Why do we tolerate trash talking and elitism as "boys will be boys" behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a 4th grade DD who had been warned about how difficult tween and teen girls were and how mean they are to each other. I was always told that boys were straightforward and easy.

It’s been shocking to see girls rally together and be supportive and kind, and to see the cruel, aggressive and constant work boys exert to establish and maintain a pecking order and their place in it. (I just wrote basically the same thing on the special needs thread and it isn’t worth rephrasing) Girl moms talked for years about relational aggression, but now I think it’s who who are really pushing the boundaries of what that can look like.

We have multiple boys at our school leaving because they’ve basically been driven out by this alpha boy nonsense.

Not against you. I have the same observations

But why do we not believe boys have an emotional life as well as girls?

Because it's not fostered by their parents or society. My boys have an emotional life, because I'm raising them that way. I see other boys getting the message that aggression = good; empathy = weakness. It's sad.

Just because a boy uses anger as a masking emotion over other emotions doesn't mean he doesn't have an emotional life.

I'm female and do this, so I can attest to it. Literally talking about that in therapy the other day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you not attend school? This is something that was happening when I went to elementary school in the late 70's/ early 80's. It most likely has happened for hundreds of years.

This just don’t carpool or better yet homeschool

Sheltering your kids doesn't give them the skills they need to deal with it IRL. Homeschooling for this reason is stupid (there are good reasons to homeschool, but this ain't it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys bond this way.

Yup!

It sucks for the ones they bully and leave out. They don't have bonds

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't found this at all with either my 9 year-old boy or my 11 year-old boy. Their friend groups are really lovely boys and lovely families. Both play sports but neither has an identity formed solely around sports, so maybe that is why. Is it all boys or just a toxic environment around certain sports or activities that you are noticing? I wouldn't paint with too broad a brush.

It usually happens later in middle school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS’s friends, including those on his sports team, are not into this. Nice kids.

The girls in my DD’s class? Really awful and they get it from their moms.

So there’s that.

That’s actually really interesting, because in our grade with very badly behaved mean boys, it’s their moms who have the most social capital in the grade and are part of the more pretty/popular/rich parent clique. The moms of girls are more of a mixed group.

It’s almost like it varies across schools, grades and activities. Like making such broad general statements really isn’t useful at all.

Hmmm.

I think what people are saying is that the aggression by boys has escalated beyond what a normal and seems to be sanctioned parents in a way that it wasn’t in the past.

No one is arguing that girls aren’t badly behaved or that some kids are well behaved, just that one end of the bell curve of behavior seems to have changed significantly and for reasons that have to do with people’s specific parenting goals.

If only we had good role models for the boys to look up to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, I have four boys and yes, there is something that kind of breaks in them during middle school and remains broken during high school. They sort of seal up emotionally because it's just.not.acceptable. to feel things. It's strange and weird and basically the one thing that sort of opened them up weirdly was dating girls and even then it is sort of screwed up that they rely on them for this solely. Their friends aren't safe spaces.

Keen observation!

Train your son how to be a good friend. I've done that with my sons and daughters. Now, even my boys can give and take empathy from others. And, yes, I do see my DD has male friends that call on her for that type of support because they cannot get it from friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys bond this way.

Yup!

In the same way that mean girls do. It's taught and reinforced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boys bond this way.

You are part of the problem. Please don't reproduce anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of our girls got bullied severely by other girls in grade school. She got pushed up against walls, had her hands stomped on, got bruised and hit. All by other girls. Maybe it's time we start also saying that "girls can be girls".

How about we advocate for parents to teach their kids empathy and good sportsmanship regardless if gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a 4th grade DD who had been warned about how difficult tween and teen girls were and how mean they are to each other. I was always told that boys were straightforward and easy.

It’s been shocking to see girls rally together and be supportive and kind, and to see the cruel, aggressive and constant work boys exert to establish and maintain a pecking order and their place in it. (I just wrote basically the same thing on the special needs thread and it isn’t worth rephrasing) Girl moms talked for years about relational aggression, but now I think it’s who who are really pushing the boundaries of what that can look like.

