A real solution to underperforming and overcrowded schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, let's go back to 1985 and just keep everyone who isn't JUST LIKE US hidden away in some craptastic closet somewhere.

You clearly don't want kids to succeed. How about we just the ones who can't speak English into quality English-immersion programs and then put them back in mainstream classes when they can keep up with the native English speakers. As for the disruptive, violent kids, there is simply no reason to keep them in mainstream classrooms. Violence should not be tolerated.

[Anonymous]

Just putting this out there - this can't be an FCPS-only or right now problem.

I went to public school (not FCPS) in multiple states in the 80s and 90s and there have always been issues. Special education students were segregated in the schools that I went to (which is a whole other conversation), but there were certainly "bad" kids (whether they got bad grades, got in trouble, maybe both, bad home situation, etc.) throughout my time in school. I remember the kids who were constantly in the principal's office, at detention, etc etc. Yes, it was disruptive but we went about our day and just kind of stayed away from them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Forget about the money -- who are you going to find to teach at such schools? It's hard enough to find special ed/disabilities teachers right now. Who is going to take a job at a school where all the most difficult kids were purposely placed? I know OP is just trying to stir the pot with this because it's so stupid and poorly thought out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Forget about the money -- who are you going to find to teach at such schools? It's hard enough to find special ed/disabilities teachers right now. Who is going to take a job at a school where all the most difficult kids were purposely placed? I know OP is just trying to stir the pot with this because it's so stupid and poorly thought out.

What’s your solution?
Let teachers get assaulted?
You are evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS boundary review is such mess, and no one is happy about it, in large part because it's holding the real estate market hostage across much of the county. Can we all agree that all taxpayers in FFX County deserve to send to their kids to safe schools where academic achievement is not hindered by kids who either misbehave or hold the class back due to poor English comprehension? To that end, the simplest solution to the boundary fiasco would be to put underperforming students and those with behavior problems into separate facilities. There have to be consequences for misbehavior, and incentives to learn and speak English at a level consistent with learning at a normal pace.

Stop conflating education and real estate. Stop the fighting over school boundaries. Support kids who want to learn with opportunities to be challenged by like-minded peers, and stop apologizing for poor performance.

+1000
If only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Forget about the money -- who are you going to find to teach at such schools? It's hard enough to find special ed/disabilities teachers right now. Who is going to take a job at a school where all the most difficult kids were purposely placed? I know OP is just trying to stir the pot with this because it's so stupid and poorly thought out.

more money for those positions?

Say 100k above current salaries?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, let's go back to 1985 and just keep everyone who isn't JUST LIKE US hidden away in some craptastic closet somewhere.

You clearly don't want kids to succeed. How about we just the ones who can't speak English into quality English-immersion programs and then put them back in mainstream classes when they can keep up with the native English speakers. As for the disruptive, violent kids, there is simply no reason to keep them in mainstream classrooms. Violence should not be tolerated.

I'm pretty outraged that you are lumping ESOL students and disruptive, violent kids into the same bucket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, let's go back to 1985 and just keep everyone who isn't JUST LIKE US hidden away in some craptastic closet somewhere.

You clearly don't want kids to succeed. How about we just the ones who can't speak English into quality English-immersion programs and then put them back in mainstream classes when they can keep up with the native English speakers. As for the disruptive, violent kids, there is simply no reason to keep them in mainstream classrooms. Violence should not be tolerated.

I'm pretty outraged that you are lumping ESOL students and disruptive, violent kids into the same bucket.

Both groups negatively impact learning and performance. OP proposed intensive English immersion for ESOL, and removal for behavioral issues--that's hardly the same bucket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The FCPS boundary review is such mess, and no one is happy about it, in large part because it's holding the real estate market hostage across much of the county. Can we all agree that all taxpayers in FFX County deserve to send to their kids to safe schools where academic achievement is not hindered by kids who either misbehave or hold the class back due to poor English comprehension? To that end, the simplest solution to the boundary fiasco would be to put underperforming students and those with behavior problems into separate facilities. There have to be consequences for misbehavior, and incentives to learn and speak English at a level consistent with learning at a normal pace.

