I guess I don’t get why infidelity is a big deal if sex before marriage isn’t

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I have a very small sample of actual data here, but I would wager that couples who have sex before marriage are less likely to experience infidelity than those who do not.


Couples who don't provide and seek good character, are more likely to cheat or get cheated on.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:OP here- I’m not saying cheating is ok, I’m saying that the reaction to the physical act of having sex with another person seems particularly outsized when you consider how casually sex is now treated outside of marriage.

I’ve read posts on this forum of women being devastated for years and years after the discovery of their husband’s affair. To a certain extent I understand the devastation is because of the broken trust and everything that came with the infidelity, but I also think there’s more to it than that. I don’t think that same reaction would happen with an emotional affair.

And to a degree when you see how triggered people seem to be by the concept of an “open marriage.”


But would the reaction be the same to a one night stand, as opposed to a full blown affair? I don't think so, and many comments on the thread have backed this up. People are much more hurt by infidelity in the form of a relationship than infidelity in the form of just sex. And lying is big too, because it makes people feel dumb.

I think it's about the combination of emotions and sex.

I also think that for women, the risk that their husband might get another woman pregnant is a big part of it, especially if you have kids. A lot of women talk about the betrayal of an affair of being a betrayal of their family, not just them specifically. A man who cheats and starts another family with someone else has robbed his older children of many things at once.
Anonymous
If you agree to marry someone you agree to forsake all others. Cheating is the opposite of that.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Humans are not meant to be monogamous.


I agree. The problem is keeping jealousy out of it.


I agree. A a wife in my social circle has noticed that her husband has a crush on me. She hates me but keeps it under wraps and instead tried to orchestrate everything so that we can’t cross paths. Don’t ask how I know this because I’m not going to share and out myself, but I know.

Luckily I’m not interested in this guy whatsoever. But what if I was? She’d probably put a hit out on me. Jealousy is such a silly thing and makes people go crazy.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Humans are not meant to be monogamous.


Speak for yourself.

If YOU are a person for whom that would be difficult, don't get married. It is that simple. If you got married, you made a vow to someone. If you can't meet that obligation, end the marriage honestly.

Any other route is BS selfishness.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:A lot of what goes on concurrent to infidelity is trash behavior- lying, gaslighting, projecting, meanness, potentially giving your partner an STD. But to me this seems so much worse than the actual act of a physical affair itself.

When I read about the trauma and the betrayal of an affair and how it is the breaking of a sacred vow, it makes me feel like we are time traveling to the 1700’s or a time when a person was assumed to be a virgin before marriage. We have such a casual attitude about sex but suddenly you get married and bam- we are back to the old tradition where sexuality is sacred. Either sex is a sacred special thing or it isn’t. I don’t know how it can be both.

I don’t mean to sound like Esther Perel or something but I guess I do. I grew up in a very, very conservative family and I grew up with these extremely rigid attitudes about sex and I guess I see infidelity as a mistake now- a really really bad one, but a mistake nonetheless.


It is not that sex becomes sacred. It is that you are breaking a commitment/vow/promise to another person.

How can you not understand this. Grow up, OP.
Anonymous
It depends on what kind of a marriage you have. A secular one which is really just a social contract or a religious one that requires fidelity?

If you only want a contract, don’t lie by agreeing to a religious ceremony in which fidelity is promised openly. Otherwise, you are being dishonest.

Ester Perel is from the Netherlands, correct? She also takes a secular view of marriage and other relationships. So take what she says with an awareness of her perspective.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Humans are not meant to be monogamous.


No, you don’t want to be monogamous. Speak for yourself and check your ego.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:A lot of what goes on concurrent to infidelity is trash behavior- lying, gaslighting, projecting, meanness, potentially giving your partner an STD. But to me this seems so much worse than the actual act of a physical affair itself.

When I read about the trauma and the betrayal of an affair and how it is the breaking of a sacred vow, it makes me feel like we are time traveling to the 1700’s or a time when a person was assumed to be a virgin before marriage. We have such a casual attitude about sex but suddenly you get married and bam- we are back to the old tradition where sexuality is sacred. Either sex is a sacred special thing or it isn’t. I don’t know how it can be both.

