S/O is anyone not bothered by the “mental load”?

[Anonymous]

I live in the future, so this kind of thing doesn't bother me. What does is when DH tells me I'm "worrying" by planning things out. I'm not - I'm just making the future me less stressed out!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

I do find people who complain about it to be whiny, yes. And usually they're being a lot more elaborate than is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

Yeah same. It does take some time, like maybe a couple hours a week, to think through and coordinate logistics? But I don't agonize over it. It's totally fine.

I wish one of us was like you. We are moving to a new city, and everything from arranging kids schools to getting the house updated to sell to getting the mortgage on the new house is falling on me. Plus laundry and cooking and homework and parent teacher conferences and making sure everyone has pants and paper and sharpened pencils.
It all feels overwhelming sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

[Anonymous]

Doesn’t bother me at all because I am a control freak anyway. Also I don’t share any of the financial load so that helps. I’m happy to take on all the household planning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I organize and plan pretty much everything for my family and it doesn’t bother me. My husband and I work FT - he’s WAH, I’m WOH - about equal hours, but he makes three times what I do. We have three kids and share most of the housework (just hired cleaners to come every two weeks), but I do all of the cooking and he does all of the laundry. He does a lot of the hands on parenting while I am the one enrolling in camps, organizing birthday parties, planning vacations etc. (and also staying on top of our finances). I’m pretty Type A and a natural planner so it really doesn’t bother me and I don’t feel bogged down by it. I guess it’s hard for me to understand why some people feel like it’s so intolerable - it’s just part of being an adult! You would have a mental load even if it were just you!

The part you don't realize is more adults don't want to be adults. Yes, being organized and a good spouse/parent doesn't have to be hard if you're mature. But, too many parents are immature and lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

Not the PP but is it possible that different kids need different things? Great that your kids are happy with some water guns and a swing. Other kids might want to be engaged in a bigger world than that. It shouldn’t be surprising that different kids are…different. Some homebodies, some extroverted adventurers (I have one of each). It takes all kinds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

It sounds like you don’t work during the day and don’t use childcare. I I’m not sure why you are commenting on summer childcare arrangements at all.
And are you seriously suggesting the pp should tell her husband to hire a nanny if the kids are unhappy at camp?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

Not the PP but is it possible that different kids need different things? Great that your kids are happy with some water guns and a swing. Other kids might want to be engaged in a bigger world than that. It shouldn’t be surprising that different kids are…different. Some homebodies, some extroverted adventurers (I have one of each). It takes all kinds.

And it takes all kinds of parents too. If you like to plan for things that are not essential, go ahead and do it. But quit whining and being resentful. You can drop all these things, and your kids will still be amazing and extroverted adventurers.

My kids are actually overscheduled between music, athletics, plus Math competition. I don't mind planning these things. But I know that they are not essential so I don't complain. I happily do them.

If I had to plan all the doctor's and dentist appointments, teachers conferences etc, I'd probably complain because these are essential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

Not the PP but is it possible that different kids need different things? Great that your kids are happy with some water guns and a swing. Other kids might want to be engaged in a bigger world than that. It shouldn’t be surprising that different kids are…different. Some homebodies, some extroverted adventurers (I have one of each). It takes all kinds.

And it takes all kinds of parents too. If you like to plan for things that are not essential, go ahead and do it. But quit whining and being resentful. You can drop all these things, and your kids will still be amazing and extroverted adventurers.

My kids are actually overscheduled between music, athletics, plus Math competition. I don't mind planning these things. But I know that they are not essential so I don't complain. I happily do them.

If I had to plan all the doctor's and dentist appointments, teachers conferences etc, I'd probably complain because these are essential.

It sounds like you don’t view having a job as essential, so it’s okay with you if your kids don’t have childcare and you are in charge of managing the household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

It sounds like you don’t work during the day and don’t use childcare. I I’m not sure why you are commenting on summer childcare arrangements at all.
And are you seriously suggesting the pp should tell her husband to hire a nanny if the kids are unhappy at camp?

