Once in a lifetime job opportunity but DS with SN

[Anonymous]

I think you can have the t all. Don’t borrow trouble. You’ve done your research and you have a plan. Your family is supportive. You’re already good at being a SN mom. This is exciting and amazing. Just go.

And, I also have a spouse who can’t manage the appointments. But you know what? My spouse takes care of other things so I can take care of the medical stuff. It’s been working for us for 20 years. We don’t all have to do everything so long as everything that gets done.

I hope your new job is successful and your new adventure is fulfilling. You got this.

[Anonymous]

OP, I mean this kindly, but my DH is military, and there's a reason servicemembers with family members with this kind of needs get sent overseas on unaccompanied orders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that would give me pause is that Downs is almost non existent in Scandinavia. Iceland being the most extreme. You may have people questioning your choices in uncomfortable ways and fewer professionals with experience. But hopefully such occurrences would be rare and balanced by the otherwise accepting environment.

I would go for it since it is temporary and you wouldn’t be giving up a job to do it, but try to connect with some special needs locals if possible

I was coming here to say this. There was an interesting article in the Atlantic in 2020 on the topic. Made it seem like you’d be a real outsider if your kid had DS—only 18 babies total in 2019 in Denmark had DS. I’d make really sure that the services my child had access to aren’t in the dark ages and embrace your child.

I almost got a job in France and as I was doing the final interview I did a ton of research about ASD in France because my DD who was 2.5 was diagnosed—she was verbal and bright but certainly quirky with communication challenges (and actually now at 5 hardly has an IEP or much services but is definitely on the spectrum).

France didn’t seem like a great place for ASD, and honestly gave my husband and I pause as we considered things. I would have gotten a TON of support from the org I was considering, but I wasn’t clear about quality and whether they’d embrace her neurodiversity. Surprisingly, I also found out USA is pretty much the vanguard for educating children with disabilities (which given our struggles with special Ed, I found surprising and dismaying). I was worried what her education would look like.

Now I’m still guessing had I got that job, I’d probably have gone for it. But we actually considered DH becoming a SAHP if so. He is a very involved and invested parent though, and would’ve received a stipend for NOT working from the org I was interviewing with. This is a tough decision OP—sounds like you’d get a lot of support but you are right to really think this through. No right answer—you’ll be left wondering either way.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, you should do it. And don’t take this the wrong way, but you should also lower your expectations for what you need to do wrt your DS. It’s OK not to maximize every single therapy and possibility. You sound like an amazing mom who will continue to be amazing but it is simply not rational to forgo this opportunity because you’re killing yourself to be super SN mom. My kid has more mild needs and my career isn’t the greatest - but tbh I’m kind of lazy anyway and wasn’t meant to have a high flying career anyway.

Op here. Thank you! You’re probably right. I’ve gotten more intense around DS as we’ve been leading up to kindergarten which feels like a big inflection point.

My only fear is I do feel a bit of imposter syndrome….like I can’t believe I landed this job? I’m not the highest energy person. I just have a super niche skill set. But I quit my job 6 months ago because I couldn’t handle working my normal job (not super cool Scandinavian job) and my DS (and other kids). It’s scary to think about going back to work, moving overseas, etc. But I have truly been preparing for this for 20 years….like ever since college. I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t trying to make this happen.

Honestly, I see you lasting 6 months at the most. If you can't handle US + normal job there is no way you are surviving 3 years overseas.

Cool it, PP. OP has a great opportunity and she is rightfully nervous. Can we just be supportive?

Scandinavia is far more family friendly than US, so quality of life will be better. My only slight concern is that they don't really have an emphasis on preventive medicine and they can be anti-vax. As a country, their healthcare system is better so they can absorb the schocks of getting sick, and work sick leave is better. Just make sure that your community will get down syndrome.

Op is a troll. More "details" keep coming out, not answering specific questions, the basic story doesn't add up.

DP. She's answering some questions by providing additional details. Have some patience.

Um, she's not. Why is this not do-able in a few years? How is the 70 hour per week assistance being paid-out of pocket or by the company? How kids are there really? Why does it think this with so much travel is possible if op quit her job 6 months ago?

Because, you twat, it’s something she said in her OP that she had applied and been turned down for repeatedly before. If having been accepted she now turned them down, she would never be hired by them again. Why does it matter who is paying the assistance, she said it is a well paying job, she can pay for it. She has a husband. He will figure it out while she is travelling. He may be feeding the kids the Scandinavian equivalent of Lunchables, but everyone will survive.