We have multiple boys at our school leaving because they’ve basically been driven out by this alpha boy nonsense.

Not against you. I have the same observations

But why do we not believe boys have an emotional life as well as girls?

Because it's not fostered by their parents or society. My boys have an emotional life, because I'm raising them that way. I see other boys getting the message that aggression = good; empathy = weakness. It's sad.

And Elon Musk agrees on empthy = weakness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a parent of a 4th grade DD who had been warned about how difficult tween and teen girls were and how mean they are to each other. I was always told that boys were straightforward and easy.

It’s been shocking to see girls rally together and be supportive and kind, and to see the cruel, aggressive and constant work boys exert to establish and maintain a pecking order and their place in it. (I just wrote basically the same thing on the special needs thread and it isn’t worth rephrasing) Girl moms talked for years about relational aggression, but now I think it’s who who are really pushing the boundaries of what that can look like.

We have multiple boys at our school leaving because they’ve basically been driven out by this alpha boy nonsense.

Not against you. I have the same observations

But why do we not believe boys have an emotional life as well as girls?

Because it's not fostered by their parents or society. My boys have an emotional life, because I'm raising them that way. I see other boys getting the message that aggression = good; empathy = weakness. It's sad.

Just because a boy uses anger as a masking emotion over other emotions doesn't mean he doesn't have an emotional life.

I'm female and do this, so I can attest to it. Literally talking about that in therapy the other day.

It literally means he's emotionally immature. Apparently you have this same type of immaturity. It's something we can work to learn, just like anything else. Girls (normally) get this from moms and friends, boys don't always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS’s friends, including those on his sports team, are not into this. Nice kids.

The girls in my DD’s class? Really awful and they get it from their moms.

So there’s that.

That’s actually really interesting, because in our grade with very badly behaved mean boys, it’s their moms who have the most social capital in the grade and are part of the more pretty/popular/rich parent clique. The moms of girls are more of a mixed group.

It’s almost like it varies across schools, grades and activities. Like making such broad general statements really isn’t useful at all.

Hmmm.

I think what people are saying is that the aggression by boys has escalated beyond what a normal and seems to be sanctioned parents in a way that it wasn’t in the past.

No one is arguing that girls aren’t badly behaved or that some kids are well behaved, just that one end of the bell curve of behavior seems to have changed significantly and for reasons that have to do with people’s specific parenting goals.

If only we had good role models for the boys to look up to.

This is a role for their fathers!!

[Anonymous]

I see this in rec sports with the 1st and 2nd grade boys. I want to stop the end of game handshakes because it seems like a contest of which boy can say the worst thing or inflict the most pain on the other kids. we've had some great experiences...but for kids this age I hoped it was a positive way to build skills and have fun...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP and I meant to add that the parents of these boys are perfectly happy with how they’re acting and there’s lots of talk about confidence or fake sympathy for boys who “can’t keep up with everyone else.”

My kids grew up with two of the worst bullies in the area where I live. They were known for their horrible behavior throughout the city I live in. Teachers at schools they did not attend knew about them. I knew their mothers well. In both cases the parents greatest desire was that their kids be popular. The other most important thing to both of these parents was that they would rather their kids be bullies than get bullied. When one of the kids was bullying my kid and I talked to the mom, she explained to me that it was too bad because popular kids were mean. The dads wanted the kids to be mean. A lot of parents think that teaching their kids to be mean makes them bully proof.

Both of these kids were hot shots in sports in elementary and their parents thought they would both be big basketball and football stars. They were neither. They barely got in to unimpressive colleges and are washouts. They were vile to so many kids but, in general, kids sucked up to them throughout high school because of their popularity. They are nobodies now and have multiple alcohol and reckless speeding convictions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see it too and I don’t get it. I am raising my boy to be kind and empathetic but I feel like many other parents are teaching their kids to be jerks. Even among so called “progressive” families we are witnessing the creation of bullies and aggressive/selfish behavior that is shocking but not corrected.

Are these the “progressive” families that have signs in their yards but don’t actually have any black neighbors?