Vance shunned by Pope Francis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

I *hope* his detached message belies his moral conflict.

I doubt it because I know that JD has sold his soul but somehow , as much as I think I have given up on him, I notice by my never-ending disappointment that I must be holding on to a tiny bit of hope that he is better than the sociopaths like Trump and Steven Miller.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like Trump, everything Vance touches dies. Poor Pope. Having to spend a few of your last precious moments on earth making nice with the likes of Vance.

If only they weren't immune to this effect on each other...


(booking my own ticket to El Salvador now.)

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:More lies from DCUM

Pope Francis looks like he wants to run. But he's a good christian and being kind.

I applaud Francis for meeting with Vance. I believe Vance’s conversion was shallow at best, fake at worst. Meeting with the Pope hopefully could have confronted JD with the understanding that he is not in fact superior to everyone else and is morally accountable for his actions.

+1 I hope Vance felt as small and fake as he is in the presence of a kind and morally upright human being.

I hope the Pope talked to him about the cruelty and sin of cutting off aid to Africa and using governmental power to deliberately sow fear.

Doubt it.

Why do you doubt it? This Pope is very outspoken.

Yeah. Super outspoken on the 2024 election, for example. When, as you might remember, he said Harris and Trump were equally bad choices, and American Catholics should figure it out for themselves. Because abortion and Project 2025 were equally bad sins in his opinion. Because an authoritarian who openly degrades the least of our people, and abuses our poor, our migrants, our citizens in need of food and education and shelter and compassion and empathy and allowing women making their own medical decisions are equal evils. They are not. This life sometimes gives you two bad options and says choose one. And throwing up your hands and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is cowardice. And I do expect better from the Pope than than “she was bad on one issue so nope, let’s not speak out again a promise of harming millions of immigrants, people on Medicaid, poor people, federal employees, etc, etc.

I respected this Pope. And had a lot of hope for him. But come on man. If you really want to walk the Catholic social justice walk, then you are in favor of universal pre-K, universal healthcare, a strong social safety net, USAID and are an AOC/ Bernie socialist. Because that’s what Jesus taught. And you can disagree with these positions. A lot of my Catholic family does. They conspicuously to the church of Sunday, eat fish on Friday and the rest of the week say such gross things about the poor, immigrants, trans people that my college aged kids don’t want to be near them. But they are hypocrites and judge others in a way Jesus would never condone. You can’t disagree with a strong social safety net and tout your Catholic bona fides. And apparently, because I had a wanted ectopic pregnancy and therefore having needed an abortion, I’m going to he11. [b]My parents say so, and 20 years later still tell everyone how sad they are I won’t be in heaven with them. Because abortion is a mortal sin— one of the only ones you can’t atone for.[b]

So, I’m now a lapsed Catholic. Because I don’t believe in a church that would have me die at 30 for a futile pregnancy. And I don’t know what JD Vance is. But he certainly didn’t convert because he believes in most of the tenants of Catholicism.

But spare me cheers for the Pope snubbing JD. In October 2024, when ihis words might have mattered, this Pope was silent.

It is very sad that you’ve been through what you say you’ve been through.

But (1) removal of the tube containing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion as the Church defines one, and the Church specifically teaches that such surgery is, pursuant to “the principle of double effect,” not sinful; and (2) mortal sins, specifically including deliberate procured abortion, can be forgiven in confession if the pursing is truly sorry and has a firm purpose of amendment.

PP here and two things. Scratch that. Three. One, that’s your interpretation. And a valid one, but not the only one. I left the Church over this, so I did my homework, and discovered that… the Catholic Church is a mess on ectopic pregnancy, and you will get opinions from it’s still abortion, and you die now for the reward of heaven, to yours, to threading the needle with not using drugs for early ectopics and removing the tube with the fetus intact and having them die a natural death in the tube apart from your body before touching them— but putting the mother through invasive, unnecessary surgery and destroying her future fertility for the same outcome. I do know this— I would not want to end up in a Catholic Hospital with an ectopic. Because you really don’t know what rules a given hospital is playing by.

Two— and this is huge. I was 30 with two young kids and was bleeding out in an ER. I’m not sorry about a d@mn thing. I mean, I mourned the loss of the child, just like when I miscarried a prior pregnancy. I cried for a long time. Still do 20 years later. But I am not sorry that I accepted medical care while I was literally dying. Because no matter what I did, there would not have been a baby. It sucks, but it’s true. The fetus wasn’t viable. And I did lose the tube. And never could have the third baby I wanted. Which also sucked. But at least I was around to raise the two beautiful children I had. I will not apologize for that choice. And I don’t believe in a God that wants me to ask for forgiveness for that decision.