Go, OP. You deserve this opportunity, but so do your kids - all 3 of them. There will be so many wonderful experiences.

Go

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a residential treatment option for your son?

Op here. He’s 5?? I don’t think this is a thing for functional 5 year olds with Down syndrome but even if it was I would NEVER consider it for this reason (to allow me to go overseas). Are you trying to make a point or are you being sincere?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, you should do it. And don’t take this the wrong way, but you should also lower your expectations for what you need to do wrt your DS. It’s OK not to maximize every single therapy and possibility. You sound like an amazing mom who will continue to be amazing but it is simply not rational to forgo this opportunity because you’re killing yourself to be super SN mom. My kid has more mild needs and my career isn’t the greatest - but tbh I’m kind of lazy anyway and wasn’t meant to have a high flying career anyway.

Op here. Thank you! You’re probably right. I’ve gotten more intense around DS as we’ve been leading up to kindergarten which feels like a big inflection point.

My only fear is I do feel a bit of imposter syndrome….like I can’t believe I landed this job? I’m not the highest energy person. I just have a super niche skill set. But I quit my job 6 months ago because I couldn’t handle working my normal job (not super cool Scandinavian job) and my DS (and other kids). It’s scary to think about going back to work, moving overseas, etc. But I have truly been preparing for this for 20 years….like ever since college. I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t trying to make this happen.

Honestly, I see you lasting 6 months at the most. If you can't handle US + normal job there is no way you are surviving 3 years overseas.

Cool it, PP. OP has a great opportunity and she is rightfully nervous. Can we just be supportive?

Scandinavia is far more family friendly than US, so quality of life will be better. My only slight concern is that they don't really have an emphasis on preventive medicine and they can be anti-vax. As a country, their healthcare system is better so they can absorb the schocks of getting sick, and work sick leave is better. Just make sure that your community will get down syndrome.

Op is a troll. More "details" keep coming out, not answering specific questions, the basic story doesn't add up.

DP. She's answering some questions by providing additional details. Have some patience.

Um, she's not. Why is this not do-able in a few years? How is the 70 hour per week assistance being paid-out of pocket or by the company? How kids are there really? Why does it think this with so much travel is possible if op quit her job 6 months ago?

Op here. I’m not a troll. I don’t know how answering these questions proves whether I am a troll (couldn’t I just make up the answers?). But here ya go:

I can’t just defer the job because the job wouldn’t allow it. I’ve also accepted it already and they are expecting me to go, so backing out will burn bridges.

The nanny/au pair assistance is what I’ve priced out that we could afford and we would be paying it out of pocket. I don’t know for sure that we’d have 2 employees but it’s something that would be possible if needed.

I have 2 kids.

I think the core of my question is whether I’m up to the task of doing this. I obviously have concerns and in my own mind can’t tell if this is imposter syndrome or fear or my own intuition telling me not to proceed. That’s part of why I made my post. I did decide to take a time out from working 6 months ago, and yeah I’m scared. But I’ve also always worked and have had a good career so it’s not as if I don’t know what it means to be a working parent.

I think the question is why are you still so exhausted when you don't have a job right now? Is it a physical health problem, mental health problem, or is your son just that high-needs?

I have a hard time seeing you having a job, doing everything that the nanny or two nannies don't do (for both kids), having a marriage, and not being exhausted again. With the added difficulty that it's all in another country and you have to start from scratch finding new providers for everything.

What happens if one of your childcare people suddenly quits or isn't available?

Op here. It’s a good question-why am I THIS exhausted? I mean, while I’m not technically working a full time job, the interview process for this new role was grueling and time intensive and took almost a year, with two separate week long interviews that required travel. I also am working but just part time, doing contractor work in my field like 10-20 hours/week. I don’t have full time childcare anymore since leaving my full time job so I am often doing parent things. My DS also had a lot of medical stuff come up this year and that and the IEP process going into kindergarten for next year was a huge time suck. I’ve also been dealing with depression and anxiety but they have improved greatly in the last several months with medication and therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that would give me pause is that Downs is almost non existent in Scandinavia. Iceland being the most extreme. You may have people questioning your choices in uncomfortable ways and fewer professionals with experience. But hopefully such occurrences would be rare and balanced by the otherwise accepting environment.

I would go for it since it is temporary and you wouldn’t be giving up a job to do it, but try to connect with some special needs locals if possible

I was coming here to say this. There was an interesting article in the Atlantic in 2020 on the topic. Made it seem like you’d be a real outsider if your kid had DS—only 18 babies total in 2019 in Denmark had DS. I’d make really sure that the services my child had access to aren’t in the dark ages and embrace your child.

