hunting, I'm stating a fact as someone who has been involved in the admissions process for years. The days when published research or a research internship were a golden ticket to the ivy+ are behind us. Like I said, it's like nonprofits - impressive if done right, but invites extra scrutiny.

Again, what proofs do you have for the “fact” you’re stating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not fairness that's the main issue, it's pay to play, nepotism or outright fraud. Rather than student work and merit. It's the same thing with nonprofits. Easily faked or carried out by parents.

High school research is basically an admissions smell. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is off, but you want to check extra carefully.

Unless you can prove it, it’s just witch hunting.
Of course, you’d like to dumb down everything after you’ve dumbed down SATs and GPAs so kids are not differentiable by any objective measures.

Virtually all HS ‘research’ is garbage and AdComs know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw this Reddit comment about research in high school (https://old.reddit.com/r/AskProfessors/comments/1tg9z5l/high_schooler_interning_at_a_toptier_research/omfaesb/):

“Sigh. High school students shouldn't be doing this.

Maybe just enjoy what's left of your childhood?

And don't participate in things that pad your college applications in a way that's totally unfair to other students who aren't connected to/don't live near/can't afford/don't know about intern opportunities at research universities.
But really this is on the professor who's supporting this nonsense.”

So if students shouldn’t be doing this, what extracurriculars should they do? Even things like sports or robotics favor the privilege

It's reddit - ignore and proceed with your life.