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Evangelization Vs. Proselytization
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Anonymous
Do you believe the unborn baby isn’t alive until God breathes a soul into his or her body at 120 days? It does matter what you believe. We know an unborn baby is alive from conception. It’s scientifically confirmed that a baby is alive from conception. If you believe a baby isn’t alive from conception, that’s scientifically incorrect. Babies are alive and growing before 120 days. Babies are alive from conception. |
Anonymous
You think talking about religion is like talking about specific sexual acts, as you explained it. Why do you come to a forum specifically about religion if discussing religion is so uncomfortable and personal to you? |
Anonymous
We aren’t talking about religious beliefs—you know nothing about mine, and I know nothing about yours. We are discussing the propriety of accosting people on the street to talk about religious beliefs. |
Anonymous
If something cannot exist on its own, it's not alive. A 4-week fetus is not alive. It's closer to a parasite, than a human being - it cannot exist without being completely physically dependent on a female human being. That is a fact. That is science. But it's clear you live in a delusional world of "I don't proselytize, but my faith is right and everyone should follow it" |
Anonymous
Bs and no life does not begin at fertilization . The PP post above is religious garbage not science |
Anonymous
The life cycle of mammals begins when a sperm enters an egg.” Okada et al., A role for the elongator complex in zygotic paternal genome demethylation, NATURE 463:554 (Jan. 28, 2010) “Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.” Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012) The oviduct or Fallopian tube is the anatomical region where every new life begins in mammalian species. After a long journey, the spermatozoa meet the oocyte in the specific site of the oviduct named ampulla, and fertilization takes place.” Coy et al., Roles of the oviduct in mammalian fertilization, REPRODUCTION 144(6):649 (Oct. 1, 2012) (emphasis added). “Fertilization – the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism – is the culmination of a multitude of intricately regulated cellular processes.” Marcello et al., Fertilization, ADV. EXP. BIOL. 757:321 (2013). National Institutes of Health, Medline Plus Merriam-Webster Medical Dictionary (2013). “The government’s own definition attests to the fact that life begins at fertilization. According to the National Institutes of Health, ‘fertilization’ is the process of union of two gametes (i.e., ovum and sperm) ‘whereby the somatic chromosome number is restored and the development of a new individual is initiated.'” Steven Ertelt “Undisputed Scientific Fact: Human Life Begins at Conception, or Fertilization” LifeNews.com 11/18/13 “Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoon) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).” Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2. In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.” Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974. An embryology textbook describes how birth is just an event in the development of a baby, not the beginning of his/her life: “It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.” F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi “It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.” Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30 “Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.” The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1 The fetus is the same type of organism as the mother. Parasites are different organisms which latch on to another species, causing it harm. Parasites are not where they belong, but the preborn child is precisely where it is supposed to be. The natural changes that take place in the woman’s body to make room for this new little human do not damage her body. Although there may be challenges in being pregnant, they are in no way legitimately comparable to the damage and harm a parasite does to another organism. Women are able to receive health benefits from the natural, temporary changes that take place in her body. Dr. Frazale Rana, Ph.D, states the following: “Instead of being passive tissue that absorbs available nutrients from the mother, the placenta dynamically distributes nutrients between mother and fetus, optimally ensuring the health of both mother and developing baby… [by] receiv[ing] metabolic signals from both the mother and fetus and respond[ing] to this input by regulating the nutrient amounts made available to the fetus.” For many years, it was thought that pregnant women have suppressed immune function, but a review paper published by an OBGYN specializing in Reproductive Immunology discusses how this dated viewpoint is not scientifically correct. “Therefore, it is appropriate to refer to pregnancy as a unique immune condition that is modulated, but not suppressed…Therefore, pregnancy should not imply more susceptibility to infectious diseases, instead there is a modulation of the immune system which leads to differential responses depending not only on the microorganisms, but on the stages of the pregnancy.” Additionally, fetal stem cells are known to travel to sites of damage or injury in the mother, and mothers with a weakened heart, for example, get fetal stem cells which travel to their hearts and turn into cardiac cells, helping strengthen the mother’s heart. In contrast, the parasitic latching on to another organism does not help the host and there is no mutual sharing of benefits. Finally, the relationship of the preborn to the mother is a healthy, beneficial, and natural one. That is not true of a parasitic relationship. As Dr. Staff aptly points out, “It all boils down to the fact that parent and child have a common goal: the child’s survival. Host and parasite, on the other hand, have a fundamental disagreement about the desirability of the parasite’s survival.” Speaking about parasites, the Center for Disease Control makes a notable distinction between the preborn and parasites stating “Pregnant women often need special consideration when being treated for parasitic diseases in order to avoid harm to the fetus, especially during the first trimester.” https://humandefense.com/babies-are-not-parasites/ |