Try again.

I usually work about 50-60 hours a week


Yes, she and her DH can hire a nanny or a sitter. These camps are not cheap. What is so strange about that? Where did she keep her 4 year old during the school year? ( and yes, she is the one who brought up a 4 year old in her original reply to rationalize her matyrdom).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

Not the PP but is it possible that different kids need different things? Great that your kids are happy with some water guns and a swing. Other kids might want to be engaged in a bigger world than that. It shouldn’t be surprising that different kids are…different. Some homebodies, some extroverted adventurers (I have one of each). It takes all kinds.

And it takes all kinds of parents too. If you like to plan for things that are not essential, go ahead and do it. But quit whining and being resentful. You can drop all these things, and your kids will still be amazing and extroverted adventurers.

My kids are actually overscheduled between music, athletics, plus Math competition. I don't mind planning these things. But I know that they are not essential so I don't complain. I happily do them.

If I had to plan all the doctor's and dentist appointments, teachers conferences etc, I'd probably complain because these are essential.

It sounds like you don’t view having a job as essential, so it’s okay with you if your kids don’t have childcare and you are in charge of managing the household.

I know it's hard for you to imagine that there are women out there who are happy with their careers and family life: women who are not looking for every tiny excuse to be miserable matyrs. Sorry to disappoint you: we exist.

Keep being bitter about having to schedule camps your children don't need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I guess that my husband takes care of the Christmas cards and the purple shirt situation.
I guess I think of the “mental load” as making sure that there are clean shirts (and pants and socks and underpants and coats and pajamas and shoes and boots and gloves and snow pants) of the appropriate size all of the other days.
I don’t send the Christmas cards, but I know when Christmas mass is and whether or not the kids are singing, what they have to wear, that they have their religious sacraments done and get to religious Ed (or teach it myself if no one else does) and get to choir practice and regularly volunteer.

It isn’t that I hate doing this stuff. Most of it I would still do even if we divorced. It’s that I wish it were appreciated. And I really can’t handle it when it’s criticized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The conversation around mental labor is so challenging because women take it as axiomatic that men “should” care about all the things (summer camps registration, Christmas cards, Larlo needs a purple shirt on Thursday for school, etc.). They just literally will never care about these things the way women do, and frankly, rarely manage these tasks as well as women.

I liken this to the way men are endlessly frustrated that their wives don’t “want” them as much as they “should” intimately. It just is. No amount of frustration or exasperation or explaining how his wife “should want” to do xyz with him in bed will ever change the fact that women by and large will never want the way men do.

Once I accepted that my DH just won’t care as much as I do (but will take any labor domain I ask), it was so freeing! I don’t expect him to get the kids ready ever. I don’t mind doing it anymore, because it’s not even a question to me that he won’t. BUT I’ve gotten super comfortable leaving certain domains entirely to him (all the laundry, all the cooking, all the car stuff), and I take all the kid stuff.

I am the PP who wrote about medical issues and I think most people realize that Christmas Cards and spirit week are optional. Summer camp is child care for us so finding adequate coverage that won’t require driving all over is not optional.

I’ve written this before in the SN forum but I feel like what happens is a game of chicken. I could just wait and see if my husband found *some* camp for my kids but I am not willing to make my kids unhappy all summer to prove a point. So the way I deal is to do the things I care about and just not feel guilty at all when stuff doesn’t get handled. For example, I found all those specialists, rearranged my schedule and got my kids cared for. My husband’s job was to submit for re-imburstment (since many top doctors don’t take insurance, yay America). He didn’t and didn’t and didn’t. It probably cost us several thousands of dollars over the years. Oh well. My kids got the care they needed and we paid our bills. To me, this is the equivalent of not doing spirit week or whatever. You may feel differently! But when you do all the work you get to prioritize what you make sure happens.

