Why do we tolerate trash talking and elitism as "boys will be boys" behavior?

[Anonymous]

I have two athletic boys. I have heard them and their carpool teammates complain about the behavior of an opposing player, but I haven't heard them randomly demonizing or trash talking others for no reason. But they are very good at their sports, so I don't think they see the need to diminish others to boost themselves in boy world. Honestly, these boys are so much nicer than boys from my generation. It's usually the parents that have lost the plot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are missing the "elitism" part of OP's comment.

This isn't about close friends ribbing each other because of that time one of them mispronounced "great" as "grafe" and then it winds up becoming an inside joke that is, yes, at your friend's expense but is really more about remembering how hard that made you all laugh when it happened.

This is about kids who say stuff to other kids like "whatever, you don't even have a PS5, you're lame." Or "haha Theo is slow, so glad we can do travel soccer now and don't have to play with him." Or "your parents are broke, those shoes look like you got them out of a garbage bin." None of this is friendly roasting. It's just rude, unkind, arrogant, elitist behavior. It is immaturity, but it's the kind that you have to intervene on early and often to curb them of this impulse to put others down in order to build themselves up.

It's fine for kids to make jokes and yes, sometimes they will make a joke thinking it's fine and instead they'll try to make a "grafe" style joke and instead their friend will cry because they are kids and that kid might not have realized we're all laughing together on this. That's normal.

But it is not normal and should not be acceptable for kids to put down other kids for their intelligence, looks, weight, SES level, or athletic ability. Anymore than it would be acceptable to make fun of a kid for their skin color. It's just a hard no. If your kid is making fun of a classmate for being fat or slow or dumb, your kid is being a jerk and you need to intervene and set them straight. Not send them to comedy school.

This +1

There’s a major difference between being a jerk who puts down others to make themself feel better, and friends who take jabs at each other. To an outside observer who happens to overhear— they might *seem* the same—but it’s really not.

But also kids can and do go a bit too far and hurt someone’s feelings unintentionally.

That’s where Larlo needs to stand up for himself and say something like “hey, that’s not cool bro. Can you not make a joke like that?” Even after the fact in a one on one conversation if the joke was initially in a group setting. Not sit there and ruminate after laughing it off—no body is a mind reader.

And then the kid who said the hurtful joke needs to apologize,, make clear they didn’t mean to offend, and then make a mental note that “Making a joke about Larlo and ‘____’ is off limits”. Not get defensive and play it off as “wow Larlo, you can’t take a joke. Get over it dude.”

These are good social skills that some kids might need to be taught and/or reminded of if they aren’t super socially savvy.

My kid lost and shifted friend groups a lot around age 11-12. The better athletes move up at this age and you are either HS team material or still rec. Many kids quit rec sports by middle school. Not all the trash talking kids move up. My kid went from the kid hearing a lot of trash talking kids to one of the better athletes at his school. I have tried to coach him to be kind. I don’t think or hope he doesn’t say mean things to the unathletic kids. I believe he doesn’t hang out with them so much in middle school. The athletic boys start hanging out together.

Exactly be best. Trash talk or die of embarrassment cause you are “still rec” (the horror!!!)🧟‍♂️

Well that’s pretty sarcastic, negative, judgmental and mean.

But your comment doesn’t bother me. It smells of insecurity, which I can understand, as feeling insecure is very human. It also seems like you’re struggling with something.

All of that said, I think there’s a decent chance you think you’re a good person. I can imagine you may have friends, and you might make jokes together about these sorts of things, maybe even making fun of the kids who believe in travel vs rec. It might come across as mean to some people, but it’s human for friends to understand each others’ insecurities and rather than figure them out, try to make some amorphous group — society? Trash talking kids? Feel bad about the pressure you feel.

Not every conversation has to be done in a perfectly therapeutic way, especially amongst kids, especially when grownups can’t model the same. Also who wants to be friends with someone who’s therapeutically empathetic all the time?

Correct it was BERY sarcastic but did you not notice that your adjective for rec had a judgmental modifier? I’m sure your attitude toward this trickles down to your kid. The rest of your post is an attempt to justify why you think that is okay.

PS I don’t think I’m nice especially on here. I do like to call out when people post things that have blatant hypocrisy in them.

Like when you said “still rec” and “I catch my kid being kind” consider yourself caught being unkind. And see where your biases may be passed on to your kid. Your words in your post belied your true feelings whatever you may say to your kid.

You’re wrong - she’s an angel, just with a mild intellectual impairment.

THAT’S roasting. It IS fun! Let’s hope PP way upthread has learned social skills. Or at least the difference between a malicious chat between kids in her Dc’s class and DCUM (spoiler: she replies “it’s the same.”)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are missing the "elitism" part of OP's comment.

This isn't about close friends ribbing each other because of that time one of them mispronounced "great" as "grafe" and then it winds up becoming an inside joke that is, yes, at your friend's expense but is really more about remembering how hard that made you all laugh when it happened.