Anonymous
Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote." [England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31] "Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception). "Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being." [Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2] "Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus." [Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.] "Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus." [Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146] "Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy." [Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160] "The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote." [Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3] "Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life." [Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943] "I would say that among most scientists, the word 'embryo' includes the time from after fertilization..." [Dr. John Eppig, Senior Staff Scientist, Jackson Laboratory (Bar Harbor, Maine) and Member of the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 31] "The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote." [Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3] "The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down." [Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63] "Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote." [Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1] "The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development." [Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17] "Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity." [O'Rahilly, Ronan and M�ller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}] "Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual." [Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3] "[A]nimal biologists use the term embryo to describe the single cell stage, the two-cell stage, and all subsequent stages up until a time when recognizable humanlike limbs and facial features begin to appear between six to eight weeks after fertilization.... "[A] number of specialists working in the field of human reproduction have suggested that we stop using the word embryo to describe the developing entity that exists for the first two weeks after fertilization. In its place, they proposed the term pre-embryo.... "I'll let you in on a secret. The term pre-embryo has been embraced wholeheartedly by IVF practitioners for reasons that are political, not scientific. The new term is used to provide the illusion that there is something profoundly different between what we nonmedical biologists still call a six-day-old embryo and what we and everyone else call a sixteen-day-old embryo. "The term pre-embryo is useful in the political arena -- where decisions are made about whether to allow early embryo (now called pre-embryo) experimentation -- as well as in the confines of a doctor's office, where it can be used to allay moral concerns that might be expressed by IVF patients. 'Don't worry,' a doctor might say, 'it's only pre-embryos that we're manipulating or freezing. They won't turn into real human embryos until after we've put them back into your body.'" [Silver, Lee M. Remaking Eden: Cloning and Beyond in a Brave New World. New York: Avon Books, 1997, p. 39] https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html You are absolutely incorrect, it is agreed upon life begins at conception. How do you not know this? |
Anonymous
Congrats, you can copy and paste. It doesn't mean you understand science. I'm done feeding this proselytizing extremist troll. |
Anonymous
Where are you getting your information from that life doesn’t begin at conception? Can you dispute the above scientists/biologists? Their information is documented and sourced. |
Anonymous
Do you understand the difference between a "life cycle" and something being alive? Can you explain it, in your own words? |
Anonymous
Every moment of a human's life is contained in one or other of the life stages. The combined series of these stages is called the life cycle. Can you explain why every biologist/scientist is wrong and you are correct in stating that a baby isn’t alive until it is 120 days old and God breathes into it? |
Anonymous
You didn't answer my question. I'll answer yours, when you answer mine. Can you explain in your own words, what the difference is between being alive, and a "life cycle?" |
Anonymous
Why don’t you tell me the difference? What is a Life Cycle? A life cycle is a series of changes that an organism will go through throughout its life, marked by significant stages starting with fertilization and ending with death. The cycle of life is unique to all organisms, and overall stages can change based on the species. |
Anonymous
We are in a forum that is specifically for discussion of religion. Why are you here if it’s not proper to discuss religion? Wouldn’t you avoid this place? |
Anonymous
Yeah, you still can't answer the question. Precisely why evangelical and proselytizing Christians get (rightfully) criticized. They like to talk a big talk, but can never provide substance or reciprocal consideration for religious freedom.They just talk in nonsensical, non-dialogue circles. Peace out. |