A real solution to underperforming and overcrowded schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just putting this out there - this can't be an FCPS-only or right now problem.

I went to public school (not FCPS) in multiple states in the 80s and 90s and there have always been issues. Special education students were segregated in the schools that I went to (which is a whole other conversation), but there were certainly "bad" kids (whether they got bad grades, got in trouble, maybe both, bad home situation, etc.) throughout my time in school. I remember the kids who were constantly in the principal's office, at detention, etc etc. Yes, it was disruptive but we went about our day and just kind of stayed away from them.

The issue is that now the principal’s office sends these kids back to class with a bag of candy. There’s no way for the other students to stay away from the troublemakers until much later in high school.

Current policy when a child overturns a desk or throws a chair in class is for that child to remain in the classroom, alone, while the rest of the class evacuates to a safe-space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Public schools serve the public. If you don’t want your kids in class with the public, you’re going to have to pay for private. They’ll be plenty of things you don’t like about those schools either.

They don't fully serve the public because the focus is on a smaller group of students at the expense of the rest.

[Anonymous]

Having been an immersion teacher for many years, albeit in private, wealthy schools, I do see the benefit of ESOL students having a separate curriculum to help them get mainstreamed into the regular classroom. Could these classrooms be at their base schools, instead of at a “center”?

Let’s also agree that ESOL does not equal “behavior issue”. If the OP is suggesting a special school for violent, disrespectful kids, let’s make sure “Chad McDouchey” also get sent there. Not just the ESOL/non-white kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Forget about the money -- who are you going to find to teach at such schools? It's hard enough to find special ed/disabilities teachers right now. Who is going to take a job at a school where all the most difficult kids were purposely placed? I know OP is just trying to stir the pot with this because it's so stupid and poorly thought out.

more money for those positions?

Say 100k above current salaries?

So a special education teacher would make $180K and an AP teacher would make $80K?

Now you’ll have a severe shortage of all other types of teachers.

so be it, you asked for a solution now you have one

you pay enough money you attract more people, keeping them around might not be enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Forget about the money -- who are you going to find to teach at such schools? It's hard enough to find special ed/disabilities teachers right now. Who is going to take a job at a school where all the most difficult kids were purposely placed? I know OP is just trying to stir the pot with this because it's so stupid and poorly thought out.

more money for those positions?

Say 100k above current salaries?

So a special education teacher would make $180K and an AP teacher would make $80K?

Now you’ll have a severe shortage of all other types of teachers.

so be it, you asked for a solution now you have one

you pay enough money you attract more people, keeping them around might not be enough

I used to say, when teaching in a very rough school, that we deserved "combat pay." Breaking up fights, etc. And, the kids actually were very sweet kids when you were one on one with them.

[Anonymous]

How does a kid get deemed violent and disrespectful? Does that include fidgety boys in elementary school? Anyone on the autism spectrum?

Is it the teacher's choice? What safeguards will be put in place to prevent bias on a teacher or administration's part before sending a child to the special school?

Is the move to the school done before the start of school? Or is it a three-strikes, you get a mid-year school transfer that will be disruptive and detrimental to the child's education? Will there be a chance for parents to protest the ruling?

How much paperwork and time will all this take?I see so many red flags with this proposal. I also don't see any evidence that disruptive or violent students are a huge problem in any FCPS school, underperforming or no.

Also, I'd like to hope that the assumption isn't that ESOL students are supposed to be violent students in MS-13 gangs.

[Anonymous]

It already exists OP!

It's called AAP vs. gen ed.

And it's reversed per your proposal. The well behaved, and better test-takers get to be shuttled to a special school (mostly homogeneous to boot) not the bad kids. The average kids are stuck with them (FCPS loves "mainstreaming").

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It already exists OP!

It's called AAP vs. gen ed.

And it's reversed per your proposal. The well behaved, and better test-takers get to be shuttled to a special school (mostly homogeneous to boot) not the bad kids. The average kids are stuck with them (FCPS loves "mainstreaming").

What are you tslking about?

AAP is full of boys who struggle with behavior.

Gifted has a high correlation with ADHD and Aspergers type behaviors, which definitely translates into a disproportionately high number of AAP kids who are far from well behaved, complaint, ideal students.

[Anonymous]

AAP has been a lifesaver for our DC. Pretty much normal school from 20 years ago. Base school was the nightmare described in OP

[Anonymous]

The real solution is as simple as taking ESOL kids "off the books" from the high school itself even if they don't need to go to a separate center off-site. That is how some of the FCPS Interagency Alternative programs work. They unenroll kids from the base school and enroll them into the alternative program, but they still physically go to the base school and attend alternative courses with alternative teachers on-site.

By enrolling into a separate program, they don't ding the base school test scores and instead ding the alternative program which nobody worries about. It's a genuine way to highlight that the typical base school kids and teachers are doing just fine, and the kids who need significant extraordinary help are served without making it seem like the base school is failing everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It already exists OP!