This is about kids who say stuff to other kids like "whatever, you don't even have a PS5, you're lame." Or "haha Theo is slow, so glad we can do travel soccer now and don't have to play with him." Or "your parents are broke, those shoes look like you got them out of a garbage bin." None of this is friendly roasting. It's just rude, unkind, arrogant, elitist behavior. It is immaturity, but it's the kind that you have to intervene on early and often to curb them of this impulse to put others down in order to build themselves up.

It's fine for kids to make jokes and yes, sometimes they will make a joke thinking it's fine and instead they'll try to make a "grafe" style joke and instead their friend will cry because they are kids and that kid might not have realized we're all laughing together on this. That's normal.

But it is not normal and should not be acceptable for kids to put down other kids for their intelligence, looks, weight, SES level, or athletic ability. Anymore than it would be acceptable to make fun of a kid for their skin color. It's just a hard no. If your kid is making fun of a classmate for being fat or slow or dumb, your kid is being a jerk and you need to intervene and set them straight. Not send them to comedy school.

This +1

There’s a major difference between being a jerk who puts down others to make themself feel better, and friends who take jabs at each other. To an outside observer who happens to overhear— they might *seem* the same—but it’s really not.

But also kids can and do go a bit too far and hurt someone’s feelings unintentionally.

That’s where Larlo needs to stand up for himself and say something like “hey, that’s not cool bro. Can you not make a joke like that?” Even after the fact in a one on one conversation if the joke was initially in a group setting. Not sit there and ruminate after laughing it off—no body is a mind reader.

And then the kid who said the hurtful joke needs to apologize,, make clear they didn’t mean to offend, and then make a mental note that “Making a joke about Larlo and ‘____’ is off limits”. Not get defensive and play it off as “wow Larlo, you can’t take a joke. Get over it dude.”

These are good social skills that some kids might need to be taught and/or reminded of if they aren’t super socially savvy.

My kid lost and shifted friend groups a lot around age 11-12. The better athletes move up at this age and you are either HS team material or still rec. Many kids quit rec sports by middle school. Not all the trash talking kids move up. My kid went from the kid hearing a lot of trash talking kids to one of the better athletes at his school. I have tried to coach him to be kind. I don’t think or hope he doesn’t say mean things to the unathletic kids. I believe he doesn’t hang out with them so much in middle school. The athletic boys start hanging out together.

Exactly be best. Trash talk or die of embarrassment cause you are “still rec” (the horror!!!)🧟‍♂️

Well that’s pretty sarcastic, negative, judgmental and mean.

But your comment doesn’t bother me. It smells of insecurity, which I can understand, as feeling insecure is very human. It also seems like you’re struggling with something.

All of that said, I think there’s a decent chance you think you’re a good person. I can imagine you may have friends, and you might make jokes together about these sorts of things, maybe even making fun of the kids who believe in travel vs rec. It might come across as mean to some people, but it’s human for friends to understand each others’ insecurities and rather than figure them out, try to make some amorphous group — society? Trash talking kids? Feel bad about the pressure you feel.

Not every conversation has to be done in a perfectly therapeutic way, especially amongst kids, especially when grownups can’t model the same. Also who wants to be friends with someone who’s therapeutically empathetic all the time?

Correct it was BERY sarcastic but did you not notice that your adjective for rec had a judgmental modifier? I’m sure your attitude toward this trickles down to your kid. The rest of your post is an attempt to justify why you think that is okay.

PS I don’t think I’m nice especially on here. I do like to call out when people post things that have blatant hypocrisy in them.

Like when you said “still rec” and “I catch my kid being kind” consider yourself caught being unkind. And see where your biases may be passed on to your kid. Your words in your post belied your true feelings whatever you may say to your kid.

You’re wrong - she’s an angel, just with a mild intellectual impairment.

THAT’S roasting. It IS fun! Let’s hope PP way upthread has learned social skills. Or at least the difference between a malicious chat between kids in her Dc’s class and DCUM (spoiler: she replies “it’s the same.”)

No, I never claimed to be an angel. I also did not call children dickheads either to their face nor behind their backs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are missing the "elitism" part of OP's comment.

This isn't about close friends ribbing each other because of that time one of them mispronounced "great" as "grafe" and then it winds up becoming an inside joke that is, yes, at your friend's expense but is really more about remembering how hard that made you all laugh when it happened.

This is about kids who say stuff to other kids like "whatever, you don't even have a PS5, you're lame." Or "haha Theo is slow, so glad we can do travel soccer now and don't have to play with him." Or "your parents are broke, those shoes look like you got them out of a garbage bin." None of this is friendly roasting. It's just rude, unkind, arrogant, elitist behavior. It is immaturity, but it's the kind that you have to intervene on early and often to curb them of this impulse to put others down in order to build themselves up.

It's fine for kids to make jokes and yes, sometimes they will make a joke thinking it's fine and instead they'll try to make a "grafe" style joke and instead their friend will cry because they are kids and that kid might not have realized we're all laughing together on this. That's normal.

But it is not normal and should not be acceptable for kids to put down other kids for their intelligence, looks, weight, SES level, or athletic ability. Anymore than it would be acceptable to make fun of a kid for their skin color. It's just a hard no. If your kid is making fun of a classmate for being fat or slow or dumb, your kid is being a jerk and you need to intervene and set them straight. Not send them to comedy school.

