Vance shunned by Pope Francis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk.

Came here to say the same. Great work JD!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk.

I just came here to post. The NYT article is not paywalled. What the hell did JD do to the poor pontiff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk.

I just came here to post. The NYT article is not paywalled. What the hell did JD do to the poor pontiff?

If only his bad energy would also have the same affect on other overweight aging men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk.

I just came here to post. The NYT article is not paywalled. What the hell did JD do to the poor pontiff?

If only his bad energy would also have the same affect on other overweight aging men.

Yup.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:More lies from DCUM

Pope Francis looks like he wants to run. But he's a good christian and being kind.

I applaud Francis for meeting with Vance. I believe Vance’s conversion was shallow at best, fake at worst. Meeting with the Pope hopefully could have confronted JD with the understanding that he is not in fact superior to everyone else and is morally accountable for his actions.

+1 I hope Vance felt as small and fake as he is in the presence of a kind and morally upright human being.

I hope the Pope talked to him about the cruelty and sin of cutting off aid to Africa and using governmental power to deliberately sow fear.

Doubt it.

Why do you doubt it? This Pope is very outspoken.

Yeah. Super outspoken on the 2024 election, for example. When, as you might remember, he said Harris and Trump were equally bad choices, and American Catholics should figure it out for themselves. Because abortion and Project 2025 were equally bad sins in his opinion. Because an authoritarian who openly degrades the least of our people, and abuses our poor, our migrants, our citizens in need of food and education and shelter and compassion and empathy and allowing women making their own medical decisions are equal evils. They are not. This life sometimes gives you two bad options and says choose one. And throwing up your hands and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is cowardice. And I do expect better from the Pope than than “she was bad on one issue so nope, let’s not speak out again a promise of harming millions of immigrants, people on Medicaid, poor people, federal employees, etc, etc.

I respected this Pope. And had a lot of hope for him. But come on man. If you really want to walk the Catholic social justice walk, then you are in favor of universal pre-K, universal healthcare, a strong social safety net, USAID and are an AOC/ Bernie socialist. Because that’s what Jesus taught. And you can disagree with these positions. A lot of my Catholic family does. They conspicuously to the church of Sunday, eat fish on Friday and the rest of the week say such gross things about the poor, immigrants, trans people that my college aged kids don’t want to be near them. But they are hypocrites and judge others in a way Jesus would never condone. You can’t disagree with a strong social safety net and tout your Catholic bona fides. And apparently, because I had a wanted ectopic pregnancy and therefore having needed an abortion, I’m going to he11. [b]My parents say so, and 20 years later still tell everyone how sad they are I won’t be in heaven with them. Because abortion is a mortal sin— one of the only ones you can’t atone for.[b]

So, I’m now a lapsed Catholic. Because I don’t believe in a church that would have me die at 30 for a futile pregnancy. And I don’t know what JD Vance is. But he certainly didn’t convert because he believes in most of the tenants of Catholicism.

But spare me cheers for the Pope snubbing JD. In October 2024, when ihis words might have mattered, this Pope was silent.

It is very sad that you’ve been through what you say you’ve been through.

But (1) removal of the tube containing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion as the Church defines one, and the Church specifically teaches that such surgery is, pursuant to “the principle of double effect,” not sinful; and (2) mortal sins, specifically including deliberate procured abortion, can be forgiven in confession if the pursing is truly sorry and has a firm purpose of amendment.

“Truly sorry” for not dying due to a preventable medical outcome? And this is a belief system you expect women to embrace? Folks like you are insane. - Physician and NP

Your puerile name calling and incomprehensible vague reference to “preventable medical outcome” notwithstanding, my post was aimed at correcting what seemed to be a significant theological misunderstanding on the part of the poster I responded to about the positive morality of treating an ectopic pregnancy even if it results in the death of the child as an undesired second effect; and as to whether abortion is an “unforgivable” sin, which it is not.

As for my “expectations” about the “belief system” any given person should “embrace,” I think they should follow whatever they conscientiously think true, but that in doing so they are best served by accurate foundational knowledge, which the PP in question appeared to lack.

“Puerile”. That anger is never far behind, is it? Just an FYI, an ectopic pregnancy cannot proceed to a viable term pregnancy. Ever. Hence, there is no “death of a child”. Do keep lecturing on this topic though. It’s going well.

If we’re discussing Catholic theology, there most certainly is a child who dies. As for anger, you started with the name calling.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:More lies from DCUM

Pope Francis looks like he wants to run. But he's a good christian and being kind.

I applaud Francis for meeting with Vance. I believe Vance’s conversion was shallow at best, fake at worst. Meeting with the Pope hopefully could have confronted JD with the understanding that he is not in fact superior to everyone else and is morally accountable for his actions.

+1 I hope Vance felt as small and fake as he is in the presence of a kind and morally upright human being.

I hope the Pope talked to him about the cruelty and sin of cutting off aid to Africa and using governmental power to deliberately sow fear.

Doubt it.

Why do you doubt it? This Pope is very outspoken.

Yeah. Super outspoken on the 2024 election, for example. When, as you might remember, he said Harris and Trump were equally bad choices, and American Catholics should figure it out for themselves. Because abortion and Project 2025 were equally bad sins in his opinion. Because an authoritarian who openly degrades the least of our people, and abuses our poor, our migrants, our citizens in need of food and education and shelter and compassion and empathy and allowing women making their own medical decisions are equal evils. They are not. This life sometimes gives you two bad options and says choose one. And throwing up your hands and letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is cowardice. And I do expect better from the Pope than than “she was bad on one issue so nope, let’s not speak out again a promise of harming millions of immigrants, people on Medicaid, poor people, federal employees, etc, etc.

