Why do we tolerate trash talking and elitism as "boys will be boys" behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because boys WILL be boys. And girls WILL be girls. The meme gets it right.
Two boys talking:
Boy 1: "Fake insult"
Boy 2: "Fake insult"

Two girls talking:
Girl 1: "Fake compliment"
Girl 2: "Fake compliment"

I'll hang with the boys any day.

This.

Is why I prefer male friends over other women.
Women are catty and downright evil much more than men are.
Men are more blunt and straightforward, at least the masculine manly types usually are moreso.

So what you are saying is boys and men can “trash talk” it’s what they do. But girls don’t get to do the same? Girls are catty and evil while boys are just having fun?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because boys WILL be boys. And girls WILL be girls. The meme gets it right.
Two boys talking:
Boy 1: "Fake insult"
Boy 2: "Fake insult"

Two girls talking:
Girl 1: "Fake compliment"
Girl 2: "Fake compliment"

I'll hang with the boys any day.

This.

Is why I prefer male friends over other women.
Women are catty and downright evil much more than men are.
Men are more blunt and straightforward, at least the masculine manly types usually are moreso.

So what you are saying is boys and men can “trash talk” it’s what they do. But girls don’t get to do the same? Girls are catty and evil while boys are just having fun?

Not PP. It sounds like PP is saying she finds men easier than women. She’s allowed to think it’s hard to have female friends.

You have poor listening skills and your interpretation is mean. You fit the stereotype.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because boys WILL be boys. And girls WILL be girls. The meme gets it right.
Two boys talking:
Boy 1: "Fake insult"
Boy 2: "Fake insult"

Two girls talking:
Girl 1: "Fake compliment"
Girl 2: "Fake compliment"

I'll hang with the boys any day.

This.

Is why I prefer male friends over other women.
Women are catty and downright evil much more than men are.
Men are more blunt and straightforward, at least the masculine manly types usually are moreso.

So what you are saying is boys and men can “trash talk” it’s what they do. But girls don’t get to do the same? Girls are catty and evil while boys are just having fun?

Not PP. It sounds like PP is saying she finds men easier than women. She’s allowed to think it’s hard to have female friends.

You have poor listening skills and your interpretation is mean. You fit the stereotype.

The stereotype is that women go onto anonymous forums to snark at each other. The reality isn’t so cut and dry, but there are some who fit the stereotype.

[Anonymous]

Trump won 2 elections by trash talking, so the rewards are obvious.

[Anonymous]

I think some people just like to be competitive socially. I don't think it's deeper than that. They are told that others are doing this and they should do the same. Those happens with adults as well. I currently can't stand a coworker who makes every conversation a competition or always has to have a scapegoat to complain about. Just really high narcissistic traits. I think she was just raised this way to complain about others and try to establish a pecking order with people. It's taken me decades to stop wondering why people do this and to just never be close to them to begin with. Find stupid ways to puff them up and work around them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think some people just like to be competitive socially. I don't think it's deeper than that. They are told that others are doing this and they should do the same. Those happens with adults as well. I currently can't stand a coworker who makes every conversation a competition or always has to have a scapegoat to complain about. Just really high narcissistic traits. I think she was just raised this way to complain about others and try to establish a pecking order with people. It's taken me decades to stop wondering why people do this and to just never be close to them to begin with. Find stupid ways to puff them up and work around them.

Adults who trash talk borishly might be competitive but loads more kids than adults trash talk. The difference in numbers is the kids who are mostly trying to figure themselves out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

[Anonymous]

My adult boys ribbed their friends, and vice versa. I don’t recall any mean trash talking. They have close friendships with boys they can rely on, but still aren’t as open as girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

You think people should behave like characters on sitcoms? You think that's the standard for human interaction?

Those aren't real people. Characters on sitcoms make fun of each other constantly because the people who write sitcoms are under pressure to ensure there are at least 3 jokes on every page of script. Literally, they count them, and they get notes from networks about upping just keep rates.

Jokes at another person's expense are mean, but easy. So if you need to produce humor, it's an easy target. Easier than social commentary. And much easier for performers than broad comedy or physical humor. It's also cheap.

So yes, people in sitcoms relentlessly "roast" each other and never get too mad about it (unless their anger might be funny). Because they aren't real people and because their whole job is to produce a laugh.

IRL, people have feelings, and that's mean.

[Anonymous]

Tl;dr
We don't tolerate it. Why do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

You think people should behave like characters on sitcoms? You think that's the standard for human interaction?

Those aren't real people. Characters on sitcoms make fun of each other constantly because the people who write sitcoms are under pressure to ensure there are at least 3 jokes on every page of script. Literally, they count them, and they get notes from networks about upping just keep rates.

