APS Retake Policy change announced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

Bring back formative grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

Bring back formative grades.

+1 The original case for putting the strong weight on summative grades - consistent with standards based grading - was to reward the mastery of content no matter the path to get there. Having summative grades still carrying the disproportionate weight while also capping the opportunity for grade improvement with a retake disincentives mastery and will lead to a number of students giving up on actually trying to learn the material - even if it takes more time - because there’s no upside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

Bring back formative grades.

+1 The original case for putting the strong weight on summative grades - consistent with standards based grading - was to reward the mastery of content no matter the path to get there. Having summative grades still carrying the disproportionate weight while also capping the opportunity for grade improvement with a retake disincentives mastery and will lead to a number of students giving up on actually trying to learn the material - even if it takes more time - because there’s no upside.

I agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

Bring back formative grades.

+1 The original case for putting the strong weight on summative grades - consistent with standards based grading - was to reward the mastery of content no matter the path to get there. Having summative grades still carrying the disproportionate weight while also capping the opportunity for grade improvement with a retake disincentives mastery and will lead to a number of students giving up on actually trying to learn the material - even if it takes more time - because there’s no upside.

100%

My kid does the homework. If they get an 85%, they will consider retaking b/c they can make corrections, learn what went wrong and hopefully get it right on future assessments. Now, there is no incentive to make that up. Also, 80% is not sufficient to show aptitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

Bring back formative grades.

+1 The original case for putting the strong weight on summative grades - consistent with standards based grading - was to reward the mastery of content no matter the path to get there. Having summative grades still carrying the disproportionate weight while also capping the opportunity for grade improvement with a retake disincentives mastery and will lead to a number of students giving up on actually trying to learn the material - even if it takes more time - because there’s no upside.

100%

My kid does the homework. If they get an 85%, they will consider retaking b/c they can make corrections, learn what went wrong and hopefully get it right on future assessments. Now, there is no incentive to make that up. Also, 80% is not sufficient to show aptitude.

Tell our educational experts at Syphax 80% is not sufficient. The email announcing this said explicitly it was sufficient. So now we know that on SBG your student who mastered something might actually be a B- student.

[Anonymous]

I have middle schoolers, but don't kids have cumulative final exams? It's that enough of a reason for a kid who got a B on a test to go back and figure out what they did wrong and learn that material?

[Anonymous]

I think people who say kids were “exploiting” or “abusing” the policy are somewhat incorrect. The policy was that kids were alllowed to re-take tests/summative assessments, and that’s what kids were doing. They were using the policy as stated. Aps should have been more thoughtful in their statement of the policy, but kids were not misusing it. Additionally, there were a few teachers who were not really using the policy in the spirit it was intended. I think teachers (adults) who are trying to game the systems is much shadier. For example- one teacher changed all of their tests to quizzes (which cannot be made up) and were say 98 pts instead of 100. Then they just gave one huge test at the end of the quarter. The “quizzes” were essentially tests- in the previous year they were but this year they were just “quizzes.” Or teachers who create a huge barrier of busy work that they will not go over or meet to help you with before you can re-take the test. The busy work has no bearing on learning- it’s just gatekeeping. Or a teacher who won’t let kids re-take the test until a month after the initial test to “see if you are really going to study.” I find this kind of passive aggressive distortion of the policy to be more egregious.

Additionally, I think the “there are no re-takes or do overs in the real world” reasoning is not true. Sure there are fireable offenses or people who make big mistakes. But people ask bosses for extra time or prioritize one task over another knowing that they can go back and improve the task that they back burnered. You can ask for an extension on filing your taxes. You can go to office hours at college and get help with assignments or talk about an extension in extreme situations. You can get an “incomplete” and finish a course later. You can take a course pass/fail. Life is filled with opportunities. It’s not as extreme as people are suggesting. The people who want kids to “understand the real world” are the same people who are walking uphill to school and back home🙄

[Anonymous]