This +1

There’s a major difference between being a jerk who puts down others to make themself feel better, and friends who take jabs at each other. To an outside observer who happens to overhear— they might *seem* the same—but it’s really not.

But also kids can and do go a bit too far and hurt someone’s feelings unintentionally.

That’s where Larlo needs to stand up for himself and say something like “hey, that’s not cool bro. Can you not make a joke like that?” Even after the fact in a one on one conversation if the joke was initially in a group setting. Not sit there and ruminate after laughing it off—no body is a mind reader.

And then the kid who said the hurtful joke needs to apologize,, make clear they didn’t mean to offend, and then make a mental note that “Making a joke about Larlo and ‘____’ is off limits”. Not get defensive and play it off as “wow Larlo, you can’t take a joke. Get over it dude.”

These are good social skills that some kids might need to be taught and/or reminded of if they aren’t super socially savvy.

My kid lost and shifted friend groups a lot around age 11-12. The better athletes move up at this age and you are either HS team material or still rec. Many kids quit rec sports by middle school. Not all the trash talking kids move up. My kid went from the kid hearing a lot of trash talking kids to one of the better athletes at his school. I have tried to coach him to be kind. I don’t think or hope he doesn’t say mean things to the unathletic kids. I believe he doesn’t hang out with them so much in middle school. The athletic boys start hanging out together.

Exactly be best. Trash talk or die of embarrassment cause you are “still rec” (the horror!!!)🧟‍♂️

Well that’s pretty sarcastic, negative, judgmental and mean.

But your comment doesn’t bother me. It smells of insecurity, which I can understand, as feeling insecure is very human. It also seems like you’re struggling with something.

All of that said, I think there’s a decent chance you think you’re a good person. I can imagine you may have friends, and you might make jokes together about these sorts of things, maybe even making fun of the kids who believe in travel vs rec. It might come across as mean to some people, but it’s human for friends to understand each others’ insecurities and rather than figure them out, try to make some amorphous group — society? Trash talking kids? Feel bad about the pressure you feel.

Not every conversation has to be done in a perfectly therapeutic way, especially amongst kids, especially when grownups can’t model the same. Also who wants to be friends with someone who’s therapeutically empathetic all the time?

Correct it was BERY sarcastic but did you not notice that your adjective for rec had a judgmental modifier? I’m sure your attitude toward this trickles down to your kid. The rest of your post is an attempt to justify why you think that is okay.

PS I don’t think I’m nice especially on here. I do like to call out when people post things that have blatant hypocrisy in them.

Like when you said “still rec” and “I catch my kid being kind” consider yourself caught being unkind. And see where your biases may be passed on to your kid. Your words in your post belied your true feelings whatever you may say to your kid.

You’re wrong - she’s an angel, just with a mild intellectual impairment.

THAT’S roasting. It IS fun! Let’s hope PP way upthread has learned social skills. Or at least the difference between a malicious chat between kids in her Dc’s class and DCUM (spoiler: she replies “it’s the same.”)

No, I never claimed to be an angel. I also did not call children dickheads either to their face nor behind their backs.

DP here. There are some boys who really do look to be future adult douchebags. Come on. They exist as adults and they started somewhere.

I have one son whose friend group does a lot of trash talking. My son is one of the better athletes. I told him there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. I have tried to coach him to be the kind that others admire and look up to, not the kind who everyone dislikes and wishes bad upon. He does not hang out with the nice boys.

My other son hangs out with the nicer smarter group who also are better athletes than the other son whose friends talk a lot of trash. Even in my son’s nicer group, there is a lot of teasing and roasting, although it does not seem malicious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are missing the "elitism" part of OP's comment.

This isn't about close friends ribbing each other because of that time one of them mispronounced "great" as "grafe" and then it winds up becoming an inside joke that is, yes, at your friend's expense but is really more about remembering how hard that made you all laugh when it happened.

This is about kids who say stuff to other kids like "whatever, you don't even have a PS5, you're lame." Or "haha Theo is slow, so glad we can do travel soccer now and don't have to play with him." Or "your parents are broke, those shoes look like you got them out of a garbage bin." None of this is friendly roasting. It's just rude, unkind, arrogant, elitist behavior. It is immaturity, but it's the kind that you have to intervene on early and often to curb them of this impulse to put others down in order to build themselves up.

It's fine for kids to make jokes and yes, sometimes they will make a joke thinking it's fine and instead they'll try to make a "grafe" style joke and instead their friend will cry because they are kids and that kid might not have realized we're all laughing together on this. That's normal.

But it is not normal and should not be acceptable for kids to put down other kids for their intelligence, looks, weight, SES level, or athletic ability. Anymore than it would be acceptable to make fun of a kid for their skin color. It's just a hard no. If your kid is making fun of a classmate for being fat or slow or dumb, your kid is being a jerk and you need to intervene and set them straight. Not send them to comedy school.

This +1

There’s a major difference between being a jerk who puts down others to make themself feel better, and friends who take jabs at each other. To an outside observer who happens to overhear— they might *seem* the same—but it’s really not.

But also kids can and do go a bit too far and hurt someone’s feelings unintentionally.