I respected this Pope. And had a lot of hope for him. But come on man. If you really want to walk the Catholic social justice walk, then you are in favor of universal pre-K, universal healthcare, a strong social safety net, USAID and are an AOC/ Bernie socialist. Because that’s what Jesus taught. And you can disagree with these positions. A lot of my Catholic family does. They conspicuously to the church of Sunday, eat fish on Friday and the rest of the week say such gross things about the poor, immigrants, trans people that my college aged kids don’t want to be near them. But they are hypocrites and judge others in a way Jesus would never condone. You can’t disagree with a strong social safety net and tout your Catholic bona fides. And apparently, because I had a wanted ectopic pregnancy and therefore having needed an abortion, I’m going to he11. [b]My parents say so, and 20 years later still tell everyone how sad they are I won’t be in heaven with them. Because abortion is a mortal sin— one of the only ones you can’t atone for.[b]

So, I’m now a lapsed Catholic. Because I don’t believe in a church that would have me die at 30 for a futile pregnancy. And I don’t know what JD Vance is. But he certainly didn’t convert because he believes in most of the tenants of Catholicism.

But spare me cheers for the Pope snubbing JD. In October 2024, when ihis words might have mattered, this Pope was silent.

It is very sad that you’ve been through what you say you’ve been through.

But (1) removal of the tube containing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion as the Church defines one, and the Church specifically teaches that such surgery is, pursuant to “the principle of double effect,” not sinful; and (2) mortal sins, specifically including deliberate procured abortion, can be forgiven in confession if the pursing is truly sorry and has a firm purpose of amendment.

PP here and two things. Scratch that. Three. One, that’s your interpretation. And a valid one, but not the only one. I left the Church over this, so I did my homework, and discovered that… the Catholic Church is a mess on ectopic pregnancy, and you will get opinions from it’s still abortion, and you die now for the reward of heaven, to yours, to threading the needle with not using drugs for early ectopics and removing the tube with the fetus intact and having them die a natural death in the tube apart from your body before touching them— but putting the mother through invasive, unnecessary surgery and destroying her future fertility for the same outcome. I do know this— I would not want to end up in a Catholic Hospital with an ectopic. Because you really don’t know what rules a given hospital is playing by.

Two— and this is huge. I was 30 with two young kids and was bleeding out in an ER. I’m not sorry about a d@mn thing. I mean, I mourned the loss of the child, just like when I miscarried a prior pregnancy. I cried for a long time. Still do 20 years later. But I am not sorry that I accepted medical care while I was literally dying. Because no matter what I did, there would not have been a baby. It sucks, but it’s true. The fetus wasn’t viable. And I did lose the tube. And never could have the third baby I wanted. Which also sucked. But at least I was around to raise the two beautiful children I had. I will not apologize for that choice. And I don’t believe in a God that wants me to ask for forgiveness for that decision.

And three— and this is also huge. The Pope said before the 2024 election that Trump and Harris were morally equivalent choices and American Catholics should decide for themselves which was worse, or whether to vote at all. Certainly people like my parents took that and ran with “the Pope isn’t against MAGA”. In a close election, that mattered, especially since some swing states had high Catholic populations. He doesn’t now get to pretend he didn’t play a role in giving us Trump.

Ectopic pregnancy has been the textbook example used to explain moral principle of double effect since theology textbooks were exclusively in Latin.

That does not mean, of course, that one will never get an erroneous opinion from somewhere, particularly from an uninformed or misinformed lay person, or even a poorly trained cleric, but the longevity of this specific teaching belies your assertion that the Church “is a mess on ectopic pregnancy.”

The loss of one fallopian tube does not, as you know, “destroy future fertility” in an otherwise normal individual.

Again, there being no sin in the surgical treatment of an ectopic pregnancy there would be nothing to ask forgiveness for, and there would have been no argument in favor of having the mother of two existing children risk dying in such a case.

[Anonymous]

Just musing… What is it about right-wingers precipitating the death of elderly eminent people? First we had the Liz Truss audience with the Queen; then the Initials Guy with the Pope. Maybe they exude toxicity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just musing… What is it about right-wingers precipitating the death of elderly eminent people? First we had the Liz Truss audience with the Queen; then the Initials Guy with the Pope. Maybe they exude toxicity?

Last moments on earth spent taking out the trash,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk.

I just came here to post. The NYT article is not paywalled. What the hell did JD do to the poor pontiff?

I also came here to post that question. Vance is toxic!

[Anonymous]

Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Weirdly detached Tweet, James Dingus:

That’s really bizarre. A tiny fraction of Catholics ever have the chance to see the pope in person, way fewer still could even imagine having a private meeting with him. He should have been on such a high from this as a man of faith, and I would be absolutely shattered knowing that he spent some of his last moments with me.

He’s sold his soul.

[Anonymous]

RIP to the wokest Pope ever!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, Pope Francis just passed away. I hope Vance thinks about that for a moment, and how he has become such a jerk.

[Anonymous]

Just like Trump, everything Vance touches dies. Poor Pope. Having to spend a few of your last precious moments on earth making nice with the likes of Vance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just like Trump, everything Vance touches dies. Poor Pope. Having to spend a few of your last precious moments on earth making nice with the likes of Vance.

Reminds me of the queen dying a day or two after meeting Liz Truss