The social continuation of High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thinks it’s very common for kids to want to get away either because they think it will be HS all over, they think their parents won’t cut the cord if they are nearby, or they just want to go someplace different than where they have lived their whole lives. That said, there are lots of things I too would like if someone else is willing to pay for it, I’ve learned with my kids is if it’s our money - no problem but when it’s their money and sacrifice involved then you know it’s really important to them.

So our deal is we gave a budget that was a little higher than in-state. To go out of state they needed some combination of things to make it work like merit, job, and loans. So realistically they had to be willing to look OOS, maybe someplace not ranked as high as UMD, in order to maximize the chances of having an OOS option where they could get in and be offered merit.

Having the same discussion with our DC. Most of the oos colleges that DC could get into with merit will be lower ranked than UMD. All just so that they could experience living out of state. I mean, is PA all that different to MD? Do they really want to spend their $60K that they inherited on going to a lower ranked school for 4 years rather than saving it to help them get their own place and/or a new car after graduation?

I don't think 17/18 yr olds can really understand the opportunity cost of spending that much just to get a different vibe. I 100% support DC in doing a semester abroad, but spending $200K+ on a lower ranked college just because DC wants to get away from MD seems like not a smart choice.

I don’t know if future downpayment in a home is tangible enough but kids do understand car/no car, needing to work vs not, and loans vs not if they’ve had to be inconvenienced by not having a car of their own, had to work, and taken personal finance including understanding what rent etc costs are like in this area. My thing with getting into a school lower ranked than UMD with merit - is it could be a big pond little fish vs big fish little pond scenario. I’m a believer it’s what you do once you are there, not just about where you go. In addition, I assume companies local to the school probably recruit from the school. I saw first hand that the Denver office of the company I was with out of college hired a lot of UC Boulder grads, the NJ office hired a mix of many colleges including Princeton, NYU as well as Rutgers and Stevens Institute of Technology.

Too many people don't understand the long term ramifications of getting college loans. Heck, we taxpayers just bailed out several thousands of these people in the tune of billions.

Yes, there is the element of "big fish little pond", and if you are talking about big metro areas with lots of jobs, I might agree with you (Boulder is at least in a state with decent job prospects). But if people are picking no name universities in the middle of nowhere just because they want to get out of MD, what are the job prospects for such grads?

And btw, I went to a B/C rated in state university, so I'm not a prestige name wh0re. But, it was in CA where there were lots of jobs. I certainly wouldn't have paid oos prices for a B/C rated university in a state that had lower job prospects. That would be a dumb move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really would prefer my DC (HS class of 2026) stay in VA-both due to proximity and also cost, However they feel that they do not want the social continuation of their HS-with the top 10% academically going to UVA, top 30% to VTECH and most of the rest of the kids to JMU, VCU, GMU or NOVA. We are in a high achieving public HS in NOVA.

Have any of your kids expressed similar view?

It doesn't work like that at all. Assuming your HS has 500 kids in their grade and 20% end up at VT, that's 100. Once you are done dividign them across the various majors, you are unlikely to have more than a handful of kids in your DC's major. Even within that not everyone takes the same classes given AP credits, etc. Now intersect that number with the kids your DC actually knows in HS. Unless she is Miss Popularity, she likely knows about a 100 kids. You are looking at a very small number of 'same old' kids from her HS she will be interacting with.

I was in band in HS and many of those kids went to the State U and joined the marching band. If I'd gone there I would have ended up in almost exactly the same social circle as HS. A few new kids eventually worked their way into the group (mainly new bfs and gfs) but the core 30-40 kids were exactly the same as HS. I see posts on FB of that same group still hanging out. Now their kids are going to the State U and joining marching band.

Sounds like a bunch of nerds!

Smart kids who made lifelong friendships instead of being drifters!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was very shy and had no close friends in Hs. There was no way I was gonna go to the state flagship with 1/3 my class. I went to a small liberal arts school and completely came out of my shell, and became a new person.

That being said, my kids go to UVA. They almost never see any of the other ten kids from their class that go there.

