How to stop amnesia about how narcissistic my dad is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone on the hike with my mom. It sounds like you all cater to your father. Why? So what if he’s offended? You can gently say, “thanks so much for the donuts! Unfortunately, Larla can’t have dairy – – I think we’ve mentioned this before. Otherwise she would love to have that.”

Your parents probably thought they could handle going to the party, but then when the time came, they just did not want to. Some people are going with the flow and some people aren’t. Sounds like you all worked through it and found a solution that worked for everybody

I think the problem is, you don’t want to stand up to your parents, and that’s the only thing that you can really control. I hate to say it, but after reading this website for a few years, your examples are not really that serious. Is it annoying? Sure. Do those things add up over the course of a visit? Sure. Is this an insurmountable problem coming from your father? Not so sure. I think you can change your mindset and steel yourself to push back a bit. See how that works next time.

Thanks. Honestly, my dad is incredibly laid back...until he isn't. And it's not always clear exactly what's going to set him off, but then he is very scary when he's angry. And something as simple as, "Thank you, but Larla can't have dairy," could be the thing that sets him off. He could get belligerent and treat it like I'm accusing him of not being a good grandfather or something. And I wouldn't be able to convince my mom to leave him alone to go for a hike, because she would be afraid that he would feel left out. Better that we all sit together on our phones. Really, it's probably the unpredictability of his anger that is the real problem, because we all walk on eggshells around him, rather than dealing with the minor issues as they arise.

Ah. This is a different problem. One that is very familiar, unfortunately. I did not clue in on you needing to be grateful for the coffee and donuts, but now I get it.

So your problem is not planning activities for a visit. Your problem is that you have never dealt with the fact that your father has anger issues/rejection issues, etc. I understand why you say he's a narcissist - a lot of what you experience from him seems like narcissistic traits - the DARVO, the refusal to take any responsibility, the walking on eggshells all the time. I have a person just like this in my life.

My advice is to forget about trying to engineer the perfect visit and go get therapy to learn how to set boundaries and how to deal with your dad and his behavior. I can see that you are trying to navigate the relationship so that the kids will have a good grandparent experience. Admirable, but eventually things are going to come to a head.

Thank you. I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents last year and a lot of it tracked for me, but it really is the anger that comes out of nowhere that has messed me up the most over the years. I jump at loud, unexpected noises. I hate surprises. I've gotten a lot better about it through awareness and therapy, but whenever my parents visit, it's like I fall right back into old patterns. And I don't know where the line is between giving my kids the opportunity to have a relationship with their grandparents and protecting them from the things that I dealt with as a child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think they like the attention that all this planning gives them.

Yep.
Stop coddling these adults who are set in their ways

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone on the hike with my mom. It sounds like you all cater to your father. Why? So what if he’s offended? You can gently say, “thanks so much for the donuts! Unfortunately, Larla can’t have dairy – – I think we’ve mentioned this before. Otherwise she would love to have that.”

Your parents probably thought they could handle going to the party, but then when the time came, they just did not want to. Some people are going with the flow and some people aren’t. Sounds like you all worked through it and found a solution that worked for everybody

I think the problem is, you don’t want to stand up to your parents, and that’s the only thing that you can really control. I hate to say it, but after reading this website for a few years, your examples are not really that serious. Is it annoying? Sure. Do those things add up over the course of a visit? Sure. Is this an insurmountable problem coming from your father? Not so sure. I think you can change your mindset and steel yourself to push back a bit. See how that works next time.

Thanks. Honestly, my dad is incredibly laid back...until he isn't. And it's not always clear exactly what's going to set him off, but then he is very scary when he's angry. And something as simple as, "Thank you, but Larla can't have dairy," could be the thing that sets him off. He could get belligerent and treat it like I'm accusing him of not being a good grandfather or something. And I wouldn't be able to convince my mom to leave him alone to go for a hike, because she would be afraid that he would feel left out. Better that we all sit together on our phones. Really, it's probably the unpredictability of his anger that is the real problem, because we all walk on eggshells around him, rather than dealing with the minor issues as they arise.

Ah. This is a different problem. One that is very familiar, unfortunately. I did not clue in on you needing to be grateful for the coffee and donuts, but now I get it.

So your problem is not planning activities for a visit. Your problem is that you have never dealt with the fact that your father has anger issues/rejection issues, etc. I understand why you say he's a narcissist - a lot of what you experience from him seems like narcissistic traits - the DARVO, the refusal to take any responsibility, the walking on eggshells all the time. I have a person just like this in my life.

My advice is to forget about trying to engineer the perfect visit and go get therapy to learn how to set boundaries and how to deal with your dad and his behavior. I can see that you are trying to navigate the relationship so that the kids will have a good grandparent experience. Admirable, but eventually things are going to come to a head.