That’s where Larlo needs to stand up for himself and say something like “hey, that’s not cool bro. Can you not make a joke like that?” Even after the fact in a one on one conversation if the joke was initially in a group setting. Not sit there and ruminate after laughing it off—no body is a mind reader.

And then the kid who said the hurtful joke needs to apologize,, make clear they didn’t mean to offend, and then make a mental note that “Making a joke about Larlo and ‘____’ is off limits”. Not get defensive and play it off as “wow Larlo, you can’t take a joke. Get over it dude.”

These are good social skills that some kids might need to be taught and/or reminded of if they aren’t super socially savvy.

My kid lost and shifted friend groups a lot around age 11-12. The better athletes move up at this age and you are either HS team material or still rec. Many kids quit rec sports by middle school. Not all the trash talking kids move up. My kid went from the kid hearing a lot of trash talking kids to one of the better athletes at his school. I have tried to coach him to be kind. I don’t think or hope he doesn’t say mean things to the unathletic kids. I believe he doesn’t hang out with them so much in middle school. The athletic boys start hanging out together.

Exactly be best. Trash talk or die of embarrassment cause you are “still rec” (the horror!!!)🧟‍♂️

Well that’s pretty sarcastic, negative, judgmental and mean.

But your comment doesn’t bother me. It smells of insecurity, which I can understand, as feeling insecure is very human. It also seems like you’re struggling with something.

All of that said, I think there’s a decent chance you think you’re a good person. I can imagine you may have friends, and you might make jokes together about these sorts of things, maybe even making fun of the kids who believe in travel vs rec. It might come across as mean to some people, but it’s human for friends to understand each others’ insecurities and rather than figure them out, try to make some amorphous group — society? Trash talking kids? Feel bad about the pressure you feel.

Not every conversation has to be done in a perfectly therapeutic way, especially amongst kids, especially when grownups can’t model the same. Also who wants to be friends with someone who’s therapeutically empathetic all the time?

Correct it was BERY sarcastic but did you not notice that your adjective for rec had a judgmental modifier? I’m sure your attitude toward this trickles down to your kid. The rest of your post is an attempt to justify why you think that is okay.

PS I don’t think I’m nice especially on here. I do like to call out when people post things that have blatant hypocrisy in them.

Like when you said “still rec” and “I catch my kid being kind” consider yourself caught being unkind. And see where your biases may be passed on to your kid. Your words in your post belied your true feelings whatever you may say to your kid.

You’re wrong - she’s an angel, just with a mild intellectual impairment.

THAT’S roasting. It IS fun! Let’s hope PP way upthread has learned social skills. Or at least the difference between a malicious chat between kids in her Dc’s class and DCUM (spoiler: she replies “it’s the same.”)

No, I never claimed to be an angel. I also did not call children dickheads either to their face nor behind their backs.

So you’re raising said dickheads, or doing a piss-poor job of white knighting on said dickheads’s behalf in favor of roasting here?

Please make it make sense and give me my flowers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are missing the "elitism" part of OP's comment.

This isn't about close friends ribbing each other because of that time one of them mispronounced "great" as "grafe" and then it winds up becoming an inside joke that is, yes, at your friend's expense but is really more about remembering how hard that made you all laugh when it happened.

This is about kids who say stuff to other kids like "whatever, you don't even have a PS5, you're lame." Or "haha Theo is slow, so glad we can do travel soccer now and don't have to play with him." Or "your parents are broke, those shoes look like you got them out of a garbage bin." None of this is friendly roasting. It's just rude, unkind, arrogant, elitist behavior. It is immaturity, but it's the kind that you have to intervene on early and often to curb them of this impulse to put others down in order to build themselves up.

It's fine for kids to make jokes and yes, sometimes they will make a joke thinking it's fine and instead they'll try to make a "grafe" style joke and instead their friend will cry because they are kids and that kid might not have realized we're all laughing together on this. That's normal.

But it is not normal and should not be acceptable for kids to put down other kids for their intelligence, looks, weight, SES level, or athletic ability. Anymore than it would be acceptable to make fun of a kid for their skin color. It's just a hard no. If your kid is making fun of a classmate for being fat or slow or dumb, your kid is being a jerk and you need to intervene and set them straight. Not send them to comedy school.

This +1

There’s a major difference between being a jerk who puts down others to make themself feel better, and friends who take jabs at each other. To an outside observer who happens to overhear— they might *seem* the same—but it’s really not.

But also kids can and do go a bit too far and hurt someone’s feelings unintentionally.

That’s where Larlo needs to stand up for himself and say something like “hey, that’s not cool bro. Can you not make a joke like that?” Even after the fact in a one on one conversation if the joke was initially in a group setting. Not sit there and ruminate after laughing it off—no body is a mind reader.

And then the kid who said the hurtful joke needs to apologize,, make clear they didn’t mean to offend, and then make a mental note that “Making a joke about Larlo and ‘____’ is off limits”. Not get defensive and play it off as “wow Larlo, you can’t take a joke. Get over it dude.”

These are good social skills that some kids might need to be taught and/or reminded of if they aren’t super socially savvy.