Either the bolded us in your mind or you have raised some entitled kids. If they are old enough to be unhappy about summer camps, they are old enough to do the research and do most of the planning.

What?
What age do you think kids are old enough to be unhappy and articulate why? I would say maybe 4 years old at the latest.

My kids could research and plan their summers until they were teens. Long past the need for childcare.

So your 4 year old was upset because they couldn't get into.the special camp they got into when they were 3?

Four year olds I know can tell me if they are unhappy at school or in a new foster family.

Why would a kid only be unhappy if they didn’t get something super special? Kids are usually unhappy because they are in a crappy situation.

Great. So you are agreeing with me that 4 year olds couldn't care less about their parents signing them up for special camps.

I’m guessing that you don’t have kids or your kids aren’t in childcare at all. Only 10% of daycares are rated as “high quality.” (Meaning caregivers give hugs, encouragement, read to kids, etc). The number may be higher for summer camps, but I think we can pretty easily say that it’s not more than 30-40%.

If I could change that and make it so 90% of camps and daycares were happy, positive environments where kids were encouraged to play and never ignored or yelled at, then I would. But I don’t have that ability. All I can do is make sure that my kid goes to a good one.

I’m the PP here who said I did sign up for camp because I didn’t want my kids to be unhappy. All the other replies were not me but were other parents who have some idea of how terrible “camps” can be. Who ever is writing all these responses either has had exceptionally good luck and no friends or has never had a child at camp or most likely is a very uninvolved parent who likes to denigrate their partner’s efforts to selecting quality child care. This is the first summer either child will go to a single specialty camp. But making sure they got spots at places where I trusted issues would be handled adequately and they would be kept safe is a huge priority for me. So many horror stories about kids who are bullied an entire camp because it’s staffed mostly by 12 year old “counselors in training”.

If it makes it easier for you to sleep well, go ahead and believe the bolded.

I am the mother. I make the plans. DH executes them.
A 4/5/6/7/8 year old does not need to go to any camp to be happy. If you are so concerned about unsafe camps (you need a chill pill) hire a nanny/sister who can take them to playgrounds and they will be happy. And an older child (9 and above) should be helping you do the planning.

My kids did some camps when they were 8 and under - dance, went to the public school camps for a couple of hours, a few nature camps offered by our city, etc. They did not have to do any of these. There is a swing in the backyard and water guns in the garage, plenty of books in the house and in the library. That could have kept them happy all summer.

Complaining about being responsible for planning for health, education etc makes sense. Complaining about camps for kids who would be equally happy at home playing in the backyard is being a mommy matyr. Good luck to you!

Not the PP but is it possible that different kids need different things? Great that your kids are happy with some water guns and a swing. Other kids might want to be engaged in a bigger world than that. It shouldn’t be surprising that different kids are…different. Some homebodies, some extroverted adventurers (I have one of each). It takes all kinds.

And it takes all kinds of parents too. If you like to plan for things that are not essential, go ahead and do it. But quit whining and being resentful. You can drop all these things, and your kids will still be amazing and extroverted adventurers.

My kids are actually overscheduled between music, athletics, plus Math competition. I don't mind planning these things. But I know that they are not essential so I don't complain. I happily do them.

If I had to plan all the doctor's and dentist appointments, teachers conferences etc, I'd probably complain because these are essential.

It sounds like you don’t view having a job as essential, so it’s okay with you if your kids don’t have childcare and you are in charge of managing the household.

I know it's hard for you to imagine that there are women out there who are happy with their careers and family life: women who are not looking for every tiny excuse to be miserable matyrs. Sorry to disappoint you: we exist.

Keep being bitter about having to schedule camps your children don't need.

I’m not bitter.
I just think it’s odd to happily leave your small kids alone to play on the swing in the backyard all day while you and your spouse are at work.

Most people consider childcare to be necessary for the under 8 set.
It sounds like everything worked out well for your family though!