APS Retake Policy change announced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was the policy before? This email was really confusing (I have elementary school kids, so it's not immediately relevant to me, but I'm curious.)

Starting this year they had to offer retakes to anyone who wanted one.

Here is how I saw it play out with my student and what he reported.

Many students who didn’t get a 90 or above on the test took the retest just to see what would happen. They did not require remediation they just wanted an A. Results were typically not any better on the retake and often worse. Teachers had to write 2 tests instead of 1. So many kids doing retakes that it was taking up instructional days in tougher classes as so many kids wanted retakes they had to be offered during regular class time.

All in all a terrible policy in the first place.

In my kid’s experience there was remediation/review before retakes in his classes. The one time he’s retaken a test this year (9th grade), he started with a low B, studied a ton, and got a 100 on the retake. In classes with few tests/summatives per quarter, one test grade can make a big difference.

And I will say that when I was in college, if most people did poorly on a test, there weren’t retakes, but grades were curved. At least a kid has to make some effort to improve a grade via a retake.

[Anonymous]

I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

[Anonymous]

I agree it doesn't prep them for college in terms of the do-over, but APS's stated goal is for kids to learn the material. If a test is one and done they just move on. Few kids spend the time to review it. The retakes plus remediation were supposed to lead to kids going back over their test, doing corrections and studying more for a retake therefore leading to better understanding and knowledge of the material.

The only class my DC has needed to do this in is math. The teacher clearly hates it since it does require reviewing the remediation packet plus grading a whole second test. He also only does the retake during class, so the kids doing the retake miss out on whatever is being done that day and start by playing catchup in that next unit.

It's easy to say that means they should have learned it the first time, and maybe that's right. I have a DC who is working really hard but this particular combination of subject matter and teacher is causing a lot of struggle. The retakes cause stress but at least are providing impetus to keep trying.

In other classes teachers have already been telling kids that if they get a 93 or something they can't retake just to gun for a 99. An A is an A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree it doesn't prep them for college in terms of the do-over, but APS's stated goal is for kids to learn the material. If a test is one and done they just move on. Few kids spend the time to review it. The retakes plus remediation were supposed to lead to kids going back over their test, doing corrections and studying more for a retake therefore leading to better understanding and knowledge of the material.

The only class my DC has needed to do this in is math. The teacher clearly hates it since it does require reviewing the remediation packet plus grading a whole second test. He also only does the retake during class, so the kids doing the retake miss out on whatever is being done that day and start by playing catchup in that next unit.

It's easy to say that means they should have learned it the first time, and maybe that's right. I have a DC who is working really hard but this particular combination of subject matter and teacher is causing a lot of struggle. The retakes cause stress but at least are providing impetus to keep trying.

In other classes teachers have already been telling kids that if they get a 93 or something they can't retake just to gun for a 99. An A is an A.

This was my child's experience in a hard math class too. In the end, he decided to mentally tell himself no retakes and just nail the first test and do the prep. The retakes got him in this awful cycle of overlapping units and missing content to do retakes and was stressful. When he buckled down he started getting the grades he wanted on the first test.

I can see how much work it is for the teacher too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What was the policy before? This email was really confusing (I have elementary school kids, so it's not immediately relevant to me, but I'm curious.)

Starting this year they had to offer retakes to anyone who wanted one.

Here is how I saw it play out with my student and what he reported.

Many students who didn’t get a 90 or above on the test took the retest just to see what would happen. They did not require remediation they just wanted an A. Results were typically not any better on the retake and often worse. Teachers had to write 2 tests instead of 1. So many kids doing retakes that it was taking up instructional days in tougher classes as so many kids wanted retakes they had to be offered during regular class time.

All in all a terrible policy in the first place.

In my kid’s experience there was remediation/review before retakes in his classes. The one time he’s retaken a test this year (9th grade), he started with a low B, studied a ton, and got a 100 on the retake. In classes with few tests/summatives per quarter, one test grade can make a big difference.

And I will say that when I was in college, if most people did poorly on a test, there weren’t retakes, but grades were curved. At least a kid has to make some effort to improve a grade via a retake.

I think the remediation and effort given was so all over the place too. My DD had a teacher just have her correct her wrong answers. That was the retake. Another teacher just gave the same test again. Math teacher's remediation was simply proving you'd done all the work leading up to the test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1

Test corrections/retakes have helped my kids fill the gaps and learn more. They will be better prepared for college because they will understand the content better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

In the case of a failed test they’d still get to retake under the policy changes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

In the case of a failed test they’d still get to retake under the policy changes

But can only get up to an 80.

I think this gets rid of the A hunting pretty effectively but attempts to allow for genuine remediation when needed.

[Anonymous]

This will lead to strategic behavior where kids who want As will be incentivized to do poorly on tests if they think they won't get an A on the test. For example, if you are taking a math test with 10 questions and you think you may get 2 wrong, you should answer several more incorrectly so that you get a retest.

[Anonymous]

I think the best way of doing remediation for middle and high school for certain subjects is to have comprehensive mid-terms and finals and tell kids those tests will determine 100% of their grade if that helps them. That way kids have to learn all the material, but kids would not want to bank on that. It does not work well in classes like English though where there are essay tests and it is hard for those to be comprehensive. But with calculus, if you learned it by the end of the year that is all that should matter IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This will lead to strategic behavior where kids who want As will be incentivized to do poorly on tests if they think they won't get an A on the test. For example, if you are taking a math test with 10 questions and you think you may get 2 wrong, you should answer several more incorrectly so that you get a retest.

It doesn't, because the highest they can get now is an A.

I do appreciate the idea that a grade should reflect actual knowledge and that if you get an A you get an A even if it was based on a retake, but this system was absolutely untenable for teachers and really encouraged procrastination on the part of the students. Thank goodness for the change.

Although is a teacher allowed to maintain her practice of the original policy? I think a teacher should able able to do that if she wants to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This will lead to strategic behavior where kids who want As will be incentivized to do poorly on tests if they think they won't get an A on the test. For example, if you are taking a math test with 10 questions and you think you may get 2 wrong, you should answer several more incorrectly so that you get a retest.

It doesn't, because the highest they can get now is an A.

I do appreciate the idea that a grade should reflect actual knowledge and that if you get an A you get an A even if it was based on a retake, but this system was absolutely untenable for teachers and really encouraged procrastination on the part of the students. Thank goodness for the change.

Although is a teacher allowed to maintain her practice of the original policy? I think a teacher should able able to do that if she wants to.

Wow that was very wrong, I meant the highest they can get is an 80.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

Your son should check in with that teacher ASAP! Maybe the teacher can still do that for your son or he can switch out of his class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The retakes were at lunch

Teachers made two tests for sick kids too

In our school they were not at lunch. Lunch isn’t enough time to take the test. It’s a lot shorter than a class period.

Ours were either class time or after school.

And kids should eat!