If doing research in high school is unfair and puts poorer students at a disadvantage, what extracurriculars are fair?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

I’d say sports is the most money-driven EC by far.

Yes. I don't think a lot of low-income kids are really getting recruited to the sailing team or the lacrosse team. Ballet, piano, chess and on and on and on. It costs money and it's big business.

[Anonymous]

College admission should be lottery-based after meeting minimum quals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College admission should be lottery-based after meeting minimum quals.

But that's not fair either. If a college is going to have a sailing team and they want to compete in sailing and win then they're going to have to go out there and recruit the best sailors. Winnie regatta is not a lottery proposition. You actually have to be skilled enough to win it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

How does writing cost money? hiring instructor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admission should be lottery-based after meeting minimum quals.

But that's not fair either. If a college is going to have a sailing team and they want to compete in sailing and win then they're going to have to go out there and recruit the best sailors. Winnie regatta is not a lottery proposition. You actually have to be skilled enough to win it.

Meant winning a regatta. Same goes for other talents and skills. The most accomplished person is not determined by lottery even if money helps them become the most accomplished. It's a very tough problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

How does writing cost money? hiring instructor?

Around me, kids get sent off to very very expensive arts camps in the summer to learn, writing and all kinds of other things.

[Anonymous]

OP, DD is in the process of getting involved in a volunteer opportunity that closely aligns with her future goals. What she needed to get there was the internet, and some persistence when she was told no (or found out that the activity would be performative elsewhere). What she ultimately found requires a ton of commitment. She will be working with an underserved community, and any member of the community could do the same if they are so inclined, so as level as a playing field is going to get (which is not to say there won't be children who cannot commit to that amount of time/effort).

She could probably have gotten away with working with her dad, and potentially developed a project that is adjacent to her area of interest, but that was not something she wanted. Instead, she is trying to get DH to take on someone she knows who has direct interest in the field, and the chops to get meaningful work done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

How does writing cost money? hiring instructor?

Around me, kids get sent off to very very expensive arts camps in the summer to learn, writing and all kinds of other things.

Training/Tutoring can help, but like Writing, Sports, Math, etc. these need talent.
Well, I guess for college admission, you don't need to be at top. Like non-profit, once you get in, who cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are poorer students at disadvantage for research? Do you mean dumber students or are you just witch hunting?

poorer students don't have the connections to find these positions. Life isn't fair. A kid whose parents are both college educated has a huge advantage over others. Those whose parents both have advanced degrees has even more advantages. My kid has a friend who just graduated college and going onto a MS program then PHD and beyond. No surprise with both parents having PHDS and post docs from top universities....the kid grew up around that and was exposed to concepts of advanced education and the doors it opens and job opportunities. A kid whose parents only have a HS degree has no clue about the same things

You need to provide proofs for this assumption that doing research requires connections. DCUM postings are not proofs.

It requires the knowledge that research exists, that it’s beneficial for college admissions, and how to identify opportunities.

Research doesn’t “require” connections, but they sure help a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

How does writing cost money? hiring instructor?

Around me, kids get sent off to very very expensive arts camps in the summer to learn, writing and all kinds of other things.

Training/Tutoring can help, but like Writing, Sports, Math, etc. these need talent.
Well, I guess for college admission, you don't need to be at top. Like non-profit, once you get in, who cares.

What are you talking about? If you're trying to use your extracurriculars to help you gain admission to college, the students that invest in their natural talent to get to improve to get to the top can get recruited or get admitted to a more competitive college. Those that can't or don't invest in honing their talents, won't be able to use talent in the same way.

People with natural talent require a lot of dedication and practice and time to develop it. That goes for writing or hitting a baseball and everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

How does writing cost money? hiring instructor?

Around me, kids get sent off to very very expensive arts camps in the summer to learn, writing and all kinds of other things.

Training/Tutoring can help, but like Writing, Sports, Math, etc. these need talent.
Well, I guess for college admission, you don't need to be at top. Like non-profit, once you get in, who cares.

What are you talking about? If you're trying to use your extracurriculars to help you gain admission to college, the students that invest in their natural talent to get to improve to get to the top can get recruited or get admitted to a more competitive college. Those that can't or don't invest in honing their talents, won't be able to use talent in the same way.

People with natural talent require a lot of dedication and practice and time to develop it. That goes for writing or hitting a baseball and everything else.

Jane Austen’s family didn’t need to spend any money for her to hone her talent for writing. She just…wrote.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how colleges claim to care about equity (ie scrape SAT) and then love published student research.

Most high schoolers who did research I know about have academic center physician parents, or in a minority of cases, donors to academic medical centers or parents that work at a national lab. High schoolers are not getting research gigs unconnected when even they’re competitive for college students.

They don't love published student research because they realize that just like the 'non-profit' it is typically a scam.

They actually do. Try to cope harder.

DP: Used to work as a counselor and both ‘research’ and ‘non-profit’ have become ECs which are highly scrutinized and generally discounted. If genuine with supportable results they can be excellent but they are mostly generic and can actually be detrimental if they appear to be done for admissions purposes.

Right now kids with deep and interesting ECs are getting the best results. Kids don’t have to be real ‘pointy’ but did they do something that they could have a deep and interesting conversation on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College admission should be lottery-based after meeting minimum quals.

Private schools get their own priorities and preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Extracurricular activities are not "fair". Students with access to resources will always have more access to extracurricular activities. Music sports, dance, science art, drama, writing, travel, etc. All of these are going to be more available to students that have the money to finance access.

How does writing cost money? hiring instructor?

Around me, kids get sent off to very very expensive arts camps in the summer to learn, writing and all kinds of other things.

Training/Tutoring can help, but like Writing, Sports, Math, etc. these need talent.
Well, I guess for college admission, you don't need to be at top. Like non-profit, once you get in, who cares.

What are you talking about? If you're trying to use your extracurriculars to help you gain admission to college, the students that invest in their natural talent to get to improve to get to the top can get recruited or get admitted to a more competitive college. Those that can't or don't invest in honing their talents, won't be able to use talent in the same way.

People with natural talent require a lot of dedication and practice and time to develop it. That goes for writing or hitting a baseball and everything else.

Jane Austen’s family didn’t need to spend any money for her to hone her talent for writing. She just…wrote.

Okay, sure. Send your natural born hitter out in front of the baseball coach with a bat for the first time when he's trying to get recruited for the team. Good luck to him!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand how colleges claim to care about equity (ie scrape SAT) and then love published student research.

Most high schoolers who did research I know about have academic center physician parents, or in a minority of cases, donors to academic medical centers or parents that work at a national lab. High schoolers are not getting research gigs unconnected when even they’re competitive for college students.

They don't love published student research because they realize that just like the 'non-profit' it is typically a scam.

They actually do. Try to cope harder.

DP: Used to work as a counselor and both ‘research’ and ‘non-profit’ have become ECs which are highly scrutinized and generally discounted. If genuine with supportable results they can be excellent but they are mostly generic and can actually be detrimental if they appear to be done for admissions purposes.

Right now kids with deep and interesting ECs are getting the best results. Kids don’t have to be real ‘pointy’ but did they do something that they could have a deep and interesting conversation on?

I would not listen to this poster. There are a lot of high schools that have science research programs that develop students interest in science research over several years.

It was incredibly helpful to my students and to many other students that I know both for learning about science research and for admission to college to continue their studies.