My kid lost and shifted friend groups a lot around age 11-12. The better athletes move up at this age and you are either HS team material or still rec. Many kids quit rec sports by middle school. Not all the trash talking kids move up. My kid went from the kid hearing a lot of trash talking kids to one of the better athletes at his school. I have tried to coach him to be kind. I don’t think or hope he doesn’t say mean things to the unathletic kids. I believe he doesn’t hang out with them so much in middle school. The athletic boys start hanging out together.

Exactly be best. Trash talk or die of embarrassment cause you are “still rec” (the horror!!!)🧟‍♂️

Well that’s pretty sarcastic, negative, judgmental and mean.

But your comment doesn’t bother me. It smells of insecurity, which I can understand, as feeling insecure is very human. It also seems like you’re struggling with something.

All of that said, I think there’s a decent chance you think you’re a good person. I can imagine you may have friends, and you might make jokes together about these sorts of things, maybe even making fun of the kids who believe in travel vs rec. It might come across as mean to some people, but it’s human for friends to understand each others’ insecurities and rather than figure them out, try to make some amorphous group — society? Trash talking kids? Feel bad about the pressure you feel.

Not every conversation has to be done in a perfectly therapeutic way, especially amongst kids, especially when grownups can’t model the same. Also who wants to be friends with someone who’s therapeutically empathetic all the time?

Correct it was BERY sarcastic but did you not notice that your adjective for rec had a judgmental modifier? I’m sure your attitude toward this trickles down to your kid. The rest of your post is an attempt to justify why you think that is okay.

PS I don’t think I’m nice especially on here. I do like to call out when people post things that have blatant hypocrisy in them.

Like when you said “still rec” and “I catch my kid being kind” consider yourself caught being unkind. And see where your biases may be passed on to your kid. Your words in your post belied your true feelings whatever you may say to your kid.

You’re wrong - she’s an angel, just with a mild intellectual impairment.

THAT’S roasting. It IS fun! Let’s hope PP way upthread has learned social skills. Or at least the difference between a malicious chat between kids in her Dc’s class and DCUM (spoiler: she replies “it’s the same.”)

No, I never claimed to be an angel. I also did not call children dickheads either to their face nor behind their backs.

DP here. There are some boys who really do look to be future adult douchebags. Come on. They exist as adults and they started somewhere.

I have one son whose friend group does a lot of trash talking. My son is one of the better athletes. I told him there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance. I have tried to coach him to be the kind that others admire and look up to, not the kind who everyone dislikes and wishes bad upon. He does not hang out with the nice boys.

My other son hangs out with the nicer smarter group who also are better athletes than the other son whose friends talk a lot of trash. Even in my son’s nicer group, there is a lot of teasing and roasting, although it does not seem malicious.

Agree with all of this. This is different from all kids who roast being dickheads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can try to explain the weather to the people who you see fruitlessly arguing with it, but some of those people are going to think you’re holding back the sunshine.

I was a lackluster athlete whose kid was hurt by roasts. By I’m not going to switch my kids’ schools over it, because roasts are there too. I’m not going to switch countries, because I’ve lived all over the world, and it’s global.

Go ahead and blame, judge and be angry. It’s still going to rain.

Personally I think it’s better to understand the weather, predict it and grab an umbrella, but I guess that’s just me.

Back up, we got a metaphor maker up in here!

This might be the best post in this thread. An unkind roast from someone who thinks all unkind roasts have to stop.

Ooh, we gotta thin-skinned mamma thinking she’s making a point, look at the steam puffing out of her! You can hear the gears grinding from space.

Please feel free to use bold, italic, asterisks, however you process, to show where Mama Bad Metaphor was critiqued for lack of football skills, being a bad runner, having poor parents, not having a real Stanley cup or Lululemon bag, getting only into not competitive schools, her appearance, or any of the other scenarios under discussion.

My DC don’t “roast,” yet it is legit hilarious how offended you claim to be. Parent your little dickheads. Try.

Guess this snarky poster missed where everyone in this thread has pretty much agreed that being a jerk isn’t okay—and the people trying to explain that roasting DOES NOT include any of the things on that list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because boys WILL be boys. And girls WILL be girls. The meme gets it right.
Two boys talking:
Boy 1: "Fake insult"
Boy 2: "Fake insult"

Two girls talking:
Girl 1: "Fake compliment"
Girl 2: "Fake compliment"

I'll hang with the boys any day.

This.

Is why I prefer male friends over other women.
Women are catty and downright evil much more than men are.
Men are more blunt and straightforward, at least the masculine manly types usually are moreso.

So what you are saying is boys and men can “trash talk” it’s what they do. But girls don’t get to do the same? Girls are catty and evil while boys are just having fun?

Not PP. It sounds like PP is saying she finds men easier than women. She’s allowed to think it’s hard to have female friends.

You have poor listening skills and your interpretation is mean. You fit the stereotype.

What PP “is saying” is that she’s a Pick Me Girl..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

You think people should behave like characters on sitcoms? You think that's the standard for human interaction?

Those aren't real people. Characters on sitcoms make fun of each other constantly because the people who write sitcoms are under pressure to ensure there are at least 3 jokes on every page of script. Literally, they count them, and they get notes from networks about upping just keep rates.