That's a good point it it's about big vs small, not "same as high school" vs different. A small school is more like high school than a big school. (It's very similar to a private high school, which are much smaller than public high schools.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC wanted to go to school out of state and in a completely different area than they grew up. Having lived on the East and West coasts, I completely supported their preference. College can be a a time to reinvent yourself which can be difficult if you attend school with others you went to school with or friends of those who know you.

Out of state schools don’t have to be more expensive than in-state schools. Look at Purdue, the Cal States, McGill, etc

? As someone who went to a cal state, I would never pay that much for my kid to go there from oos even if they are dying to get out of this area. They can do it on their own dime once they get a job.

Out of state tuition for some of the CSUs are bordering $20K to $30K just for tuition. Add to it the col (housing, airfare to and from, and everything else), the oos cost is going to be like $50K per year for a CSU degree. That is the dumbest thing ever.

Purdue is one of the cheaper oos colleges, but it's still more expensive than in state.

How many years ago was this? The only Cal State with OOS tuition near $30K is Cal Poly SLO and it beats UVA for engineering with in-state tuition of $20K. The remaining Cal States are around $20k or cheaper in tuition. San Diego State is a great option if a kid wants sunny, gorgeous campus, rah rah and a great education.

PP here.. It doesn't matter how long ago it was. What matters is now, and right now, the col in CA is ridiculous (it's part of why we moved from CA). That difference of $10K can easily be eaten up by flights (a few times per year) and the high cost of living, and not just housing cost. Gas prices in CA are *insane* I still have family in CA and visit often. We were floored by the gas and food prices there. I love CA (lived there my whole life), but I would only live there if I had a ton of money.

My DC wants to go to CA, but we discussed the cost/benefit, and it's not worth it for CSU schools (they are not a eng/CS major).

Also, SLO is a regional school and has a great reputation regionally. I'm not a rah rah UVA fan (never even thought about the existence of it before I moved here), but cost/benefit wise, UVA eng would beat SLO if you live in VA.

Obviously, if money is not a factor, then none of this matters. But, for most people, cost is definitely a factor.

This is like spending $80K on an expensive car just because you want and too many people drive the $40K, but the $40K is more value for money and a really good car that is more reliable than that $80K car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC wanted to go to school out of state and in a completely different area than they grew up. Having lived on the East and West coasts, I completely supported their preference. College can be a a time to reinvent yourself which can be difficult if you attend school with others you went to school with or friends of those who know you.

Out of state schools don’t have to be more expensive than in-state schools. Look at Purdue, the Cal States, McGill, etc

? As someone who went to a cal state, I would never pay that much for my kid to go there from oos even if they are dying to get out of this area. They can do it on their own dime once they get a job.

Out of state tuition for some of the CSUs are bordering $20K to $30K just for tuition. Add to it the col (housing, airfare to and from, and everything else), the oos cost is going to be like $50K per year for a CSU degree. That is the dumbest thing ever.

Purdue is one of the cheaper oos colleges, but it's still more expensive than in state.

How many years ago was this? The only Cal State with OOS tuition near $30K is Cal Poly SLO and it beats UVA for engineering with in-state tuition of $20K. The remaining Cal States are around $20k or cheaper in tuition. San Diego State is a great option if a kid wants sunny, gorgeous campus, rah rah and a great education.

PP here.. It doesn't matter how long ago it was. What matters is now, and right now, the col in CA is ridiculous (it's part of why we moved from CA). That difference of $10K can easily be eaten up by flights (a few times per year) and the high cost of living, and not just housing cost. Gas prices in CA are *insane* I still have family in CA and visit often. We were floored by the gas and food prices there. I love CA (lived there my whole life), but I would only live there if I had a ton of money.

My DC wants to go to CA, but we discussed the cost/benefit, and it's not worth it for CSU schools (they are not a eng/CS major).

Also, SLO is a regional school and has a great reputation regionally. I'm not a rah rah UVA fan (never even thought about the existence of it before I moved here), but cost/benefit wise, UVA eng would beat SLO if you live in VA.

Obviously, if money is not a factor, then none of this matters. But, for most people, cost is definitely a factor.

This is like spending $80K on an expensive car just because you want and too many people drive the $40K, but the $40K is more value for money and a really good car that is more reliable than that $80K car.