Thank you. I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents last year and a lot of it tracked for me, but it really is the anger that comes out of nowhere that has messed me up the most over the years. I jump at loud, unexpected noises. I hate surprises. I've gotten a lot better about it through awareness and therapy, but whenever my parents visit, it's like I fall right back into old patterns. And I don't know where the line is between giving my kids the opportunity to have a relationship with their grandparents and protecting them from the things that I dealt with as a child.

PP here. I am sorry you are dealing with this. I wish I had a good answer for you. One thing I have done that has been hard is to let my emotionally immature adult (funny you said that because that's the exact same conclusion I finally came to!) manage their own relationships with others. I don't sugarcoat or try to smooth things over anymore. Which does mean less "stage managing" to try to cover all the bases and prevent blow ups. You are getting a lot of criticism here over that, and while I think it's coming from a place of not really understanding what you are dealing with, there is some truth to it.

So when your kid notices that grandpa is on his phone and not interacting you acknowledge it's happening with something like, "That's what Grandpa is choosing to do right now." and let the chips fall where they may. I don't know if that's the right answer, but at some point it became important for me to not deny reality to others in the way I had denied it to myself for so long. It creates a messed up sense of what's normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would have gone on the hike with my mom. It sounds like you all cater to your father. Why? So what if he’s offended? You can gently say, “thanks so much for the donuts! Unfortunately, Larla can’t have dairy – – I think we’ve mentioned this before. Otherwise she would love to have that.”

Your parents probably thought they could handle going to the party, but then when the time came, they just did not want to. Some people are going with the flow and some people aren’t. Sounds like you all worked through it and found a solution that worked for everybody

I think the problem is, you don’t want to stand up to your parents, and that’s the only thing that you can really control. I hate to say it, but after reading this website for a few years, your examples are not really that serious. Is it annoying? Sure. Do those things add up over the course of a visit? Sure. Is this an insurmountable problem coming from your father? Not so sure. I think you can change your mindset and steel yourself to push back a bit. See how that works next time.

Thanks. Honestly, my dad is incredibly laid back...until he isn't. And it's not always clear exactly what's going to set him off, but then he is very scary when he's angry. And something as simple as, "Thank you, but Larla can't have dairy," could be the thing that sets him off. He could get belligerent and treat it like I'm accusing him of not being a good grandfather or something. And I wouldn't be able to convince my mom to leave him alone to go for a hike, because she would be afraid that he would feel left out. Better that we all sit together on our phones. Really, it's probably the unpredictability of his anger that is the real problem, because we all walk on eggshells around him, rather than dealing with the minor issues as they arise.

Ah. This is a different problem. One that is very familiar, unfortunately. I did not clue in on you needing to be grateful for the coffee and donuts, but now I get it.

So your problem is not planning activities for a visit. Your problem is that you have never dealt with the fact that your father has anger issues/rejection issues, etc. I understand why you say he's a narcissist - a lot of what you experience from him seems like narcissistic traits - the DARVO, the refusal to take any responsibility, the walking on eggshells all the time. I have a person just like this in my life.

My advice is to forget about trying to engineer the perfect visit and go get therapy to learn how to set boundaries and how to deal with your dad and his behavior. I can see that you are trying to navigate the relationship so that the kids will have a good grandparent experience. Admirable, but eventually things are going to come to a head.

Thank you. I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents last year and a lot of it tracked for me, but it really is the anger that comes out of nowhere that has messed me up the most over the years. I jump at loud, unexpected noises. I hate surprises. I've gotten a lot better about it through awareness and therapy, but whenever my parents visit, it's like I fall right back into old patterns. And I don't know where the line is between giving my kids the opportunity to have a relationship with their grandparents and protecting them from the things that I dealt with as a child.

PP here. I am sorry you are dealing with this. I wish I had a good answer for you. One thing I have done that has been hard is to let my emotionally immature adult (funny you said that because that's the exact same conclusion I finally came to!) manage their own relationships with others. I don't sugarcoat or try to smooth things over anymore. Which does mean less "stage managing" to try to cover all the bases and prevent blow ups. You are getting a lot of criticism here over that, and while I think it's coming from a place of not really understanding what you are dealing with, there is some truth to it.

So when your kid notices that grandpa is on his phone and not interacting you acknowledge it's happening with something like, "That's what Grandpa is choosing to do right now." and let the chips fall where they may. I don't know if that's the right answer, but at some point it became important for me to not deny reality to others in the way I had denied it to myself for so long. It creates a messed up sense of what's normal.

Thank you. "Stage managing" actually feels like a very accurate word, though I've never really thought of it that way before. It has certainly always felt like I'm playing an acceptable role, rather than just being myself. I really appreciate this framing and the advice.