Jokes at another person's expense are mean, but easy. So if you need to produce humor, it's an easy target. Easier than social commentary. And much easier for performers than broad comedy or physical humor. It's also cheap.

So yes, people in sitcoms relentlessly "roast" each other and never get too mad about it (unless their anger might be funny). Because they aren't real people and because their whole job is to produce a laugh.

IRL, people have feelings, and that's mean.

Yes in my real life my friends, family and I are accepting of our flaws and make fun of ourselves and each other. It is not mean when it makes us feel good, understood and accepted.

It is mean when it hurts someone’s feelings. This is also how inner circles develop. You can’t be friends with someone who calls this blanket mean, especially when both recipient and deliverer partake joyfully.

Kids in 2nd grade don’t have inner circles. They don’t know what will make one kid feel great will make another cry sometimes until it happens. When they make mistakes, they should absolutely apologize. They sometimes don’t know how sensitive they are until they themselves have hurt feelings and cry.

You are assuming what you do is universal and accepted, and it's not.

Also, even in functional in-groups where teasing us ok, the precursor is love and full acceptance of one another. And enough knowledge to know what is off limits and not, plus how to repair when a line is crossed. It takes deep love and trust.

How do you build that live and trust? Kindness and empathy. So if you want your kids to come say understand how to tease a very close friend it family member correctly, you encourage kindness and empathy and discourage meanness. Their relationships will naturally become more sophisticated later, but the foundation isn't "roasting ." You start with kindness.

No, I’m not assuming what I do, how I feel, or how my relationships develop are universal. You are.

You’re assuming you know how 8yos feel enough to not tolerate roasting point blank. I’m saying that there are many times when roasting is wrong and inappropriate, and that kids make mistakes. And that the mistakes are developmental.

But you don’t have to take my word for it. There are child development experts and therapists who can help explain.

Your argument is that teasing and "roasting" (which is just a euphemism for making fun of someone) is normal and valuable in relationships. That's a value judgment you think is universally correct but what many people on this thread are saying is that they don't like it, not even in adults, not in close relationships.

And then you are passive aggressive about it, claiming people who do this "know how to laugh at themselves." That's a separate issue. All the kindest people I know, who do not go around taking the piss out of all their family and friends, have the ability to laugh at themselves. It's probably one of the reasons they are so kind -- they are accepting of themselves and their own faults and it makes them accepting of others faults as well. Making fun of someone because they struggle with something is not accepting. It's unkind.

You are just inventing a bunch of excuses for mean behavior and then acting like other people are simply not as evolved as you are. But what was your example of why this behavior is normal? Television sitcoms. You think because the characters on Friends or Modern Family are constantly making fun of each other, that's what a loving, accepting family or friend group looks like. That's fiction! IRL, close family and friends don't incessantly make jokes at one another's expense because that is mean, and functional relationships don't tolerate a lot of meanness in them.

And now you're claiming to be some kind of childhood development expert? Good lord. Parent your kids. Tell them it is unkind to make fun of other children. You don't need to sign them up for "roasting lessons" so that they learn to make fun of people in socially acceptable ways. That's a good way to turn your kid into a stand up comic, but it's not a good way to raise a kind, upstanding person.

You need to grow up.

Nailed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have personally seen this in girls as well as boys. I can't tell if it's just the culture at our elementary school or what, but the kids are super mean to each other (we are leaving after this year, for several reasons, but honestly this aspect of the culture is part of it).

I have seen boys and girls "roast" other kids for offenses like needing after school tutoring, being slower than other kids in gym, not being familiar with some tv show/movie/video game, having parents who aren't as well off. My kids have also told me about teasing that happens because a child expresses any ambition (i.e. making fun of a kid who says they want to be a doctor when they grow up) or for being unfamiliar with terms related to drugs or sex (yes, I know, again -- we are leaving).

Some of the kids also attempt to roast adults.

It seems to start around 2nd grade at the school (our oldest is in 2nd) though I saw some of it in 1st. However, in 1st, teachers would say something about it and at least some of the other parents would also speak up. Now no one seems to care. Some adults seem to think it's a positive thing, a way for kids to show confidence and be "resilient."

I'm totally baffled. At first I was shocked but now I'm just confused. Why would you raise kids like this? Separately, teachers and some parents complain about "behavioral issues" at school, by which they mean kids who push or shove or make scenes in class. To me it's all obviously connected. These kids are not being taught to be respectful of other people, or that their actions can negatively effect others and they have a responsibility to work on themselves and be better.

Do I tease my kids? Yes. Do my friends make fun of me? Yes. Do my kids make fun of their friends and vice versa? Yes.

The problem is not teasing and roasting. The problem is adults not teaching kids to do it well, so kids are on their own to figure it out on the playground away from adults.

It’s really hard for kids to learn how to do. Sometimes they don’t mean to hurt a feeling but they do. Sometimes they feel hurt but they smile. There are false signals thrown in. It’s all hard to figure out.

Don’t look at 60 roasting kids and assume they and their parents are all mean people who are ok with being mean. Those parents may be working on a skill set that frankly, may benefit your child to learn too.

