APS Retake Policy change announced

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is the FCPS policy. At least it is in my kids’ classes. I don’t understand though… are people upset that the max score is 80?? I’ve always thought this was generous.

I don’t think anyone is upset. They just changed the policy mid year with short notice.

At least they gave notice.
Lots of non-academic rules and policy changes at our school without any public notification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

Is this pertaining to quizzes or exams? Or is it both?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree it doesn't prep them for college in terms of the do-over, but APS's stated goal is for kids to learn the material. If a test is one and done they just move on. Few kids spend the time to review it. The retakes plus remediation were supposed to lead to kids going back over their test, doing corrections and studying more for a retake therefore leading to better understanding and knowledge of the material.

The only class my DC has needed to do this in is math. The teacher clearly hates it since it does require reviewing the remediation packet plus grading a whole second test. He also only does the retake during class, so the kids doing the retake miss out on whatever is being done that day and start by playing catchup in that next unit.

It's easy to say that means they should have learned it the first time, and maybe that's right. I have a DC who is working really hard but this particular combination of subject matter and teacher is causing a lot of struggle. The retakes cause stress but at least are providing impetus to keep trying.

In other classes teachers have already been telling kids that if they get a 93 or something they can't retake just to gun for a 99. An A is an A.

This is what "final exams" used to be. Final exams now seem not to necessarily be a test covering the entire semester/year like they were when I was in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

In the case of a failed test they’d still get to retake under the policy changes

But can only get up to an 80.

I think this gets rid of the A hunting pretty effectively but attempts to allow for genuine remediation when needed.

I think this is fair. Students should be able to have some way to distinguish themselves more for college applications. Students who catch on more quickly to material and master the skills right away = As. Those who aren't quite as quick at learning some concepts or take longer = B. Depending on the nature of work, as an employer, I'd like to know which one the applicant is; as a professor/academic advisor, I'd like to know to help the student choose the best-fitting classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

Is this pertaining to quizzes or exams? Or is it both?

DP. Summative means tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This will lead to strategic behavior where kids who want As will be incentivized to do poorly on tests if they think they won't get an A on the test. For example, if you are taking a math test with 10 questions and you think you may get 2 wrong, you should answer several more incorrectly so that you get a retest.

No.
Kids generally aren't striving to do more work. And they often don't 'know' how they did unless they just didn't answer certain questions. Only a student who is utterly unprepared for a particular test would possibly even consider doing that.

What the policy change does is incentivizes the A student who is actually a B student to do better the first time, and eliminates the A student who gets one B+ from wasting the teacher's time with "remediation? for a B+?" and re-administering the test. The policy change is, appropriately, geared toward the average ane below average students, and students who struggle for various reasons -- an opportunity to boost them up, develop better skills and confidence and knowledge, and have a better shot for life post-high school. Everybody doesn't - and shouldn't - have to have an A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

I see this but also am guessing the teachers were very vocal and this was a real problem for many of them. I can see why administration felt the need to address this mid-year. I would work with an individual teacher if you had a previous conversation with an individual teacher.

The real lesson is don't do this stuff without talking to the teachers and the people on the ground. Bad policy making process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

Is this pertaining to quizzes or exams? Or is it both?

DP. Summative means tests.

So in the above example, perhaps more quizzes along the way would have been beneficial to assess the student's understanding and need for reviewing mistakes with the teacher prior to the test. Math is a subject that warrants frequent evaluation and check-ins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

I see this but also am guessing the teachers were very vocal and this was a real problem for many of them. I can see why administration felt the need to address this mid-year. I would work with an individual teacher if you had a previous conversation with an individual teacher.

The real lesson is don't do this stuff without talking to the teachers and the people on the ground. Bad policy making process.

+1
Also, sometimes a well-meaning and even a well-thought policy turns out to not work in practice. And when said policy is such a disaster, quick course correction is the right thing to do!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

DP here and I would assume yes, which is a completely legitimate reason for objecting to the change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

I see this but also am guessing the teachers were very vocal and this was a real problem for many of them. I can see why administration felt the need to address this mid-year. I would work with an individual teacher if you had a previous conversation with an individual teacher.

The real lesson is don't do this stuff without talking to the teachers and the people on the ground. Bad policy making process.

+1
Also, sometimes a well-meaning and even a well-thought policy turns out to not work in practice. And when said policy is such a disaster, quick course correction is the right thing to do!

If this is what happened I’m happy that they are listening to teachers and responding quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

+1. This is the stated aim of the policy. Understand completely what the negatives are, and especially why it's unpopular with some teachers. It's the changing of it halfway through a school year that should not be allowed. There are kids, mine included, who made a decision to stay in a class instead of dropping it, partly because of this policy - in fact it was his teacher who pointed it out and encouraged him to stay. That decision impacts the entire school year. Fine if you want to change this - can definitely see pros and cons. But what other policy has APS ever approved in June for the following school year and then changed halfway through?

So your issue with the mid-year change is that your kid might not be able to get an A in the class now?

No. He was probably destined for a B anyway. My issue is that grading policies should not change halfway through a school year. This is particularly impactful for juniors. There is nothing in the original policy implementation document from June that said APS would assess after first semester and reserve the right to change it at any time.

Have to assume you are the parent of a straight A student based on this remark. Would you be okay if halfway through the school year they made, say, a different policy change -- maybe one that changed the grading scale and lowered GPA's for the second half of a school year? Probably not. The merits of grading scales and policies can and should be argued. But once they are approved, they should not be changed in the middle of a school year.

[Anonymous]

I’m not opposed to this new policy because I’ve heard the teens in the back of my car talk about how they’re not worried about such and such test because they know they can just do a retake and get an A/B later. Between that and allowing late work, etc. we are not setting these kids up for success when they get out into the “real world“. I really wish Arlington public schools would take a hard look at the lack of execution executive functioning skills they are instilling in these children. If you look on your school, PTA FB pages, Arlington education matters, etc. it’s such a common theme that kids struggle with this. Why doesn’t Arlington do something to address it? They talk about the whole child, but this is a huge gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked the policy. My senior failed 2 calculus tests initially, went over the mistakes with his teacher, studied again with a better knowledge, and got As. He wouldn't have mastered the content without the opportunity.

Is this pertaining to quizzes or exams? Or is it both?

DP. Summative means tests.

So in the above example, perhaps more quizzes along the way would have been beneficial to assess the student's understanding and need for reviewing mistakes with the teacher prior to the test. Math is a subject that warrants frequent evaluation and check-ins.

I'm the PP. Yes, more quizzes would have been better, but there are none in his class. Just 3 tests per quarter. And homework which is not graded (completion only) and is only due the day before the test. That is not how you learn calculus well. The retakes filled in the teaching gaps.