Evangelization Vs. Proselytization

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy solution: If you don't want to be criticized for your beliefs/actions, then keep your religion to yourself. And stay TF away from vulnerable people.

This x1000.

Don't evangelize OR proselytize. If you do, don't complain about criticism or judgment. If you don't want criticism and judgment, keep your religion to yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly I didn’t care enough to read every word of your exceedingly long post. I will sum up my concerns in a concise manner—are you trying to make me take time out of my day to listen to you talk about your religion? If so, stop it. Evangelizing or proselytizing, it is unwanted and will never endear your faith to me.

Sorry, but we are blessed to have basic human rights in our country.

I am not in your presence and I didn’t push your finger to click on this thread, you chose to do so. How are you being made to read this thread?

You made a choice to come to a religious forum, where people post about religion. Maybe you should not come to a religious forum if you don’t like religion., or people talking about religion.

It’s nonsensical to do so, and then claim to be victimized by “proselytizing.”

I didn't claim that you were proselytizing by posting this thread. I am explaining my feelings towards people who approach me--on the street, ringing my doorbell, etc. My point is that people who feel as I do don't care about semantics. We just don't want to be asked to take time from our day to listen to a monologue from someone who has a very certain point of view. If I want to learn more about a particular religion, I will take a class on it (and I have).

Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cherishes religious freedom.
People who do those things are legally and morally allowed to do so.

Are you the poster that had a very extreme reaction to having their doorbell rung by religious people? I think in that thread, a thread about realtors putting flyers in people’s mailboxes about selling their homes was referenced from the real estate forum. It was rationally explained by many posters (and not religious posters) that people who have extreme anxiety and an outsized need to control society have issues they need to deal with.

We all encounter minor annoyances and opinions that counter our own. Our desire to silence other opinions because we don’t like them runs counter to everything our country was built upon. It is unnatural in America to wish to silence other citizens, and legally, not going to happen. We live in a free society.

I am not that poster and don't know the thread you are referring to. I did not say that people are not legally or morally forbidden to do these things. What I am trying to convey is that doing these things has the exact opposite effect that proselytizers/evangelists/whatever you want to call it desire. I assume that the desire is to interest other people in the given religion. However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.

However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.[u] [i]

You are not alone in your feelings about this subject. However, your feelings don’t negate our laws and freedoms.

I went with my daughter’s girl scout troop when girl scouts went d2d to sell cookies, years ago. Some people were hateful directly to the young girls I chaperoned because they dared knock on their door and politely asked if they (the resident) would like to buy a box of cookies?

It is very hard to believe, but lots of people were angry because the girl scouts knocked on their door and interrupted them. It was disturbing. If someone has such a strong reaction to contact with people in their community, they may want to live somewhere with less or no people.

Once again, for those in the back: no one on this thread has suggested that anyone should be legally prohibited from annoying other people, be it via proselytizing or cookie selling. But your rights also don’t negate our feelings, which are negative, due to your behavior. We don’t have to look kindly upon your activity.

You also don’t get to define it. Christians condemn proselytizing and believe only God can change a person into a Christian.

Who are you speaking for when you say “we?” An organization?

Like I said, I don’t care what you call it. I don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger. When I say we I am referring to the people on this thread who have written +1 to my post, indicating that this behavior also annoys them.

I care what I call it because it’s based upon what God has instructed us to do. He didn’t say to threaten people or bribe people to become a Christian. Implying Christians do that is insulting and factually incorrect. Doing those things are wrong and condemned. Do you have an experience where a Christian missionary threatened you or bribed you to become Christian?

There are lots of annoying things in our society, but trying to stop people from practicing their religion because you don’t like people talking to you or ringing your doorbell is wrong. You don’t get to control people. You say no thanks and forget about it.

Really the worst people become enraged when they realized girl scouts were at their door. I didn’t think people in modern, polite society would be so awful to little girls selling cookies, but boy was I wrong.

Umm...nowhere on this thread did I say anyone "threatened or bribed" me. Why are you setting up straw men that can be so easily disproven?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly I didn’t care enough to read every word of your exceedingly long post. I will sum up my concerns in a concise manner—are you trying to make me take time out of my day to listen to you talk about your religion? If so, stop it. Evangelizing or proselytizing, it is unwanted and will never endear your faith to me.

