A real solution to underperforming and overcrowded schools

[Anonymous]

I taught in DOD schools. I always had ESOL kids--and, since I taught first grade/K the kids learned English quickly. But, later? I'm not sure. I don't think high school kids can adapt that quickly without intensive instruction.

I suspect, though, that we will have fewer ESOL kids in the future.

I have friends (older adults) whose parents immigrated from non-English speaking countries. They spoke native language at home until the kids started school. Then, they figured out that the kids needed to speak English. I'm sure that happens in some local ESOL homes, but not all.
It used to be that new immigrants assimilated. Now, still true with some, but not all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I taught in DOD schools. I always had ESOL kids--and, since I taught first grade/K the kids learned English quickly. But, later? I'm not sure. I don't think high school kids can adapt that quickly without intensive instruction.

I suspect, though, that we will have fewer ESOL kids in the future.

I have friends (older adults) whose parents immigrated from non-English speaking countries. They spoke native language at home until the kids started school. Then, they figured out that the kids needed to speak English. I'm sure that happens in some local ESOL homes, but not all.
It used to be that new immigrants assimilated. Now, still true with some, but not all.

Did all new immigrants assimilate immediately in the olden days?
Is that why we have areas of cities like Chinatown and Little Italy etc?

I think it took a generation, just like it is now. My immigrant Grandparents still hung out with people from the “Old Country” and less with “genuine Americans.” My Mom came over with her parents as an teen and established some more friendships with “Muricans” and I am pretty much assimilated now.

[Anonymous]

I’m tired of everyone with all of these ideas, who hasn’t been a teacher or ever set foot in a classroom or have been retired for years. My DH and extended family are guilty of it.

Anyone who start posts like this should be required to run for school board. Go for it. Try to put your plan into action and do something instead of posting anonymously and making noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid get deemed violent and disrespectful? Does that include fidgety boys in elementary school? Anyone on the autism spectrum?

Is it the teacher's choice? What safeguards will be put in place to prevent bias on a teacher or administration's part before sending a child to the special school?

Is the move to the school done before the start of school? Or is it a three-strikes, you get a mid-year school transfer that will be disruptive and detrimental to the child's education? Will there be a chance for parents to protest the ruling?

How much paperwork and time will all this take?I see so many red flags with this proposal. I also don't see any evidence that disruptive or violent students are a huge problem in any FCPS school, underperforming or no.

Also, I'd like to hope that the assumption isn't that ESOL students are supposed to be violent students in MS-13 gangs.

OP. I believe there are plenty of parents around the county who can supply all the evidence that principals don't want to report.

As for ESOL, there was no assumption about a link to MS13--that's your hot take. While the majority of ESOL around the county are Spanish speakers, it's hardly the only native language that one finds in classrooms where ESOL are failing to keep up or slowing the entire class down.

Kids can't learn if they can't understand English. Why do any of you want a sub-optimal outcome for these kids that compromised the learning environment for the rest of the class? Bring them up to speed on English and you will be helping them take the first step towards success in academics. Improve the SOLs for high ESOL schools and maybe certain areas of the country will see a pickup in families staying in their pyramids instead of falsifying addresses or requesting course-based transfers just to avoid certain schools.

So.... parent reports will determine who gets kicked out to the "bad" school and who stays in the regular school?

And since immersing a child in the language is apparently a bad way to learn, should FCPS drop their language immersion program? Because kids can't learn if they can't understand German or Japanese, and there are core subjects taught in those languages.

Immersion is a good way to learn, but that's not what's happening in Glen Forest elementary. Those kids are not learning English and they are not keeping up with the lessons. Go look at how Middlebury teaches languages through total immersion. ESOL kids need to be in English language instruction, not mainstream classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m tired of everyone with all of these ideas, who hasn’t been a teacher or ever set foot in a classroom or have been retired for years. My DH and extended family are guilty of it.

Anyone who start posts like this should be required to run for school board. Go for it. Try to put your plan into action and do something instead of posting anonymously and making noise.

I would love to run for school board or the board of supervisors, but let's be real, there is a lot of cronyism in play. But ok, deal. Maybe some other practical folks will do the same and we'll actually educate kids to a competitive standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid get deemed violent and disrespectful? Does that include fidgety boys in elementary school? Anyone on the autism spectrum?

Is it the teacher's choice? What safeguards will be put in place to prevent bias on a teacher or administration's part before sending a child to the special school?

Is the move to the school done before the start of school? Or is it a three-strikes, you get a mid-year school transfer that will be disruptive and detrimental to the child's education? Will there be a chance for parents to protest the ruling?

How much paperwork and time will all this take?I see so many red flags with this proposal. I also don't see any evidence that disruptive or violent students are a huge problem in any FCPS school, underperforming or no.

Also, I'd like to hope that the assumption isn't that ESOL students are supposed to be violent students in MS-13 gangs.

OP. I believe there are plenty of parents around the county who can supply all the evidence that principals don't want to report.

As for ESOL, there was no assumption about a link to MS13--that's your hot take. While the majority of ESOL around the county are Spanish speakers, it's hardly the only native language that one finds in classrooms where ESOL are failing to keep up or slowing the entire class down.

Kids can't learn if they can't understand English. Why do any of you want a sub-optimal outcome for these kids that compromised the learning environment for the rest of the class? Bring them up to speed on English and you will be helping them take the first step towards success in academics. Improve the SOLs for high ESOL schools and maybe certain areas of the country will see a pickup in families staying in their pyramids instead of falsifying addresses or requesting course-based transfers just to avoid certain schools.