I almost got a job in France and as I was doing the final interview I did a ton of research about ASD in France because my DD who was 2.5 was diagnosed—she was verbal and bright but certainly quirky with communication challenges (and actually now at 5 hardly has an IEP or much services but is definitely on the spectrum).

France didn’t seem like a great place for ASD, and honestly gave my husband and I pause as we considered things. I would have gotten a TON of support from the org I was considering, but I wasn’t clear about quality and whether they’d embrace her neurodiversity. Surprisingly, I also found out USA is pretty much the vanguard for educating children with disabilities (which given our struggles with special Ed, I found surprising and dismaying). I was worried what her education would look like.

Now I’m still guessing had I got that job, I’d probably have gone for it. But we actually considered DH becoming a SAHP if so. He is a very involved and invested parent though, and would’ve received a stipend for NOT working from the org I was interviewing with. This is a tough decision OP—sounds like you’d get a lot of support but you are right to really think this through. No right answer—you’ll be left wondering either way.

To add - there is zero and I mean zero tolerance for bad behavior from kids in Denmark / Sweden. No devices at dinner, nada. So I'd also expect you won't have as much of a social life as a family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a residential treatment option for your son?

Op here. He’s 5?? I don’t think this is a thing for functional 5 year olds with Down syndrome but even if it was I would NEVER consider it for this reason (to allow me to go overseas). Are you trying to make a point or are you being sincere?

It sounds like his needs are severe and that you are having trouble with caring for those needs. Residential treatment options aren't as bad as they sound. My SIL works in them with kids in NJ/NY. Family visits and the kids are in full time treatment programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that would give me pause is that Downs is almost non existent in Scandinavia. Iceland being the most extreme. You may have people questioning your choices in uncomfortable ways and fewer professionals with experience. But hopefully such occurrences would be rare and balanced by the otherwise accepting environment.

I would go for it since it is temporary and you wouldn’t be giving up a job to do it, but try to connect with some special needs locals if possible

Op here. I know Down syndrome is less common in Scandinavia but Scandinavia is also not a panacea. There are countries in Scandinavia where kids with Down syndrome are more common than others-the rates vary.

Regardless, among my peer group (educated, relatively non-religious American women with careers who had kids in 20s/30s), and with the rise of NIPTs, kids with Down syndrome are already extremely rare in the US. I’ve already found some families in our target country with kids who have SN.

I tend to think the US is probably the best place to educate and raise kids with SN, but I’ve concluded the target country is at least adequate in this regard. Not equivalent, potentially not quite as good as the US, but I think good enough.

But yeah, it’s one of the considerations-I’m taking my family on this journey knowing there will be consequences for them that I cannot anticipate or know in advance. Of course there could be advantages and adventures too, but I can’t know how the math will work out. Will the travel and family adventures be enough to offset the reduction in services and the disruption to providers, school, friends, etc.? I don’t know. It’s heavy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a residential treatment option for your son?

Op here. He’s 5?? I don’t think this is a thing for functional 5 year olds with Down syndrome but even if it was I would NEVER consider it for this reason (to allow me to go overseas). Are you trying to make a point or are you being sincere?

It sounds like his needs are severe and that you are having trouble with caring for those needs. Residential treatment options aren't as bad as they sound. My SIL works in them with kids in NJ/NY. Family visits and the kids are in full time treatment programs.

Op here. I think residential treatment options absolutely have a place and should be destigmatized. And, I think residential treatment for a 5 year old to enable the family to MOVE overseas is absolutely not a thing.

[Anonymous]

I think the first post was a bit deceptive. You made it sound like you have a choice when in fact you have no choice. Maybe it would be better to have asked this from a perspective of, tips for moving overseas with a high-needs child.

It sounds like you are sure that services are available for your child. I will say that some parents in the state department hide diagnoses like Autism to get approval to move abroad, convinced there are services and find themselves without care and having to be medivac'ed home. I hope that is not the case here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the first post was a bit deceptive. You made it sound like you have a choice when in fact you have no choice. Maybe it would be better to have asked this from a perspective of, tips for moving overseas with a high-needs child.

It sounds like you are sure that services are available for your child. I will say that some parents in the state department hide diagnoses like Autism to get approval to move abroad, convinced there are services and find themselves without care and having to be medivac'ed home. I hope that is not the case here.