Sorry, but we are blessed to have basic human rights in our country.

I am not in your presence and I didn’t push your finger to click on this thread, you chose to do so. How are you being made to read this thread?

You made a choice to come to a religious forum, where people post about religion. Maybe you should not come to a religious forum if you don’t like religion., or people talking about religion.

It’s nonsensical to do so, and then claim to be victimized by “proselytizing.”

I didn't claim that you were proselytizing by posting this thread. I am explaining my feelings towards people who approach me--on the street, ringing my doorbell, etc. My point is that people who feel as I do don't care about semantics. We just don't want to be asked to take time from our day to listen to a monologue from someone who has a very certain point of view. If I want to learn more about a particular religion, I will take a class on it (and I have).

Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cherishes religious freedom.
People who do those things are legally and morally allowed to do so.

Are you the poster that had a very extreme reaction to having their doorbell rung by religious people? I think in that thread, a thread about realtors putting flyers in people’s mailboxes about selling their homes was referenced from the real estate forum. It was rationally explained by many posters (and not religious posters) that people who have extreme anxiety and an outsized need to control society have issues they need to deal with.

We all encounter minor annoyances and opinions that counter our own. Our desire to silence other opinions because we don’t like them runs counter to everything our country was built upon. It is unnatural in America to wish to silence other citizens, and legally, not going to happen. We live in a free society.

I am not that poster and don't know the thread you are referring to. I did not say that people are not legally or morally forbidden to do these things. What I am trying to convey is that doing these things has the exact opposite effect that proselytizers/evangelists/whatever you want to call it desire. I assume that the desire is to interest other people in the given religion. However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.

However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.[u] [i]

You are not alone in your feelings about this subject. However, your feelings don’t negate our laws and freedoms.

I went with my daughter’s girl scout troop when girl scouts went d2d to sell cookies, years ago. Some people were hateful directly to the young girls I chaperoned because they dared knock on their door and politely asked if they (the resident) would like to buy a box of cookies?

It is very hard to believe, but lots of people were angry because the girl scouts knocked on their door and interrupted them. It was disturbing. If someone has such a strong reaction to contact with people in their community, they may want to live somewhere with less or no people.

Once again, for those in the back: no one on this thread has suggested that anyone should be legally prohibited from annoying other people, be it via proselytizing or cookie selling. But your rights also don’t negate our feelings, which are negative, due to your behavior. We don’t have to look kindly upon your activity.

You also don’t get to define it. Christians condemn proselytizing and believe only God can change a person into a Christian.

Who are you speaking for when you say “we?” An organization?

Like I said, I don’t care what you call it. I don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger. When I say we I am referring to the people on this thread who have written +1 to my post, indicating that this behavior also annoys them.

If you don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger, why are you in an online religion forum discussing religion with a stranger?

You're right, I apologize. Let me correct myself--I don't want to be given a lecture by a stranger about how great their religion is.
And I began my participation in this thread to let OP know that whatever term s/he wants to use, being buttonholed in public to hear someone pontificate about religion will lead to a negative response in some people. The idea that "oh, it's evangelizing, not proselytizing, so you should be fine with it" is laughable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Proselytize has multiple definitions:
To try to convert someone, especially to one's religion
To persuade someone to do or join something, especially by offering an inducement
To recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
To try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group

Yes you have the constitutional right to do all of that. You can have a different definition, but arguing over definitions is silly.

And since you told me your God is an awesome god, I will respond by saying there is no evidence he exists, and that is a good thing, because the god of the bible is a freaking horrible monster, in my opinion.

Happy to continue the exchange, if you wish.

Christians do not proselytize and condemn the practice. You aren’t a Christian so why are you defining what Christians do? You state you think the God of the Bible is a monster, so you clearly view Christianity and Judaism in a negative way. You aren’t objective at all and wish to argue with me about my religion, and I have no desire to take the thread off topic and start a debate about God, or Christians, or Jewish people, or how you dislike our religions.

Why do you come to a forum about religion? To argue and debate people who are religious, and tell them their God is a monster? It seems you want to convert people who believe in God to atheism, or to believe in your God?