So.... parent reports will determine who gets kicked out to the "bad" school and who stays in the regular school?

My point was that incidents of violence and disruption are underreported across the country because principals are obviously penalized for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m tired of everyone with all of these ideas, who hasn’t been a teacher or ever set foot in a classroom or have been retired for years. My DH and extended family are guilty of it.

Anyone who start posts like this should be required to run for school board. Go for it. Try to put your plan into action and do something instead of posting anonymously and making noise.

I'm tired of seeing my property taxes wasted on ideas and practices that don't work. The role of FCPS is to educate kids, not coddle them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m tired of everyone with all of these ideas, who hasn’t been a teacher or ever set foot in a classroom or have been retired for years. My DH and extended family are guilty of it.

Anyone who start posts like this should be required to run for school board. Go for it. Try to put your plan into action and do something instead of posting anonymously and making noise.

I'm tired of seeing my property taxes wasted on ideas and practices that don't work. The role of FCPS is to educate kids, not coddle them.

So take my advice. Do something. Stop complaining. Run for SB.

[Anonymous]

The worst behaved kids who caused the most problems during our time at FCPS were white and disproportionately were teachers kids (some even pupil placed and still caused problems).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m tired of everyone with all of these ideas, who hasn’t been a teacher or ever set foot in a classroom or have been retired for years. My DH and extended family are guilty of it.

Anyone who start posts like this should be required to run for school board. Go for it. Try to put your plan into action and do something instead of posting anonymously and making noise.

I'm tired of seeing my property taxes wasted on ideas and practices that don't work. The role of FCPS is to educate kids, not coddle them.

You only see half of your property taxes go to schools. And a smaller percentage of that is spent on the practices you don’t like.
But yeah, run for office and maybe you will see it isn’t as easy as spouting off some half cocked, ill planned ideas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Lordy. You act like everyone born with ivory to beige bisque skin speaks English simply because they're white. For your information, there are pale children born in foreign lands who would qualify for ESL services if they moved to the U.S. Whiteness doesn't ensure English proficiency with the snap of one's fingers.

Conservatives are always accusing liberals of being racist. There you go giving them evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Lordy. You act like everyone born with ivory to beige bisque skin speaks English simply because they're white. For your information, there are pale children born in foreign lands who would qualify for ESL services if they moved to the U.S. Whiteness doesn't ensure English proficiency with the snap of one's fingers.

Conservatives are always accusing liberals of being racist. There you go giving them evidence.

Yeah, well I just wrote a post about my Grandparents and mom Norther European immigrants (white) who didn’t speak English when they came here so I’m pretty aware. My crappy opinion about you that came from your views about foreigners and ESL learners still stands. The fact of the matter is that right NOW, the majority of ESL kids in Fairfax are brown. A generation or two ago that wasn’t true, but it is now. By calling for stand alone ESL classrooms/schools in 2025, you are putting mostly brown children out of the general education population. Whether that is racism or a fear of ESL kids, doesn’t really matter. It is still creating otherness and segregating children and society based upon a single attribute (language).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Lordy. You act like everyone born with ivory to beige bisque skin speaks English simply because they're white. For your information, there are pale children born in foreign lands who would qualify for ESL services if they moved to the U.S. Whiteness doesn't ensure English proficiency with the snap of one's fingers.

Conservatives are always accusing liberals of being racist. There you go giving them evidence.

Yeah, well I just wrote a post about my Grandparents and mom Norther European immigrants (white) who didn’t speak English when they came here so I’m pretty aware. My crappy opinion about you that came from your views about foreigners and ESL learners still stands. The fact of the matter is that right NOW, the majority of ESL kids in Fairfax are brown. A generation or two ago that wasn’t true, but it is now. By calling for stand alone ESL classrooms/schools in 2025, you are putting mostly brown children out of the general education population. Whether that is racism or a fear of ESL kids, doesn’t really matter. It is still creating otherness and segregating children and society based upon a single attribute (language).

Yeah just language. No big deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Lordy. You act like everyone born with ivory to beige bisque skin speaks English simply because they're white. For your information, there are pale children born in foreign lands who would qualify for ESL services if they moved to the U.S. Whiteness doesn't ensure English proficiency with the snap of one's fingers.

Conservatives are always accusing liberals of being racist. There you go giving them evidence.

Yeah, well I just wrote a post about my Grandparents and mom Norther European immigrants (white) who didn’t speak English when they came here so I’m pretty aware. My crappy opinion about you that came from your views about foreigners and ESL learners still stands. The fact of the matter is that right NOW, the majority of ESL kids in Fairfax are brown. A generation or two ago that wasn’t true, but it is now. By calling for stand alone ESL classrooms/schools in 2025, you are putting mostly brown children out of the general education population. Whether that is racism or a fear of ESL kids, doesn’t really matter. It is still creating otherness and segregating children and society based upon a single attribute (language).

Yeah just language. No big deal.

I guess you misunderstood me. It IS a big deal to segregate based upon ANY attribute.

You are also not grasping that all parents can opt out of ESL services and most, under your segregation plan, would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The worst behaved kids who caused the most problems during our time at FCPS were white and disproportionately were teachers kids (some even pupil placed and still caused problems).

They should get the same treatment--removal for disruption. Skin color is irrelevant here. The two issues are the impact of ESOL and violence/disruption on learning. Address both, and don't assume they are one and the same kids.