Yeah. But we were always into education, not cars. Drive those Hondas into the ground. Invested in real estate and education. Those were our priorities---not fancy brands or German cars or Teslas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

(Yes I get that “curious about a different vibe” is not the same thing.

Paying $80k/year for "a different vibe" is almost the stupidest fscking thing ever -- the stupidest thing ever is the parents permitting this.

Did I say anywhere in my post that you’re responding to that the ROI is worth it? No. Chill, Jane. I have no opinion.

I do however sense that maybe your life choices concerning choice of career, number of kids, etc maybe do not afford you the full range of options and to pay for college tuition?

[Anonymous]

This was my story decades ago as a FCPS HS graduate - I attended college with a large percentage of my equally large HS graduating class.

I purposely made decisions to avoid making college Grade 13. I started by being randomly matched with a roommate. Then I independently joined activities like intramurals and interest groups that I wanted to try.

Point is your DC will have to make these decisions independently. There was a huge group of HS friends who all stuck together from freshman year til graduation- they were all very happy and close and I know we had two entirely different college experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you so blinded by the alleged glamor of this tiny part of the country that you don’t see that the kid wants to experience something different than what he’s spent his whole life experiencing?

Maybe he wants to cheer for Ohio State as HIS team. Maybe he wants to have a romance with a belle from Biloxi or a damsel from Dubuque. Find some automatic merit aid that brings the net price down to $35k & let the kid stretch his legs.

+1. Let the kid learn and grow in (gasp!) a different area of the country!

[Anonymous]

OP, give your kid options!

One can choose an out of state option and retain their other friends, be it high school or other stages of life.

Such is life!

[Anonymous]

I can't believe this is a thread, yet again. This subject has been discussed to death. Most of the state schools in VA are large enough that you are never going to see anyone from HS unless you make a point to do so. My DC goes to VT and says she never, ever sees anyone from her high school. Her college friends are from all over VA and states across the country.

In short, this is a nonissue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really would prefer my DC (HS class of 2026) stay in VA-both due to proximity and also cost, However they feel that they do not want the social continuation of their HS-with the top 10% academically going to UVA, top 30% to VTECH and most of the rest of the kids to JMU, VCU, GMU or NOVA. We are in a high achieving public HS in NOVA.

Have any of your kids expressed similar view?

It doesn't work like that at all. Assuming your HS has 500 kids in their grade and 20% end up at VT, that's 100. Once you are done dividign them across the various majors, you are unlikely to have more than a handful of kids in your DC's major. Even within that not everyone takes the same classes given AP credits, etc. Now intersect that number with the kids your DC actually knows in HS. Unless she is Miss Popularity, she likely knows about a 100 kids. You are looking at a very small number of 'same old' kids from her HS she will be interacting with.

DP. I agree with most of your post, but in no world are 20% of a graduating class of 500 attending the same school. So there is actually even less of a chance of being with anyone from HS, assuming a school like VT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can understand this. I wanted to go away and have 0 of my high school classmates at my college. And I loved high school and had lots of friends!
The other problem with instate is that even if the other kids aren't from your high school, they're still mostly from your state. It may be a big school, but it feels similar enough to high school.

Well guess what the kids from any other state just aren't going to be all that different from the kids from your state. There really aren't any state or regional differences any more. And in particular, the type of kids a DCUM kid from the wealthy DC suburbs is likely to meet won't be very different from the kids from other wealthy suburbs in California or wherever.

That aside I went to a state flagship and never saw anyone from high school.

THIS! The people insisting a school in some other state is somehow going to be so much more interesting than their own state school just sound idiotic.

[Anonymous]

yes, but it does the that Virginia vibe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think kids (and parents) with this view are actually very narrow-minded and immature. A cluster of students from your high school will be completely diluted at large state schools like UVA, JMU, and VT. This “continuation of high school” myth is just that…a myth.

+100
I think there are some people who smugly like to make these claims, as they spend $$$$ just to send their own kids OOS somewhere. They tell themselves this nonsense to somehow justify paying outrageous sums of money for their kids to mix and mingle with... the same types of kids who go to their own state schools.

[Anonymous]

"13th Grade" is just a teen comment expressing that they want to spread their wings. And they should, if it's a luxury the parents can afford.