Stop conflating education and real estate. Stop the fighting over school boundaries. Support kids who want to learn with opportunities to be challenged by like-minded peers, and stop apologizing for poor performance.

Good grief. Poor performing schools are due to distinct divisions in the resources and privileges families have, not behavior. The schools are also not to blame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh OP- do tell where the money for the extra administration, classrooms, buses, bus drivers, and SPED teachers or ESL teachers are going to come from? I highly doubt you would be up for more property taxes. And no, central office cuts would not be enough to offset your large ask.

Expand and tell us when a child is “proficient” enough in English to sit next to your child. Who is testing them and when can they move from the brown room to yours?

Forget about the money -- who are you going to find to teach at such schools? It's hard enough to find special ed/disabilities teachers right now. Who is going to take a job at a school where all the most difficult kids were purposely placed? I know OP is just trying to stir the pot with this because it's so stupid and poorly thought out.

more money for those positions?

Say 100k above current salaries?

So a special education teacher would make $180K and an AP teacher would make $80K?

Now you’ll have a severe shortage of all other types of teachers.

[Anonymous]

Don't the "misbehaved kids" already go to a special school?
There was a huge scandal awhile back on fcps protocol, FOIA, and data breach.

[Anonymous]

As evidenced by their initial statement and follow up posts, the OP isn’t really able to think about consequences of their proposals.

Blaming ESL kids and SPED kids for their choices also illustrates this lack of critical thinking.

Saying moving everyone around because they are against boundary changes also demonstrates a huge lack of reasoning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a really stupid thread. Congratulations, OP.

You hate simple solutions. Got it.

Solutions so simple in fact that they are very likely to simultaneously run afoul of Brown v. Board of Education and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). Just ignore the law, it will easy.

I don't think you fully understand the intent behind IDEA. I was never meant for ESOL situations, but rather IEPs. As for BvBE, you would rather see kids continue to fall behind and create an unsafe learning environment as a result of their disruptive behavior than admit that ESOL kids need full English-language immersion in order to get their English reading, writing, speaking and comprehension up to grade level (or better). Why would you deny them a quality education because they can't understand the language. If anyone is discriminating here it's you and other "equity before all" progressives who can't face the truth about what's caused various schools across the county to slip in pupil performance.

You are incorrect.

ESL students are protected by IDEA, and cannot legally be segregated from your English speaking kid's classroom. They can be pulled out briefly for specific targeted instruction, similar to a kid getting speech therapy gets pulled out, but they cannot legally be removed from your kid's class.

This is well established and basic education law.

No, you are incorrect. They are only covered under IDEA if they also have a disability. If we were using IDA metrics andEnglish proficiency is very low ,being in general classroom is a restrictive environment because they cannot access the curriculum.
There is a law supporting ELL students
https://www.ed.gov/sites/ed/files/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/dcl-factsheet-el-students-201501.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just putting this out there - this can't be an FCPS-only or right now problem.

I went to public school (not FCPS) in multiple states in the 80s and 90s and there have always been issues. Special education students were segregated in the schools that I went to (which is a whole other conversation), but there were certainly "bad" kids (whether they got bad grades, got in trouble, maybe both, bad home situation, etc.) throughout my time in school. I remember the kids who were constantly in the principal's office, at detention, etc etc. Yes, it was disruptive but we went about our day and just kind of stayed away from them.

The issue is that now the principal’s office sends these kids back to class with a bag of candy. There’s no way for the other students to stay away from the troublemakers until much later in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not going to be enough for the MAGAs to bash trans kids before the fall election so look for the anti-Hispanic rhetoric to spike as well.

Are you the person who made this sign, PP ?

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1288566.page