I don’t mean to sound like Esther Perel or something but I guess I do. I grew up in a very, very conservative family and I grew up with these extremely rigid attitudes about sex and I guess I see infidelity as a mistake now- a really really bad one, but a mistake nonetheless. [/quote


Guess you didn't vow to "forsake ALL others?" Don't get married if you can't be faithful
Anonymous
It’s truly not an apples to apples comparison. There are vows and commitments in a marriage and if people don’t want to live monogamously there’s no requirement to get married.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's the betrayal. Sex before marriage isn't harming and deceiving a spouse you've committed to. (I know some ultra religious folks would say it is, but a hypothetical future person is just not the same as one you've already, specifically chosen and married.)


DP. I can see that.

On the other hand are:

sexless marriages.

When one spouse (of any sex) has desire for regular intercourse, but the other spouse (of any sex) has zero desire, why would there be any issue at all about sexual activity outside the marriage?


In other words: if you don’t want sex with them, why can’t they do it with other people?


In the catholic church you can divorce for being in a sexless marriage so I don't understand your point.


Reread your catechism, sweetie.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A lot of what goes on concurrent to infidelity is trash behavior- lying, gaslighting, projecting, meanness, potentially giving your partner an STD. But to me this seems so much worse than the actual act of a physical affair itself.

When I read about the trauma and the betrayal of an affair and how it is the breaking of a sacred vow, it makes me feel like we are time traveling to the 1700’s or a time when a person was assumed to be a virgin before marriage. We have such a casual attitude about sex but suddenly you get married and bam- we are back to the old tradition where sexuality is sacred. Either sex is a sacred special thing or it isn’t. I don’t know how it can be both.

I don’t mean to sound like Esther Perel or something but I guess I do. I grew up in a very, very conservative family and I grew up with these extremely rigid attitudes about sex and I guess I see infidelity as a mistake now- a really really bad one, but a mistake nonetheless.


You're framing this weirdly. The sex isn't the point, the vow of fidelity is the point. There's no premarital vow of fidelity that is broken when someone has sex before marriage (unless you were raised in one of those creepy "promise ring with daddy to keep your hymen until he says you can give it to the guy he chooses" communities). Where there is no expectation of fidelity, sex is a personal choice.

Once you've looked someone in the eyes and told them you'll be exclusive, the 'personal choice' you make to sleep with someone else is an indication of a lack of integrity on your part, not just a high sex drive. No one is obligated to get married, or even to participate in exclusive relationships. But if you do either, and then cheat on your partner, the problem is not the sex. It's that you're breaking your word. You're trying to frame infidelity is an extension of sex positivity, but what you're looking for is a free love scenario. Sleep with whomever you want, whenever you want. Just don't promise anyone fidelity at the same time.


+1

Posts like these give me hope for DCUM


But people break their word all that time. My partner promised me they'd go on vacation with me to this place I really want to go. I get all excited. Then they decided that don't want to go.

You’re equating vacation planning to making marriage vows? We can’t help you.


+1

I hope you exposed your moral autism to your spouse before you got married.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A lot of what goes on concurrent to infidelity is trash behavior- lying, gaslighting, projecting, meanness, potentially giving your partner an STD. But to me this seems so much worse than the actual act of a physical affair itself.

When I read about the trauma and the betrayal of an affair and how it is the breaking of a sacred vow, it makes me feel like we are time traveling to the 1700’s or a time when a person was assumed to be a virgin before marriage. We have such a casual attitude about sex but suddenly you get married and bam- we are back to the old tradition where sexuality is sacred. Either sex is a sacred special thing or it isn’t. I don’t know how it can be both.

I don’t mean to sound like Esther Perel or something but I guess I do. I grew up in a very, very conservative family and I grew up with these extremely rigid attitudes about sex and I guess I see infidelity as a mistake now- a really really bad one, but a mistake nonetheless.