When kids (or adults) are making fun of other kids for being "less than" in some way (struggling academically, being less athletic, having parents with less money, having fewer material things or as many experiences), they are being mean.

There is not some special skill for making fun of people for being or having less than you. This is mean, bullying behavior, no matter the age if the person doing it or how clever they are in doing it.

The proper response to a kid doing this is "don't, that is mean."

It's not "oh they just haven't figured out how to do this the way adults do it, where they couch it as a joke so they can pretend they don't mean it, or couch it as concern so it seems like they are trying to help, or they only discuss it behind your back so they can pretend never to have said it at all."

Did you watch the Friends clip? Do you ever watch Modern Family? People make fun of each other for something they might be sensitive about all the time.

Some adults hear kids do this and call it all mean. All that does is make the kids do it in secret. Sort of the same way girls group up and whisper in secret, a bunch of things that are snarky but a bunch that are not.

Kids who have adults figuring out whether their trash talk was out of jealousy or superiority or fun have a much better chance of teaching their kids to be good people (and good roasters).

You think people should behave like characters on sitcoms? You think that's the standard for human interaction?

Those aren't real people. Characters on sitcoms make fun of each other constantly because the people who write sitcoms are under pressure to ensure there are at least 3 jokes on every page of script. Literally, they count them, and they get notes from networks about upping just keep rates.

Jokes at another person's expense are mean, but easy. So if you need to produce humor, it's an easy target. Easier than social commentary. And much easier for performers than broad comedy or physical humor. It's also cheap.

So yes, people in sitcoms relentlessly "roast" each other and never get too mad about it (unless their anger might be funny). Because they aren't real people and because their whole job is to produce a laugh.

IRL, people have feelings, and that's mean.

Yes in my real life my friends, family and I are accepting of our flaws and make fun of ourselves and each other. It is not mean when it makes us feel good, understood and accepted.

It is mean when it hurts someone’s feelings. This is also how inner circles develop. You can’t be friends with someone who calls this blanket mean, especially when both recipient and deliverer partake joyfully.

Kids in 2nd grade don’t have inner circles. They don’t know what will make one kid feel great will make another cry sometimes until it happens. When they make mistakes, they should absolutely apologize. They sometimes don’t know how sensitive they are until they themselves have hurt feelings and cry.

You are assuming what you do is universal and accepted, and it's not.

Also, even in functional in-groups where teasing us ok, the precursor is love and full acceptance of one another. And enough knowledge to know what is off limits and not, plus how to repair when a line is crossed. It takes deep love and trust.

How do you build that live and trust? Kindness and empathy. So if you want your kids to come say understand how to tease a very close friend it family member correctly, you encourage kindness and empathy and discourage meanness. Their relationships will naturally become more sophisticated later, but the foundation isn't "roasting ." You start with kindness.

No, I’m not assuming what I do, how I feel, or how my relationships develop are universal. You are.

You’re assuming you know how 8yos feel enough to not tolerate roasting point blank. I’m saying that there are many times when roasting is wrong and inappropriate, and that kids make mistakes. And that the mistakes are developmental.

But you don’t have to take my word for it. There are child development experts and therapists who can help explain.

Your argument is that teasing and "roasting" (which is just a euphemism for making fun of someone) is normal and valuable in relationships. That's a value judgment you think is universally correct but what many people on this thread are saying is that they don't like it, not even in adults, not in close relationships.

And then you are passive aggressive about it, claiming people who do this "know how to laugh at themselves." That's a separate issue. All the kindest people I know, who do not go around taking the piss out of all their family and friends, have the ability to laugh at themselves. It's probably one of the reasons they are so kind -- they are accepting of themselves and their own faults and it makes them accepting of others faults as well. Making fun of someone because they struggle with something is not accepting. It's unkind.

You are just inventing a bunch of excuses for mean behavior and then acting like other people are simply not as evolved as you are. But what was your example of why this behavior is normal? Television sitcoms. You think because the characters on Friends or Modern Family are constantly making fun of each other, that's what a loving, accepting family or friend group looks like. That's fiction! IRL, close family and friends don't incessantly make jokes at one another's expense because that is mean, and functional relationships don't tolerate a lot of meanness in them.

And now you're claiming to be some kind of childhood development expert? Good lord. Parent your kids. Tell them it is unkind to make fun of other children. You don't need to sign them up for "roasting lessons" so that they learn to make fun of people in socially acceptable ways. That's a good way to turn your kid into a stand up comic, but it's not a good way to raise a kind, upstanding person.

You need to grow up.

Nailed it.

PP essentially said

Teasing and "roasting" is normal and sometimes valuable in some relationships. It is sometimes malicious and sometimes not.

It is not universally shut down because of the sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can try to explain the weather to the people who you see fruitlessly arguing with it, but some of those people are going to think you’re holding back the sunshine.

I was a lackluster athlete whose kid was hurt by roasts. By I’m not going to switch my kids’ schools over it, because roasts are there too. I’m not going to switch countries, because I’ve lived all over the world, and it’s global.

Go ahead and blame, judge and be angry. It’s still going to rain.

Personally I think it’s better to understand the weather, predict it and grab an umbrella, but I guess that’s just me.