And three— and this is also huge. The Pope said before the 2024 election that Trump and Harris were morally equivalent choices and American Catholics should decide for themselves which was worse, or whether to vote at all. Certainly people like my parents took that and ran with “the Pope isn’t against MAGA”. In a close election, that mattered, especially since some swing states had high Catholic populations. He doesn’t now get to pretend he didn’t play a role in giving us Trump.

Ectopic pregnancy has been the textbook example used to explain moral principle of double effect since theology textbooks were exclusively in Latin.

That does not mean, of course, that one will never get an erroneous opinion from somewhere, particularly from an uninformed or misinformed lay person, or even a poorly trained cleric, but the longevity of this specific teaching belies your assertion that the Church “is a mess on ectopic pregnancy.”

The loss of one fallopian tube does not, as you know, “destroy future fertility” in an otherwise normal individual.

Again, there being no sin in the surgical treatment of an ectopic pregnancy there would be nothing to ask forgiveness for, and there would have been no argument in favor of having the mother of two existing children risk dying in such a case.

You left out the actually important part of the story. There ARE some Catholics that say using methotrexate to spare the fallopian tube is an abortion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

wtf. This is a horrible tweet. His “heart goes out to Christians”? And then a line about remembering him as if he were some old coworker?

JD may have converted but he has zero cultural or emotional connection to Catholicism.

[Anonymous]

OMG he killed the pope. His toxic stench permeates everything!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

wtf. This is a horrible tweet. His “heart goes out to Christians”? And then a line about remembering him as if he were some old coworker?

JD may have converted but he has zero cultural or emotional connection to Catholicism.

It’s as if a waspy Protestant intern drafted that tweet in the early morning. No mention of the word “Catholic” which is kinda astounding.

It was clearly written by someone with no strong emotional linkage to the Catholic Church or reverence for the Pope.

And I say this as a lapsed Lutheran!

[Anonymous]

The tweet is giving Judas vibes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

wtf. This is a horrible tweet. His “heart goes out to Christians”? And then a line about remembering him as if he were some old coworker?

JD may have converted but he has zero cultural or emotional connection to Catholicism.

Pope Francis wasn’t MAGA enough, MAGAs have their Orange God so who needs the Pope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG he killed the pope. His toxic stench permeates everything!

That’s my thought. Meeting with the Antichrist Jr killed the Pope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG he killed the pope. His toxic stench permeates everything!

That’s my thought. Meeting with the Antichrist Jr killed the Pope.

Exactly.

Vice President JD Vance literally murdered the Pope.

This actually happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More lies from DCUM

Pope Francis looks like he wants to run. But he's a good christian and being kind.

I applaud Francis for meeting with Vance. I believe Vance’s conversion was shallow at best, fake at worst. Meeting with the Pope hopefully could have confronted JD with the understanding that he is not in fact superior to everyone else and is morally accountable for his actions.

+1 I hope Vance felt as small and fake as he is in the presence of a kind and morally upright human being.

I hope the Pope talked to him about the cruelty and sin of cutting off aid to Africa and using governmental power to deliberately sow fear.

Doubt it.

Why do you doubt it? This Pope is very outspoken.

Yeah. Super outspoken on the 2024 election, for example. When, as you might remember, he said Harris and Trump were equally bad choices, and American Catholics should figure it out for themselves. Because abortion and Project 2025 were equally bad sins in his opinion. Because an authoritarian who openly degrades the least of our people, and abuses our poor, our migrants, our citizens in need of food and education and shelter and compassion and empathy and allowing women making their own medical decisions are equal evils. They are not. This life sometimes gives you two bad options and says choose one. And throwing up your hands and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is cowardice. And I do expect better from the Pope than than “she was bad on one issue so nope, let’s not speak out again a promise of harming millions of immigrants, people on Medicaid, poor people, federal employees, etc, etc.

I respected this Pope. And had a lot of hope for him. But come on man. If you really want to walk the Catholic social justice walk, then you are in favor of universal pre-K, universal healthcare, a strong social safety net, USAID and are an AOC/ Bernie socialist. Because that’s what Jesus taught. And you can disagree with these positions. A lot of my Catholic family does. They conspicuously to the church of Sunday, eat fish on Friday and the rest of the week say such gross things about the poor, immigrants, trans people that my college aged kids don’t want to be near them. But they are hypocrites and judge others in a way Jesus would never condone. You can’t disagree with a strong social safety net and tout your Catholic bona fides. And apparently, because I had a wanted ectopic pregnancy and therefore having needed an abortion, I’m going to he11. [b]My parents say so, and 20 years later still tell everyone how sad they are I won’t be in heaven with them. Because abortion is a mortal sin— one of the only ones you can’t atone for.[b]

So, I’m now a lapsed Catholic. Because I don’t believe in a church that would have me die at 30 for a futile pregnancy. And I don’t know what JD Vance is. But he certainly didn’t convert because he believes in most of the tenants of Catholicism.