Originally, the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament passed the word "proselyte" into modern languages with a neutral meaning. It simply meant a convert, someone who changed his or her opinion or religion. And, proselytism meant the attempt to persuade someone to make such a change. But, today proselytism is almost universally seen as a sinister activity when it comes to religious beliefs. That is why it must be made clear that Christians do not proselytize.

It is sin to use any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic.

Proselytizing means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others. As you have caricatured Christians and Jews as people who believe in a “monster,” it would be like me saying people who don’t believe in God are “monsters,” and that’s not what God has instructed us to do.

What are your beliefs about insulting religious people? Is that something your parents raised you to do, or is it a practice you have decided to embrace on your own?

Are you anti-Semitic, as you believe the God of the Bible is a monster?

[Anonymous]

Proselytize/Evangelize

Potatoe/Potahto

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly I didn’t care enough to read every word of your exceedingly long post. I will sum up my concerns in a concise manner—are you trying to make me take time out of my day to listen to you talk about your religion? If so, stop it. Evangelizing or proselytizing, it is unwanted and will never endear your faith to me.

Sorry, but we are blessed to have basic human rights in our country.

I am not in your presence and I didn’t push your finger to click on this thread, you chose to do so. How are you being made to read this thread?

You made a choice to come to a religious forum, where people post about religion. Maybe you should not come to a religious forum if you don’t like religion., or people talking about religion.

It’s nonsensical to do so, and then claim to be victimized by “proselytizing.”

I didn't claim that you were proselytizing by posting this thread. I am explaining my feelings towards people who approach me--on the street, ringing my doorbell, etc. My point is that people who feel as I do don't care about semantics. We just don't want to be asked to take time from our day to listen to a monologue from someone who has a very certain point of view. If I want to learn more about a particular religion, I will take a class on it (and I have).

Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cherishes religious freedom.
People who do those things are legally and morally allowed to do so.

Are you the poster that had a very extreme reaction to having their doorbell rung by religious people? I think in that thread, a thread about realtors putting flyers in people’s mailboxes about selling their homes was referenced from the real estate forum. It was rationally explained by many posters (and not religious posters) that people who have extreme anxiety and an outsized need to control society have issues they need to deal with.

We all encounter minor annoyances and opinions that counter our own. Our desire to silence other opinions because we don’t like them runs counter to everything our country was built upon. It is unnatural in America to wish to silence other citizens, and legally, not going to happen. We live in a free society.

I am not that poster and don't know the thread you are referring to. I did not say that people are not legally or morally forbidden to do these things. What I am trying to convey is that doing these things has the exact opposite effect that proselytizers/evangelists/whatever you want to call it desire. I assume that the desire is to interest other people in the given religion. However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.

However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.[u] [i]

You are not alone in your feelings about this subject. However, your feelings don’t negate our laws and freedoms.

I went with my daughter’s girl scout troop when girl scouts went d2d to sell cookies, years ago. Some people were hateful directly to the young girls I chaperoned because they dared knock on their door and politely asked if they (the resident) would like to buy a box of cookies?

It is very hard to believe, but lots of people were angry because the girl scouts knocked on their door and interrupted them. It was disturbing. If someone has such a strong reaction to contact with people in their community, they may want to live somewhere with less or no people.

Once again, for those in the back: no one on this thread has suggested that anyone should be legally prohibited from annoying other people, be it via proselytizing or cookie selling. But your rights also don’t negate our feelings, which are negative, due to your behavior. We don’t have to look kindly upon your activity.

You also don’t get to define it. Christians condemn proselytizing and believe only God can change a person into a Christian.

Who are you speaking for when you say “we?” An organization?

Like I said, I don’t care what you call it. I don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger. When I say we I am referring to the people on this thread who have written +1 to my post, indicating that this behavior also annoys them.

If you don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger, why are you in an online religion forum discussing religion with a stranger?

You're right, I apologize. Let me correct myself--I don't want to be given a lecture by a stranger about how great their religion is.
And I began my participation in this thread to let OP know that whatever term s/he wants to use, being buttonholed in public to hear someone pontificate about religion will lead to a negative response in some people. The idea that "oh, it's evangelizing, not proselytizing, so you should be fine with it" is laughable.