It's called AAP vs. gen ed.

And it's reversed per your proposal. The well behaved, and better test-takers get to be shuttled to a special school (mostly homogeneous to boot) not the bad kids. The average kids are stuck with them (FCPS loves "mainstreaming").

Glasgow is an AAP school and I'm not sure parents would agree that it's "mostly homogeneous, not the bad kids" but that AAP at Glasgow is a school within a school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid get deemed violent and disrespectful? Does that include fidgety boys in elementary school? Anyone on the autism spectrum?

Is it the teacher's choice? What safeguards will be put in place to prevent bias on a teacher or administration's part before sending a child to the special school?

Is the move to the school done before the start of school? Or is it a three-strikes, you get a mid-year school transfer that will be disruptive and detrimental to the child's education? Will there be a chance for parents to protest the ruling?

How much paperwork and time will all this take?I see so many red flags with this proposal. I also don't see any evidence that disruptive or violent students are a huge problem in any FCPS school, underperforming or no.

Also, I'd like to hope that the assumption isn't that ESOL students are supposed to be violent students in MS-13 gangs.

OP. I believe there are plenty of parents around the county who can supply all the evidence that principals don't want to report.

As for ESOL, there was no assumption about a link to MS13--that's your hot take. While the majority of ESOL around the county are Spanish speakers, it's hardly the only native language that one finds in classrooms where ESOL are failing to keep up or slowing the entire class down.

Kids can't learn if they can't understand English. Why do any of you want a sub-optimal outcome for these kids that compromised the learning environment for the rest of the class? Bring them up to speed on English and you will be helping them take the first step towards success in academics. Improve the SOLs for high ESOL schools and maybe certain areas of the country will see a pickup in families staying in their pyramids instead of falsifying addresses or requesting course-based transfers just to avoid certain schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The real solution is as simple as taking ESOL kids "off the books" from the high school itself even if they don't need to go to a separate center off-site. That is how some of the FCPS Interagency Alternative programs work. They unenroll kids from the base school and enroll them into the alternative program, but they still physically go to the base school and attend alternative courses with alternative teachers on-site.

By enrolling into a separate program, they don't ding the base school test scores and instead ding the alternative program which nobody worries about. It's a genuine way to highlight that the typical base school kids and teachers are doing just fine, and the kids who need significant extraordinary help are served without making it seem like the base school is failing everyone.

Off balance-sheet transactions worked great for Enron, so I’m sure they’ll work great for FCPS as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid get deemed violent and disrespectful? Does that include fidgety boys in elementary school? Anyone on the autism spectrum?

Is it the teacher's choice? What safeguards will be put in place to prevent bias on a teacher or administration's part before sending a child to the special school?

Is the move to the school done before the start of school? Or is it a three-strikes, you get a mid-year school transfer that will be disruptive and detrimental to the child's education? Will there be a chance for parents to protest the ruling?

How much paperwork and time will all this take?I see so many red flags with this proposal. I also don't see any evidence that disruptive or violent students are a huge problem in any FCPS school, underperforming or no.

Also, I'd like to hope that the assumption isn't that ESOL students are supposed to be violent students in MS-13 gangs.

OP. I believe there are plenty of parents around the county who can supply all the evidence that principals don't want to report.

As for ESOL, there was no assumption about a link to MS13--that's your hot take. While the majority of ESOL around the county are Spanish speakers, it's hardly the only native language that one finds in classrooms where ESOL are failing to keep up or slowing the entire class down.

Kids can't learn if they can't understand English. Why do any of you want a sub-optimal outcome for these kids that compromised the learning environment for the rest of the class? Bring them up to speed on English and you will be helping them take the first step towards success in academics. Improve the SOLs for high ESOL schools and maybe certain areas of the country will see a pickup in families staying in their pyramids instead of falsifying addresses or requesting course-based transfers just to avoid certain schools.

So.... parent reports will determine who gets kicked out to the "bad" school and who stays in the regular school?

And since immersing a child in the language is apparently a bad way to learn, should FCPS drop their language immersion program? Because kids can't learn if they can't understand German or Japanese, and there are core subjects taught in those languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS boundary review is such mess, and no one is happy about it, in large part because it's holding the real estate market hostage across much of the county. Can we all agree that all taxpayers in FFX County deserve to send to their kids to safe schools where academic achievement is not hindered by kids who either misbehave or hold the class back due to poor English comprehension? To that end, the simplest solution to the boundary fiasco would be to put underperforming students and those with behavior problems into separate facilities. There have to be consequences for misbehavior, and incentives to learn and speak English at a level consistent with learning at a normal pace.

Stop conflating education and real estate. Stop the fighting over school boundaries. Support kids who want to learn with opportunities to be challenged by like-minded peers, and stop apologizing for poor performance.

Good grief. Poor performing schools are due to distinct divisions in the resources and privileges families have, not behavior. The schools are also not to blame.

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