But spare me cheers for the Pope snubbing JD. In October 2024, when ihis words might have mattered, this Pope was silent.

It is very sad that you’ve been through what you say you’ve been through.

But (1) removal of the tube containing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion as the Church defines one, and the Church specifically teaches that such surgery is, pursuant to “the principle of double effect,” not sinful; and (2) mortal sins, specifically including deliberate procured abortion, can be forgiven in confession if the pursing is truly sorry and has a firm purpose of amendment.

PP here and two things. Scratch that. Three. One, that’s your interpretation. And a valid one, but not the only one. I left the Church over this, so I did my homework, and discovered that… the Catholic Church is a mess on ectopic pregnancy, and you will get opinions from it’s still abortion, and you die now for the reward of heaven, to yours, to threading the needle with not using drugs for early ectopics and removing the tube with the fetus intact and having them die a natural death in the tube apart from your body before touching them— but putting the mother through invasive, unnecessary surgery and destroying her future fertility for the same outcome. I do know this— I would not want to end up in a Catholic Hospital with an ectopic. Because you really don’t know what rules a given hospital is playing by.

Two— and this is huge. I was 30 with two young kids and was bleeding out in an ER. I’m not sorry about a d@mn thing. I mean, I mourned the loss of the child, just like when I miscarried a prior pregnancy. I cried for a long time. Still do 20 years later. But I am not sorry that I accepted medical care while I was literally dying. Because no matter what I did, there would not have been a baby. It sucks, but it’s true. The fetus wasn’t viable. And I did lose the tube. And never could have the third baby I wanted. Which also sucked. But at least I was around to raise the two beautiful children I had. I will not apologize for that choice. And I don’t believe in a God that wants me to ask for forgiveness for that decision.

And three— and this is also huge. The Pope said before the 2024 election that Trump and Harris were morally equivalent choices and American Catholics should decide for themselves which was worse, or whether to vote at all. Certainly people like my parents took that and ran with “the Pope isn’t against MAGA”. In a close election, that mattered, especially since some swing states had high Catholic populations. He doesn’t now get to pretend he didn’t play a role in giving us Trump.

Ectopic pregnancy has been the textbook example used to explain moral principle of double effect since theology textbooks were exclusively in Latin.

That does not mean, of course, that one will never get an erroneous opinion from somewhere, particularly from an uninformed or misinformed lay person, or even a poorly trained cleric, but the longevity of this specific teaching belies your assertion that the Church “is a mess on ectopic pregnancy.”

The loss of one fallopian tube does not, as you know, “destroy future fertility” in an otherwise normal individual.

Again, there being no sin in the surgical treatment of an ectopic pregnancy there would be nothing to ask forgiveness for, and there would have been no argument in favor of having the mother of two existing children risk dying in such a case.

You left out the actually important part of the story. There ARE some Catholics that say using methotrexate to spare the fallopian tube is an abortion.

Given the time frame cited by the poster I was responding to (20+ years ago) it seems unlikely that methotrexate was even an academic possibility in her case, particularly given that she was actively hemorrhaging and at risk of imminent death.

Even today, methotrexate would seem at best an academic/theoretical issue in the vast majority of ectopic cases, given that such pregnancies typically are not diagnosed in time for anything but the most immediate (i.e., surgical) intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG he killed the pope. His toxic stench permeates everything!

That’s my thought. Meeting with the Antichrist Jr killed the Pope.

Exactly.

Vice President JD Vance literally murdered the Pope.

This actually happened.

I heard that too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

wtf. This is a horrible tweet. His “heart goes out to Christians”? And then a line about remembering him as if he were some old coworker?

JD may have converted but he has zero cultural or emotional connection to Catholicism.

Exactly! I'm not a religious person, but I think if I had just met with the pope a few hours before his death, my social media comments on his death would have been full of emotion--who wouldn't be moved by that?! What is wrong with JD Vance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG he killed the pope. His toxic stench permeates everything!

That’s my thought. Meeting with the Antichrist Jr killed the Pope.

I've seen the Omen movies - this is totally an Antichrist move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DOGE needs to visit the vice presidents office. Taxpayers are spending a lot of money sending Vance to places where he is not welcome.

DOGE investigates and shuts down those places that were investigating Musky. It's a revenge tour for him or a stay-out-of-jail tour. He doesn't care if Vance spends money.