Proselytism in its present meaning includes inducing people by offering them any kind of assistance, such as food, education, shelter or clothing. In each of these cases, proselytism is wrong because it does not respect the freedom of the other. However, while these methods of making converts is sinful, inviting others to the fullness of truth is not only not wrong but is truly an act of love.

There is nothing funny about people who disparage other people’s religion based on falsehoods and stereotypes.

You have strong feelings about how Christians talk to people in public, what are they based on? Has a Christian ever lectured you in public about Christianity? How did they stop you from leaving the lecture? Did they physically stop you from walking away? Did a group of Christians surround you and tell you they would not allow you to go anywhere until you listened to their prayers or convert to Christianity? Did they lure you into an alley and then block both exits and then preach to you until you could escape?

No one has answered how they have been forced by Christians or any religious group to listen to what they have to say. There is no religious group in America that makes people listen to them speak about their religion. That’s crazy to even suggest. That doesn’t happen.

[Anonymous]

OP seems unfamiliar with the general definitions that are widely used, including on DCUM.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proselytize
intransitive verb
1: to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2: to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/evangelize
transitive verb
1: to preach the gospel to
2: to convert to Christianity
intransitive verb
: to preach the gospel

Mormons systematically proselytize
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/05/19/mormon-land-ever-evolving/
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/magazine/how-to-proselytize.html

If people weren't "proselytizing" then people all over the world wouldn't be concerned about it
https://apnews.com/article/israel-netanyahu-christians-evangelicals-proselytizing-217563437f499aec3d865e2f009ddac9
https://www.ncronline.org/news/evangelicals-vatican-reach-accord-proselytizing
https://www.brigada.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/OSAC-Proselytizing-Report-Country-List.pdf

OP, you should expand your vocabulary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proselytize has multiple definitions:
To try to convert someone, especially to one's religion
To persuade someone to do or join something, especially by offering an inducement
To recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
To try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group

Yes you have the constitutional right to do all of that. You can have a different definition, but arguing over definitions is silly.

And since you told me your God is an awesome god, I will respond by saying there is no evidence he exists, and that is a good thing, because the god of the bible is a freaking horrible monster, in my opinion.

Happy to continue the exchange, if you wish.

Christians do not proselytize and condemn the practice. You aren’t a Christian so why are you defining what Christians do? You state you think the God of the Bible is a monster, so you clearly view Christianity and Judaism in a negative way. You aren’t objective at all and wish to argue with me about my religion, and I have no desire to take the thread off topic and start a debate about God, or Christians, or Jewish people, or how you dislike our religions.

Why do you come to a forum about religion? To argue and debate people who are religious, and tell them their God is a monster? It seems you want to convert people who believe in God to atheism, or to believe in your God?

Originally, the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament passed the word "proselyte" into modern languages with a neutral meaning. It simply meant a convert, someone who changed his or her opinion or religion. And, proselytism meant the attempt to persuade someone to make such a change. But, today proselytism is almost universally seen as a sinister activity when it comes to religious beliefs. That is why it must be made clear that Christians do not proselytize.

It is sin to use any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic.

Proselytizing means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others. As you have caricatured Christians and Jews as people who believe in a “monster,” it would be like me saying people who don’t believe in God are “monsters,” and that’s not what God has instructed us to do.

What are your beliefs about insulting religious people? Is that something your parents raised you to do, or is it a practice you have decided to embrace on your own?

Are you anti-Semitic, as you believe the God of the Bible is a monster?

lies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly I didn’t care enough to read every word of your exceedingly long post. I will sum up my concerns in a concise manner—are you trying to make me take time out of my day to listen to you talk about your religion? If so, stop it. Evangelizing or proselytizing, it is unwanted and will never endear your faith to me.

Sorry, but we are blessed to have basic human rights in our country.

I am not in your presence and I didn’t push your finger to click on this thread, you chose to do so. How are you being made to read this thread?

You made a choice to come to a religious forum, where people post about religion. Maybe you should not come to a religious forum if you don’t like religion., or people talking about religion.

It’s nonsensical to do so, and then claim to be victimized by “proselytizing.”

I didn't claim that you were proselytizing by posting this thread. I am explaining my feelings towards people who approach me--on the street, ringing my doorbell, etc. My point is that people who feel as I do don't care about semantics. We just don't want to be asked to take time from our day to listen to a monologue from someone who has a very certain point of view. If I want to learn more about a particular religion, I will take a class on it (and I have).

Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cherishes religious freedom.
People who do those things are legally and morally allowed to do so.

Are you the poster that had a very extreme reaction to having their doorbell rung by religious people? I think in that thread, a thread about realtors putting flyers in people’s mailboxes about selling their homes was referenced from the real estate forum. It was rationally explained by many posters (and not religious posters) that people who have extreme anxiety and an outsized need to control society have issues they need to deal with.

We all encounter minor annoyances and opinions that counter our own. Our desire to silence other opinions because we don’t like them runs counter to everything our country was built upon. It is unnatural in America to wish to silence other citizens, and legally, not going to happen. We live in a free society.

I am not that poster and don't know the thread you are referring to. I did not say that people are not legally or morally forbidden to do these things. What I am trying to convey is that doing these things has the exact opposite effect that proselytizers/evangelists/whatever you want to call it desire. I assume that the desire is to interest other people in the given religion. However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.

However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.[u] [i]

You are not alone in your feelings about this subject. However, your feelings don’t negate our laws and freedoms.

I went with my daughter’s girl scout troop when girl scouts went d2d to sell cookies, years ago. Some people were hateful directly to the young girls I chaperoned because they dared knock on their door and politely asked if they (the resident) would like to buy a box of cookies?

It is very hard to believe, but lots of people were angry because the girl scouts knocked on their door and interrupted them. It was disturbing. If someone has such a strong reaction to contact with people in their community, they may want to live somewhere with less or no people.

Once again, for those in the back: no one on this thread has suggested that anyone should be legally prohibited from annoying other people, be it via proselytizing or cookie selling. But your rights also don’t negate our feelings, which are negative, due to your behavior. We don’t have to look kindly upon your activity.

You also don’t get to define it. Christians condemn proselytizing and believe only God can change a person into a Christian.

Who are you speaking for when you say “we?” An organization?

Like I said, I don’t care what you call it. I don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger. When I say we I am referring to the people on this thread who have written +1 to my post, indicating that this behavior also annoys them.

I care what I call it because it’s based upon what God has instructed us to do. He didn’t say to threaten people or bribe people to become a Christian. Implying Christians do that is insulting and factually incorrect. Doing those things are wrong and condemned. Do you have an experience where a Christian missionary threatened you or bribed you to become Christian?

There are lots of annoying things in our society, but trying to stop people from practicing their religion because you don’t like people talking to you or ringing your doorbell is wrong. You don’t get to control people. You say no thanks and forget about it.

Really the worst people become enraged when they realized girl scouts were at their door. I didn’t think people in modern, polite society would be so awful to little girls selling cookies, but boy was I wrong.

Umm...nowhere on this thread did I say anyone "threatened or bribed" me. Why are you setting up straw men that can be so easily disproven?

Because OP is full of crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly I didn’t care enough to read every word of your exceedingly long post. I will sum up my concerns in a concise manner—are you trying to make me take time out of my day to listen to you talk about your religion? If so, stop it. Evangelizing or proselytizing, it is unwanted and will never endear your faith to me.

Sorry, but we are blessed to have basic human rights in our country.

I am not in your presence and I didn’t push your finger to click on this thread, you chose to do so. How are you being made to read this thread?

You made a choice to come to a religious forum, where people post about religion. Maybe you should not come to a religious forum if you don’t like religion., or people talking about religion.

It’s nonsensical to do so, and then claim to be victimized by “proselytizing.”

I didn't claim that you were proselytizing by posting this thread. I am explaining my feelings towards people who approach me--on the street, ringing my doorbell, etc. My point is that people who feel as I do don't care about semantics. We just don't want to be asked to take time from our day to listen to a monologue from someone who has a very certain point of view. If I want to learn more about a particular religion, I will take a class on it (and I have).

Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cherishes religious freedom.
People who do those things are legally and morally allowed to do so.

Are you the poster that had a very extreme reaction to having their doorbell rung by religious people? I think in that thread, a thread about realtors putting flyers in people’s mailboxes about selling their homes was referenced from the real estate forum. It was rationally explained by many posters (and not religious posters) that people who have extreme anxiety and an outsized need to control society have issues they need to deal with.