Op here. The first words of my post literally say “I’ve accepted a job….”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the first post was a bit deceptive. You made it sound like you have a choice when in fact you have no choice. Maybe it would be better to have asked this from a perspective of, tips for moving overseas with a high-needs child.

It sounds like you are sure that services are available for your child. I will say that some parents in the state department hide diagnoses like Autism to get approval to move abroad, convinced there are services and find themselves without care and having to be medivac'ed home. I hope that is not the case here.

Op here. The first words of my post literally say “I’ve accepted a job….”

...that normal people could turn down, easily. Literally happens every day. In today's environment? People quit the day before their start date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that would give me pause is that Downs is almost non existent in Scandinavia. Iceland being the most extreme. You may have people questioning your choices in uncomfortable ways and fewer professionals with experience. But hopefully such occurrences would be rare and balanced by the otherwise accepting environment.

I would go for it since it is temporary and you wouldn’t be giving up a job to do it, but try to connect with some special needs locals if possible

I was coming here to say this. There was an interesting article in the Atlantic in 2020 on the topic. Made it seem like you’d be a real outsider if your kid had DS—only 18 babies total in 2019 in Denmark had DS. I’d make really sure that the services my child had access to aren’t in the dark ages and embrace your child.

I almost got a job in France and as I was doing the final interview I did a ton of research about ASD in France because my DD who was 2.5 was diagnosed—she was verbal and bright but certainly quirky with communication challenges (and actually now at 5 hardly has an IEP or much services but is definitely on the spectrum).

France didn’t seem like a great place for ASD, and honestly gave my husband and I pause as we considered things. I would have gotten a TON of support from the org I was considering, but I wasn’t clear about quality and whether they’d embrace her neurodiversity. Surprisingly, I also found out USA is pretty much the vanguard for educating children with disabilities (which given our struggles with special Ed, I found surprising and dismaying). I was worried what her education would look like.

Now I’m still guessing had I got that job, I’d probably have gone for it. But we actually considered DH becoming a SAHP if so. He is a very involved and invested parent though, and would’ve received a stipend for NOT working from the org I was interviewing with. This is a tough decision OP—sounds like you’d get a lot of support but you are right to really think this through. No right answer—you’ll be left wondering either way.

Pretty much worldwide ASD is a no-go diagnosis for the military due to lack of ABA and any services at all for it. There is no ADA abroad (obviously) and many are shocked to learn that disabled people have very few rights and can be openly discriminated against. The worldwide motto is more they have to adapt to us vs accommodating them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing that would give me pause is that Downs is almost non existent in Scandinavia. Iceland being the most extreme. You may have people questioning your choices in uncomfortable ways and fewer professionals with experience. But hopefully such occurrences would be rare and balanced by the otherwise accepting environment.

I would go for it since it is temporary and you wouldn’t be giving up a job to do it, but try to connect with some special needs locals if possible

I was coming here to say this. There was an interesting article in the Atlantic in 2020 on the topic. Made it seem like you’d be a real outsider if your kid had DS—only 18 babies total in 2019 in Denmark had DS. I’d make really sure that the services my child had access to aren’t in the dark ages and embrace your child.

I almost got a job in France and as I was doing the final interview I did a ton of research about ASD in France because my DD who was 2.5 was diagnosed—she was verbal and bright but certainly quirky with communication challenges (and actually now at 5 hardly has an IEP or much services but is definitely on the spectrum).

France didn’t seem like a great place for ASD, and honestly gave my husband and I pause as we considered things. I would have gotten a TON of support from the org I was considering, but I wasn’t clear about quality and whether they’d embrace her neurodiversity. Surprisingly, I also found out USA is pretty much the vanguard for educating children with disabilities (which given our struggles with special Ed, I found surprising and dismaying). I was worried what her education would look like.

Now I’m still guessing had I got that job, I’d probably have gone for it. But we actually considered DH becoming a SAHP if so. He is a very involved and invested parent though, and would’ve received a stipend for NOT working from the org I was interviewing with. This is a tough decision OP—sounds like you’d get a lot of support but you are right to really think this through. No right answer—you’ll be left wondering either way.

Pretty much worldwide ASD is a no-go diagnosis for the military due to lack of ABA and any services at all for it. There is no ADA abroad (obviously) and many are shocked to learn that disabled people have very few rights and can be openly discriminated against. The worldwide motto is more they have to adapt to us vs accommodating them.

Military has online service providers depending on the need and some bases have more support than others. Not comparable.