APS finally got it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people who say kids were “exploiting” or “abusing” the policy are somewhat incorrect. The policy was that kids were alllowed to re-take tests/summative assessments, and that’s what kids were doing. They were using the policy as stated. Aps should have been more thoughtful in their statement of the policy, but kids were not misusing it. Additionally, there were a few teachers who were not really using the policy in the spirit it was intended. I think teachers (adults) who are trying to game the systems is much shadier. For example- one teacher changed all of their tests to quizzes (which cannot be made up) and were say 98 pts instead of 100. Then they just gave one huge test at the end of the quarter. The “quizzes” were essentially tests- in the previous year they were but this year they were just “quizzes.” Or teachers who create a huge barrier of busy work that they will not go over or meet to help you with before you can re-take the test. The busy work has no bearing on learning- it’s just gatekeeping. Or a teacher who won’t let kids re-take the test until a month after the initial test to “see if you are really going to study.” I find this kind of passive aggressive distortion of the policy to be more egregious.

Additionally, I think the “there are no re-takes or do overs in the real world” reasoning is not true. Sure there are fireable offenses or people who make big mistakes. But people ask bosses for extra time or prioritize one task over another knowing that they can go back and improve the task that they back burnered. You can ask for an extension on filing your taxes. You can go to office hours at college and get help with assignments or talk about an extension in extreme situations. You can get an “incomplete” and finish a course later. You can take a course pass/fail. Life is filled with opportunities. It’s not as extreme as people are suggesting. The people who want kids to “understand the real world” are the same people who are walking uphill to school and back home🙄

Yes, DD's math teacher turned all tests into quizzes to get around the retake policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have middle schoolers, but don't kids have cumulative final exams? It's that enough of a reason for a kid who got a B on a test to go back and figure out what they did wrong and learn that material?

In some classes, but the retake policy made the teacher go over "corrections" to help the student figure out what they did wrong and correct it. It has been immensely helpful to my student's learning. The fact that this wasn't happening previously is the bigger issue in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have middle schoolers, but don't kids have cumulative final exams? It's that enough of a reason for a kid who got a B on a test to go back and figure out what they did wrong and learn that material?

In some classes, but the retake policy made the teacher go over "corrections" to help the student figure out what they did wrong and correct it. It has been immensely helpful to my student's learning. The fact that this wasn't happening previously is the bigger issue in my opinion.

+100. My kid is actually learning and retaining math so much better this year with the way her teacher does retakes. It's a lot of work to do the test corrections and go over everything before being allowed to retake the test but it has been immensely helpful. She is not abusing the system and does not have an A in the class but seems to be on much stronger footing. Agree completely that it should have been happening all along and not just as a result of a retake policy

[Anonymous]

Retaking for an A is not abusing the system. It is retaking for better comprehension.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have middle schoolers, but don't kids have cumulative final exams? It's that enough of a reason for a kid who got a B on a test to go back and figure out what they did wrong and learn that material?

In some classes, but the retake policy made the teacher go over "corrections" to help the student figure out what they did wrong and correct it. It has been immensely helpful to my student's learning. The fact that this wasn't happening previously is the bigger issue in my opinion.

+100. My kid is actually learning and retaining math so much better this year with the way her teacher does retakes. It's a lot of work to do the test corrections and go over everything before being allowed to retake the test but it has been immensely helpful. She is not abusing the system and does not have an A in the class but seems to be on much stronger footing. Agree completely that it should have been happening all along and not just as a result of a retake policy

Agree - same experience with our child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

Bring back formative grades.

+1 The original case for putting the strong weight on summative grades - consistent with standards based grading - was to reward the mastery of content no matter the path to get there. Having summative grades still carrying the disproportionate weight while also capping the opportunity for grade improvement with a retake disincentives mastery and will lead to a number of students giving up on actually trying to learn the material - even if it takes more time - because there’s no upside.

100%

My kid does the homework. If they get an 85%, they will consider retaking b/c they can make corrections, learn what went wrong and hopefully get it right on future assessments. Now, there is no incentive to make that up. Also, 80% is not sufficient to show aptitude.

Bring back cumulative final exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have middle schoolers, but don't kids have cumulative final exams? It's that enough of a reason for a kid who got a B on a test to go back and figure out what they did wrong and learn that material?

No, finals generally don't seem to be cumulative anymore.