We all encounter minor annoyances and opinions that counter our own. Our desire to silence other opinions because we don’t like them runs counter to everything our country was built upon. It is unnatural in America to wish to silence other citizens, and legally, not going to happen. We live in a free society.

I am not that poster and don't know the thread you are referring to. I did not say that people are not legally or morally forbidden to do these things. What I am trying to convey is that doing these things has the exact opposite effect that proselytizers/evangelists/whatever you want to call it desire. I assume that the desire is to interest other people in the given religion. However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.

However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.[u] [i]

You are not alone in your feelings about this subject. However, your feelings don’t negate our laws and freedoms.

I went with my daughter’s girl scout troop when girl scouts went d2d to sell cookies, years ago. Some people were hateful directly to the young girls I chaperoned because they dared knock on their door and politely asked if they (the resident) would like to buy a box of cookies?

It is very hard to believe, but lots of people were angry because the girl scouts knocked on their door and interrupted them. It was disturbing. If someone has such a strong reaction to contact with people in their community, they may want to live somewhere with less or no people.

Once again, for those in the back: no one on this thread has suggested that anyone should be legally prohibited from annoying other people, be it via proselytizing or cookie selling. But your rights also don’t negate our feelings, which are negative, due to your behavior. We don’t have to look kindly upon your activity.

So you don’t look kindly upon freedom of religion, speech, or the press, or the right of freedom of peaceful assembly?

Why do you not look kindly upon those things?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Frankly I didn’t care enough to read every word of your exceedingly long post. I will sum up my concerns in a concise manner—are you trying to make me take time out of my day to listen to you talk about your religion? If so, stop it. Evangelizing or proselytizing, it is unwanted and will never endear your faith to me.

Sorry, but we are blessed to have basic human rights in our country.

I am not in your presence and I didn’t push your finger to click on this thread, you chose to do so. How are you being made to read this thread?

You made a choice to come to a religious forum, where people post about religion. Maybe you should not come to a religious forum if you don’t like religion., or people talking about religion.

It’s nonsensical to do so, and then claim to be victimized by “proselytizing.”

I didn't claim that you were proselytizing by posting this thread. I am explaining my feelings towards people who approach me--on the street, ringing my doorbell, etc. My point is that people who feel as I do don't care about semantics. We just don't want to be asked to take time from our day to listen to a monologue from someone who has a very certain point of view. If I want to learn more about a particular religion, I will take a class on it (and I have).

Unfortunately for you, we live in a country that cherishes religious freedom.
People who do those things are legally and morally allowed to do so.

Are you the poster that had a very extreme reaction to having their doorbell rung by religious people? I think in that thread, a thread about realtors putting flyers in people’s mailboxes about selling their homes was referenced from the real estate forum. It was rationally explained by many posters (and not religious posters) that people who have extreme anxiety and an outsized need to control society have issues they need to deal with.

We all encounter minor annoyances and opinions that counter our own. Our desire to silence other opinions because we don’t like them runs counter to everything our country was built upon. It is unnatural in America to wish to silence other citizens, and legally, not going to happen. We live in a free society.

I am not that poster and don't know the thread you are referring to. I did not say that people are not legally or morally forbidden to do these things. What I am trying to convey is that doing these things has the exact opposite effect that proselytizers/evangelists/whatever you want to call it desire. I assume that the desire is to interest other people in the given religion. However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.

However, when people accost me to tell me about their religion, rather than interest me, it engenders a negative opinion of the religion, as it's quite intrusive.

On the flip side, I find other religions, ones whose adherents do not inconvenience me, to be intriguing, and I am more likely to seek out information on those religions.[u] [i]

You are not alone in your feelings about this subject. However, your feelings don’t negate our laws and freedoms.

I went with my daughter’s girl scout troop when girl scouts went d2d to sell cookies, years ago. Some people were hateful directly to the young girls I chaperoned because they dared knock on their door and politely asked if they (the resident) would like to buy a box of cookies?

It is very hard to believe, but lots of people were angry because the girl scouts knocked on their door and interrupted them. It was disturbing. If someone has such a strong reaction to contact with people in their community, they may want to live somewhere with less or no people.