You're framing this weirdly. The sex isn't the point, the vow of fidelity is the point. There's no premarital vow of fidelity that is broken when someone has sex before marriage (unless you were raised in one of those creepy "promise ring with daddy to keep your hymen until he says you can give it to the guy he chooses" communities). Where there is no expectation of fidelity, sex is a personal choice.

Once you've looked someone in the eyes and told them you'll be exclusive, the 'personal choice' you make to sleep with someone else is an indication of a lack of integrity on your part, not just a high sex drive. No one is obligated to get married, or even to participate in exclusive relationships. But if you do either, and then cheat on your partner, the problem is not the sex. It's that you're breaking your word. You're trying to frame infidelity is an extension of sex positivity, but what you're looking for is a free love scenario. Sleep with whomever you want, whenever you want. Just don't promise anyone fidelity at the same time.


+1

Posts like these give me hope for DCUM


But people break their word all that time. My partner promised me they'd go on vacation with me to this place I really want to go. I get all excited. Then they decided that don't want to go.

You’re equating vacation planning to making marriage vows? We can’t help you.


+1

I hope you exposed your moral autism to your spouse before you got married.


WTF is "moral autism?" Or is autism now an all purpose insult? Talk about immoral...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It's the betrayal. Sex before marriage isn't harming and deceiving a spouse you've committed to. (I know some ultra religious folks would say it is, but a hypothetical future person is just not the same as one you've already, specifically chosen and married.)


DP. I can see that.

On the other hand are:

sexless marriages.

When one spouse (of any sex) has desire for regular intercourse, but the other spouse (of any sex) has zero desire, why would there be any issue at all about sexual activity outside the marriage?


In other words: if you don’t want sex with them, why can’t they do it with other people?


In the catholic church you can divorce for being in a sexless marriage so I don't understand your point.


Reread your catechism, sweetie.

Learn your catechism, honey.
Divorce is permitted by the Church for grave reason and when all other alternatives have been exhausted. Sexual intercourse is a marriage debt and avoidance for lengths of period of time (apart from illness, etc) is a grave sin, which is a starting point for a civil claim.
Again, learn your catechism, sweetie pie.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A lot of what goes on concurrent to infidelity is trash behavior- lying, gaslighting, projecting, meanness, potentially giving your partner an STD. But to me this seems so much worse than the actual act of a physical affair itself.

When I read about the trauma and the betrayal of an affair and how it is the breaking of a sacred vow, it makes me feel like we are time traveling to the 1700’s or a time when a person was assumed to be a virgin before marriage. We have such a casual attitude about sex but suddenly you get married and bam- we are back to the old tradition where sexuality is sacred. Either sex is a sacred special thing or it isn’t. I don’t know how it can be both.

I don’t mean to sound like Esther Perel or something but I guess I do. I grew up in a very, very conservative family and I grew up with these extremely rigid attitudes about sex and I guess I see infidelity as a mistake now- a really really bad one, but a mistake nonetheless.


You're framing this weirdly. The sex isn't the point, the vow of fidelity is the point. There's no premarital vow of fidelity that is broken when someone has sex before marriage (unless you were raised in one of those creepy "promise ring with daddy to keep your hymen until he says you can give it to the guy he chooses" communities). Where there is no expectation of fidelity, sex is a personal choice.

Once you've looked someone in the eyes and told them you'll be exclusive, the 'personal choice' you make to sleep with someone else is an indication of a lack of integrity on your part, not just a high sex drive. No one is obligated to get married, or even to participate in exclusive relationships. But if you do either, and then cheat on your partner, the problem is not the sex. It's that you're breaking your word. You're trying to frame infidelity is an extension of sex positivity, but what you're looking for is a free love scenario. Sleep with whomever you want, whenever you want. Just don't promise anyone fidelity at the same time.


+1

Posts like these give me hope for DCUM


But people break their word all that time. My partner promised me they'd go on vacation with me to this place I really want to go. I get all excited. Then they decided that don't want to go.

You’re equating vacation planning to making marriage vows? We can’t help you.


+1

I hope you exposed your moral autism to your spouse before you got married.


Stay classy, PP
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