APS Retake Policy change announced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My question is -- how do colleges know how to weigh one school system vs another if one county allows retakes, which allows a B student to try for a A, and another doesn't? GPA is meaningless in these situations.

Admissions Officers have territories and are supposed to be familiar with the high schools in their area and the rigor of the school.

But also this is why test optional doesn't really work. They have remove one of the major tools they had to get a better sense of how kids compare to each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the reason homework is not graded because parents do the homework?

No. It's been described as an equity issue. It's also why now grades in a class are skewed such that Summative assessments (i.e. tests) have far more weight than Formative (i.e. homework). APS doesn't want to disadvantage kids with home lives that aren't conducive to doing homework. Examples such as limited internet access, need to watch younger family members or hold after school jobs, and so on.

But when kids aren't getting their quiz grades back before a test, they have zero graded feedback. I greatly dislike the change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax permits retake to an 80 (B-) at teacher discretion. Alternative is to allow recovery points to a B- if you do better on that pet of the midterm/final. That is rational. Retake to an A is absurd.

The overall policy in FCPS is that you must allow re-takes or test corrections- end of policy. Some teachers allow re-takes up to 100 some up to 90, some up to 80- that is up to teacher discretion. Teachers of the same course at each school have the same policy. FCPS has had this policy since Sept. 2020.

Personally, I am surprised at the mid year switch. FCPS had some hiccups and teachers adjusted their policies from year to year, but a mid year policy that can negatively impact students is pretty bold decision of APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

No. He was probably destined for a B anyway. My issue is that grading policies should not change halfway through a school year. This is particularly impactful for juniors. There is nothing in the original policy implementation document from June that said APS would assess after first semester and reserve the right to change it at any time.

Have to assume you are the parent of a straight A student based on this remark. Would you be okay if halfway through the school year they made, say, a different policy change -- maybe one that changed the grading scale and lowered GPA's for the second half of a school year? Probably not. The merits of grading scales and policies can and should be argued. But once they are approved, they should not be changed in the middle of a school year.

Not sure why you have to assume that; but actually, a parent of one straight-A student and one all over the board C-average (largely due to not submitting work, giving minimum effort) student.

This change does not actually lower anyone's GPA. It might lower some students' potential GPA by limiting their ability to re-take and get A's instead of B's. But it doesn't change any GPA already earned. Those getting below B's can still strive for B's.
From a straight/mostly straight-A student perspective: this is a fairer policy in that those who earn their A's the first time aren't viewed as the same/get the same recognitions as those who didn't. It's really just the "B" students who potentially "suffer" under the change.

I am sympathetic to students who work hard the whole way through and just need extra time/instruction/practice to master material. I am less sympathetic for students who just aren't managing their time well and don't turn in assignments or don't turn them in on time, or just rely on re-takes to get better grades. The former is who the policy is really intended for. Despite the typical Arlington parent perspective, B students are still able to be quite successful in life even if they don't get accepted by one of the most elite institutions. Hence my quotes around "suffer" above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

Is this pertaining to quizzes or exams? Or is it both?

DP. Summative means tests.

So in the above example, perhaps more quizzes along the way would have been beneficial to assess the student's understanding and need for reviewing mistakes with the teacher prior to the test. Math is a subject that warrants frequent evaluation and check-ins.

I'm the PP. Yes, more quizzes would have been better, but there are none in his class. Just 3 tests per quarter. And homework which is not graded (completion only) and is only due the day before the test. That is not how you learn calculus well. The retakes filled in the teaching gaps.

We have almost the exact situation in a language class. Only tests … and homework is not graded so guess what the kids don’t do it. Not a great way to reinforce learning.

This is the bad policy, bad instructing that is the bigger problem and needs to be corrected. Homework doesn't have to be graded; but it should be "corrected" and reviewed and re-worked. If students choose to not do homework because it isn't graded, that's on them and will rightfully show up in their test scores. But for those who do complete it, the teacher should be providing the correct answers and helping students go over things they missed with sufficient time before testing them on the material. I assume this particular teacher was relying on the homework assignments and students coming to them for corrections/review.

Personally, I think homework doesn't have to be "graded" per se; but homework COMPLETION should be a % of their quarterly grades. I don't buy into the equity argument against homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Homework is not graded b/c classes are too big and teachers don't have time to grade all of it.

That's not the reason. It's APS policy under the argument of "equity." They say grading homework isn't equitable because not all students (ie poor minority) have the same parental support or help with homework, that (poor minority) students don't have time for homework because they have to take care of younger siblings and/or work etc. BS. Those truths extend across socioeconomic classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Homework is not graded b/c classes are too big and teachers don't have time to grade all of it.

No. That's why they say they don't give writing assignments, but not about homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My question is -- how do colleges know how to weigh one school system vs another if one county allows retakes, which allows a B student to try for a A, and another doesn't? GPA is meaningless in these situations.

They know school reputations. They also have some GPA weighting system of their own. And for those who accept test scores, there's that. They also look at courses taken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the reason homework is not graded because parents do the homework?

No. It's been described as an equity issue. It's also why now grades in a class are skewed such that Summative assessments (i.e. tests) have far more weight than Formative (i.e. homework). APS doesn't want to disadvantage kids with home lives that aren't conducive to doing homework. Examples such as limited internet access, need to watch younger family members or hold after school jobs, and so on.

But when kids aren't getting their quiz grades back before a test, they have zero graded feedback. I greatly dislike the change.

That isn't the fault of the policy change. That's the teacher's fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

Don't entirely agree.

For objecting to the timing of the change, I mean.

Don't entirely agree, I mean.

They are implementing the new policy at the end of the second quarter. First and second semester grades are already done with the previous retake policy. Students know now, starting third quarter, that they may not be able to do retakes or multiple retakes. They may have to up their game and change their tactics or get the grades they would have gotten under normal circumstances before the ridiculous multiple retake free-for-all policy was implemented in the first place. Seems to me, they've been given a big advantage for half the year and now they get to see how they do without the bonus advantage.

[Anonymous]

I just told DS, and he didn't know. Hopefully they'll tell the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is the reason homework is not graded because parents do the homework?

No. It's been described as an equity issue. It's also why now grades in a class are skewed such that Summative assessments (i.e. tests) have far more weight than Formative (i.e. homework). APS doesn't want to disadvantage kids with home lives that aren't conducive to doing homework. Examples such as limited internet access, need to watch younger family members or hold after school jobs, and so on.

But when kids aren't getting their quiz grades back before a test, they have zero graded feedback. I greatly dislike the change.

That isn't the fault of the policy change. That's the teacher's fault.

Right. But the retake policy filled in the gaps. There are a lot of hard-working, homework completing kids who used to get a boost from Formative grades. My DC never stopped doing homework, but it's kind of discouraging that the kids who actually DO the work don't have that to help offset a one-off test that can tank their grade.