Once again, for those in the back: no one on this thread has suggested that anyone should be legally prohibited from annoying other people, be it via proselytizing or cookie selling. But your rights also don’t negate our feelings, which are negative, due to your behavior. We don’t have to look kindly upon your activity.

You also don’t get to define it. Christians condemn proselytizing and believe only God can change a person into a Christian.

Who are you speaking for when you say “we?” An organization?

Like I said, I don’t care what you call it. I don’t want to discuss religion with a stranger. When I say we I am referring to the people on this thread who have written +1 to my post, indicating that this behavior also annoys them.

I care what I call it because it’s based upon what God has instructed us to do. He didn’t say to threaten people or bribe people to become a Christian. Implying Christians do that is insulting and factually incorrect. Doing those things are wrong and condemned. Do you have an experience where a Christian missionary threatened you or bribed you to become Christian?

There are lots of annoying things in our society, but trying to stop people from practicing their religion because you don’t like people talking to you or ringing your doorbell is wrong. You don’t get to control people. You say no thanks and forget about it.

Really the worst people become enraged when they realized girl scouts were at their door. I didn’t think people in modern, polite society would be so awful to little girls selling cookies, but boy was I wrong.

Umm...nowhere on this thread did I say anyone "threatened or bribed" me. Why are you setting up straw men that can be so easily disproven?

Because OP is full of crap.

No, op is making it clear that Christians do not proselytize.

And not one person has said they were ever forced to listen to a religious person from any religion talk about their religion, so how are religious people forcing you or anyone else to listen to them much less convert to their religion?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proselytize has multiple definitions:
To try to convert someone, especially to one's religion
To persuade someone to do or join something, especially by offering an inducement
To recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
To try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group

Yes you have the constitutional right to do all of that. You can have a different definition, but arguing over definitions is silly.

And since you told me your God is an awesome god, I will respond by saying there is no evidence he exists, and that is a good thing, because the god of the bible is a freaking horrible monster, in my opinion.

Happy to continue the exchange, if you wish.

Christians do not proselytize and condemn the practice. You aren’t a Christian so why are you defining what Christians do? You state you think the God of the Bible is a monster, so you clearly view Christianity and Judaism in a negative way. You aren’t objective at all and wish to argue with me about my religion, and I have no desire to take the thread off topic and start a debate about God, or Christians, or Jewish people, or how you dislike our religions.

Why do you come to a forum about religion? To argue and debate people who are religious, and tell them their God is a monster? It seems you want to convert people who believe in God to atheism, or to believe in your God?

Originally, the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament passed the word "proselyte" into modern languages with a neutral meaning. It simply meant a convert, someone who changed his or her opinion or religion. And, proselytism meant the attempt to persuade someone to make such a change. But, today proselytism is almost universally seen as a sinister activity when it comes to religious beliefs. That is why it must be made clear that Christians do not proselytize.

It is sin to use any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic.

Proselytizing means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others. As you have caricatured Christians and Jews as people who believe in a “monster,” it would be like me saying people who don’t believe in God are “monsters,” and that’s not what God has instructed us to do.

What are your beliefs about insulting religious people? Is that something your parents raised you to do, or is it a practice you have decided to embrace on your own?

Are you anti-Semitic, as you believe the God of the Bible is a monster?

lies

Can you explain where the lies are in this post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP seems unfamiliar with the general definitions that are widely used, including on DCUM.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proselytize
intransitive verb
1: to induce someone to convert to one's faith
2: to recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
transitive verb
: to recruit or convert especially to a new faith, institution, or cause

https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/evangelize
transitive verb
1: to preach the gospel to
2: to convert to Christianity
intransitive verb
: to preach the gospel

Mormons systematically proselytize
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/05/19/mormon-land-ever-evolving/
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/19/magazine/how-to-proselytize.html

If people weren't "proselytizing" then people all over the world wouldn't be concerned about it
https://apnews.com/article/israel-netanyahu-christians-evangelicals-proselytizing-217563437f499aec3d865e2f009ddac9
https://www.ncronline.org/news/evangelicals-vatican-reach-accord-proselytizing
https://www.brigada.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/OSAC-Proselytizing-Report-Country-List.pdf

OP, you should expand your vocabulary.