Back up, we got a metaphor maker up in here!

This might be the best post in this thread. An unkind roast from someone who thinks all unkind roasts have to stop.

Ooh, we gotta thin-skinned mamma thinking she’s making a point, look at the steam puffing out of her! You can hear the gears grinding from space.

Please feel free to use bold, italic, asterisks, however you process, to show where Mama Bad Metaphor was critiqued for lack of football skills, being a bad runner, having poor parents, not having a real Stanley cup or Lululemon bag, getting only into not competitive schools, her appearance, or any of the other scenarios under discussion.

My DC don’t “roast,” yet it is legit hilarious how offended you claim to be. Parent your little dickheads. Try.

Guess this snarky poster missed where everyone in this thread has pretty much agreed that being a jerk isn’t okay—and the people trying to explain that roasting DOES NOT include any of the things on that list.

I would edit that to read that everyone has said hurt feelings and malicious roasting are not ok. The problem is when someone presumes to know someone else’s feelings.

My kid has won international robotics competition. He does not care about his athletic skills. He does care deeply about Marvel characters.

He gets hurt by roasts about marvel but not about being a slow runner or bad football player. His friends all know that. He also does not care about roasts about his robotics skills for very different reasons. Athletics because he doesn’t care; robotics, because he’s confident. As insiders, they roast in all the right ways. He has many top athlete friends.

Outsiders should not judge these kids. They shouldn’t say that my kid needs to grow thicker skin about Marvel or that the kids teasing him are jerks.

The rule for a jerk is when you don’t care about someone’s feelings. These kids have feelings. When kids have hurt feelings they need to be addressed.

When they don’t, it’s not a problem, even when 3rd party mom says it is.

Both are true Z

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you not attend school? This is something that was happening when I went to elementary school in the late 70's/ early 80's. It most likely has happened for hundreds of years.

It’s almost like Darwin was on to something

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can try to explain the weather to the people who you see fruitlessly arguing with it, but some of those people are going to think you’re holding back the sunshine.

I was a lackluster athlete whose kid was hurt by roasts. By I’m not going to switch my kids’ schools over it, because roasts are there too. I’m not going to switch countries, because I’ve lived all over the world, and it’s global.

Go ahead and blame, judge and be angry. It’s still going to rain.

Personally I think it’s better to understand the weather, predict it and grab an umbrella, but I guess that’s just me.

Back up, we got a metaphor maker up in here!

This might be the best post in this thread. An unkind roast from someone who thinks all unkind roasts have to stop.

Ooh, we gotta thin-skinned mamma thinking she’s making a point, look at the steam puffing out of her! You can hear the gears grinding from space.

Please feel free to use bold, italic, asterisks, however you process, to show where Mama Bad Metaphor was critiqued for lack of football skills, being a bad runner, having poor parents, not having a real Stanley cup or Lululemon bag, getting only into not competitive schools, her appearance, or any of the other scenarios under discussion.

My DC don’t “roast,” yet it is legit hilarious how offended you claim to be. Parent your little dickheads. Try.

Guess this snarky poster missed where everyone in this thread has pretty much agreed that being a jerk isn’t okay—and the people trying to explain that roasting DOES NOT include any of the things on that list.

I would edit that to read that everyone has said hurt feelings and malicious roasting are not ok. The problem is when someone presumes to know someone else’s feelings.

My kid has won international robotics competition. He does not care about his athletic skills. He does care deeply about Marvel characters.

He gets hurt by roasts about marvel but not about being a slow runner or bad football player. His friends all know that. He also does not care about roasts about his robotics skills for very different reasons. Athletics because he doesn’t care; robotics, because he’s confident. As insiders, they roast in all the right ways. He has many top athlete friends.

Outsiders should not judge these kids. They shouldn’t say that my kid needs to grow thicker skin about Marvel or that the kids teasing him are jerks.

The rule for a jerk is when you don’t care about someone’s feelings. These kids have feelings. When kids have hurt feelings they need to be addressed.

When they don’t, it’s not a problem, even when 3rd party mom says it is.

Both are true Z

I would also advise when talking to others: when my kid feels hurt, I tell him to tell the other kid. If the other kid doesn’t listen, I tell him to tell the teacher. If it’s a big enough thing, tell the counselor. Someone will understand and listen.

Things go sideways when instead of a hurt child having his hurt feelings helped, mom or dad go rogue and decide all roasting needs to stop or all roasters are dickheads. The debate turns into this one, and no one is helped, not even their own hurt child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I see it too and I don’t get it. I am raising my boy to be kind and empathetic but I feel like many other parents are teaching their kids to be jerks. Even among so called “progressive” families we are witnessing the creation of bullies and aggressive/selfish behavior that is shocking but not corrected.

How old is your boy? I’m doing the same and he was bored for his kindness by several teachers. The school environment matters too. We switched from an inclusive small school to a top public and DS has brought home so much slang and jerky one upping behavior. We model and talk about kindness at home, but he is at school for 7 hours a day around this stuff. Also shocked at language and attitudes on kids TV shows. We no longer watch tv.

[Anonymous]

^ he was NOTED for his kindness not bored !