Jokes at another person's expense are mean, but easy. So if you need to produce humor, it's an easy target. Easier than social commentary. And much easier for performers than broad comedy or physical humor. It's also cheap.

So yes, people in sitcoms relentlessly "roast" each other and never get too mad about it (unless their anger might be funny). Because they aren't real people and because their whole job is to produce a laugh.

IRL, people have feelings, and that's mean.

Yes in my real life my friends, family and I are accepting of our flaws and make fun of ourselves and each other. It is not mean when it makes us feel good, understood and accepted.

It is mean when it hurts someone’s feelings. This is also how inner circles develop. You can’t be friends with someone who calls this blanket mean, especially when both recipient and deliverer partake joyfully.

Kids in 2nd grade don’t have inner circles. They don’t know what will make one kid feel great will make another cry sometimes until it happens. When they make mistakes, they should absolutely apologize. They sometimes don’t know how sensitive they are until they themselves have hurt feelings and cry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

You think people should behave like characters on sitcoms? You think that's the standard for human interaction?

Those aren't real people. Characters on sitcoms make fun of each other constantly because the people who write sitcoms are under pressure to ensure there are at least 3 jokes on every page of script. Literally, they count them, and they get notes from networks about upping just keep rates.

Jokes at another person's expense are mean, but easy. So if you need to produce humor, it's an easy target. Easier than social commentary. And much easier for performers than broad comedy or physical humor. It's also cheap.

So yes, people in sitcoms relentlessly "roast" each other and never get too mad about it (unless their anger might be funny). Because they aren't real people and because their whole job is to produce a laugh.

IRL, people have feelings, and that's mean.

Yes in my real life my friends, family and I are accepting of our flaws and make fun of ourselves and each other. It is not mean when it makes us feel good, understood and accepted.

It is mean when it hurts someone’s feelings. This is also how inner circles develop. You can’t be friends with someone who calls this blanket mean, especially when both recipient and deliverer partake joyfully.

Kids in 2nd grade don’t have inner circles. They don’t know what will make one kid feel great will make another cry sometimes until it happens. When they make mistakes, they should absolutely apologize. They sometimes don’t know how sensitive they are until they themselves have hurt feelings and cry.

You are assuming what you do is universal and accepted, and it's not.

Also, even in functional in-groups where teasing us ok, the precursor is love and full acceptance of one another. And enough knowledge to know what is off limits and not, plus how to repair when a line is crossed. It takes deep love and trust.

How do you build that live and trust? Kindness and empathy. So if you want your kids to come say understand how to tease a very close friend it family member correctly, you encourage kindness and empathy and discourage meanness. Their relationships will naturally become more sophisticated later, but the foundation isn't "roasting ." You start with kindness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

You think people should behave like characters on sitcoms? You think that's the standard for human interaction?

Those aren't real people. Characters on sitcoms make fun of each other constantly because the people who write sitcoms are under pressure to ensure there are at least 3 jokes on every page of script. Literally, they count them, and they get notes from networks about upping just keep rates.

Jokes at another person's expense are mean, but easy. So if you need to produce humor, it's an easy target. Easier than social commentary. And much easier for performers than broad comedy or physical humor. It's also cheap.

So yes, people in sitcoms relentlessly "roast" each other and never get too mad about it (unless their anger might be funny). Because they aren't real people and because their whole job is to produce a laugh.

IRL, people have feelings, and that's mean.

Yes in my real life my friends, family and I are accepting of our flaws and make fun of ourselves and each other. It is not mean when it makes us feel good, understood and accepted.

It is mean when it hurts someone’s feelings. This is also how inner circles develop. You can’t be friends with someone who calls this blanket mean, especially when both recipient and deliverer partake joyfully.

Kids in 2nd grade don’t have inner circles. They don’t know what will make one kid feel great will make another cry sometimes until it happens. When they make mistakes, they should absolutely apologize. They sometimes don’t know how sensitive they are until they themselves have hurt feelings and cry.

You are assuming what you do is universal and accepted, and it's not.

Also, even in functional in-groups where teasing us ok, the precursor is love and full acceptance of one another. And enough knowledge to know what is off limits and not, plus how to repair when a line is crossed. It takes deep love and trust.

How do you build that live and trust? Kindness and empathy. So if you want your kids to come say understand how to tease a very close friend it family member correctly, you encourage kindness and empathy and discourage meanness. Their relationships will naturally become more sophisticated later, but the foundation isn't "roasting ." You start with kindness.

No, I’m not assuming what I do, how I feel, or how my relationships develop are universal. You are.

You’re assuming you know how 8yos feel enough to not tolerate roasting point blank. I’m saying that there are many times when roasting is wrong and inappropriate, and that kids make mistakes. And that the mistakes are developmental.

But you don’t have to take my word for it. There are child development experts and therapists who can help explain.