The meaning of the word proselytism has changed over time. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament passed the word ‘proselyte’ into modern languages with a neutral meaning. It simply meant a convert, someone who changed his or her opinion or religion. And, proselytism meant the attempt to persuade someone to make such a change. But, today proselytism is almost universally seen as a sinister activity when it comes to religious beliefs.

The use of coercion of any kind today described as proselytism is always wrong and to be condemned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proselytize has multiple definitions:
To try to convert someone, especially to one's religion
To persuade someone to do or join something, especially by offering an inducement
To recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
To try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group

Yes you have the constitutional right to do all of that. You can have a different definition, but arguing over definitions is silly.

And since you told me your God is an awesome god, I will respond by saying there is no evidence he exists, and that is a good thing, because the god of the bible is a freaking horrible monster, in my opinion.

Happy to continue the exchange, if you wish.

Christians do not proselytize and condemn the practice. You aren’t a Christian so why are you defining what Christians do? You state you think the God of the Bible is a monster, so you clearly view Christianity and Judaism in a negative way. You aren’t objective at all and wish to argue with me about my religion, and I have no desire to take the thread off topic and start a debate about God, or Christians, or Jewish people, or how you dislike our religions.

Why do you come to a forum about religion? To argue and debate people who are religious, and tell them their God is a monster? It seems you want to convert people who believe in God to atheism, or to believe in your God?

Originally, the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament passed the word "proselyte" into modern languages with a neutral meaning. It simply meant a convert, someone who changed his or her opinion or religion. And, proselytism meant the attempt to persuade someone to make such a change. But, today proselytism is almost universally seen as a sinister activity when it comes to religious beliefs. That is why it must be made clear that Christians do not proselytize.

It is sin to use any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic.

Proselytizing means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others. As you have caricatured Christians and Jews as people who believe in a “monster,” it would be like me saying people who don’t believe in God are “monsters,” and that’s not what God has instructed us to do.

What are your beliefs about insulting religious people? Is that something your parents raised you to do, or is it a practice you have decided to embrace on your own?

Are you anti-Semitic, as you believe the God of the Bible is a monster?

lies

Can you explain where the lies are in this post?

Christians proselytize. Mormons have a whole industry around it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Proselytize has multiple definitions:
To try to convert someone, especially to one's religion
To persuade someone to do or join something, especially by offering an inducement
To recruit someone to join one's party, institution, or cause
To try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group

Yes you have the constitutional right to do all of that. You can have a different definition, but arguing over definitions is silly.

And since you told me your God is an awesome god, I will respond by saying there is no evidence he exists, and that is a good thing, because the god of the bible is a freaking horrible monster, in my opinion.

Happy to continue the exchange, if you wish.

Christians do not proselytize and condemn the practice. You aren’t a Christian so why are you defining what Christians do? You state you think the God of the Bible is a monster, so you clearly view Christianity and Judaism in a negative way. You aren’t objective at all and wish to argue with me about my religion, and I have no desire to take the thread off topic and start a debate about God, or Christians, or Jewish people, or how you dislike our religions.

Why do you come to a forum about religion? To argue and debate people who are religious, and tell them their God is a monster? It seems you want to convert people who believe in God to atheism, or to believe in your God?

Originally, the Greek Septuagint translation of the Old Testament passed the word "proselyte" into modern languages with a neutral meaning. It simply meant a convert, someone who changed his or her opinion or religion. And, proselytism meant the attempt to persuade someone to make such a change. But, today proselytism is almost universally seen as a sinister activity when it comes to religious beliefs. That is why it must be made clear that Christians do not proselytize.

It is sin to use any type of pressure to convert someone, whether it is moral, political or economic.

Proselytizing means caricaturing with unfair criticism the beliefs of others. As you have caricatured Christians and Jews as people who believe in a “monster,” it would be like me saying people who don’t believe in God are “monsters,” and that’s not what God has instructed us to do.

What are your beliefs about insulting religious people? Is that something your parents raised you to do, or is it a practice you have decided to embrace on your own?

Are you anti-Semitic, as you believe the God of the Bible is a monster?

lies

Can you explain where the lies are in this post?

Christians proselytize. Mormons have a whole industry around it.

Mormons are not who I am speaking about, I don’t know what Mormons do.

Christianity does not allow for proselytizing and considers it a sin.